Rear Wheel - Spokes

[Stan464]

Hi All.


New to forums, couldn't see anyone with the same issue. from what I could see anyway.

Just need some advice on a Rear Wheel conversion... On the way home yesterday I noticed the rear wheel with some pretty bad wobble. it turns out the spoke nuts (Between tire rim and hub) most were all loose. I tightened them resolving the issue for the most part.

1) Is this normal?
2) 2 Spokes in random places have lost there nuts entirely. Is this a major?
3) what may of caused this?

Even now there is a slight noise issue from the wheel (not motor) but it is sturdy at the moment.


Conversion Kit is about 1.2 months old.


Thanks All <3

 

[Nealh]

Poorly built/tensioned wheel originally if part of a kit.
Tbh you will be best to get the wheel rebuilt or retrued and tensioned correctly as the issue will return.
The missing spoke nipples will have made their way in to the rim, if a double walled rim they will be stuck possibly between the two walls and may cause rattles as they move around (if not wedged in place). These two missing nipples means no tension on those two spokes and adds stress to the others.

So in answer to your Q's.
1. Generally no but some kit wheel builds are poor.
2. Yes.
3. As in #1, poorly built wheel.

 

[Stan464]

Poorly built/tensioned wheel originally if part of a kit.
Tbh you will be best to get the wheel rebuilt or retrued and tensioned correctly as the issue will return.
The missing spoke nipples will have made their way in to the rim, if a double walled rim they will be stuck possibly between the two walls and may cause rattles as they move around (if not wedged in place). These two missing nipples means no tension on those two spokes and adds stress to the others.

Yeah.

I was afraid of that being the case. Appreciate the fast response on this.

I have tightened them for now but i may need to look at a different mode of transport (only travelling 4.5 miles daily) so will need to grab a new bike or conversion kit possibly.


Thanks Kindly

 

[Nealh]

It doesn't need a new kit or wheel, the wheel simply needs rebuilding or someone to replace/find the missing nipples (they aren't lost but somewhere within the rim) the wheel then once trued and tensioned correctly might be ok.
Often 13g sppokes are used and they tend not to be very good with hub built wheels so a rebuild using 14g spoke works very well.
The wheel needs removing and the tyre/tube & rim tape removed to find them, then they can be screwed back on to the spokes.

 

[Nealh]

If you say where approx. you live, some one may be able to suggest someone to look at your wheel to retrue and tension it.

You yourself can retrue and tension the wheel on the bike within reason once the loose nipples are found and re ftitted. All you need is a cable tie, a spoke key and if one wishes a tensionometer ( some simply use their ears and pluck the spokes for tone) and a means to have the bike supended above the ground.
Attach said cable tie to one side of the bike stay, postion (rotate) the wheel so at the point of the cable tie it sits centrally between the stays. Cut the cable tie end to length so it just touches the rim edge, if one wishes mark this rim point with a marrker pen for a start place (I usually like to start at the valve so make sure this sits centrally in the between the stays and is my start point).

Rotate the wheel and at every other spoke on that side of the rim see if the rim touch's the cable tie end, if it does and bends/moves the tie the spoke is too tight so it will need undoing (if said spoke is already loose or not tight) then the opposing spoke opposite needs tightening.
Or if the spoke doesn't touch the tie end then it may need that spoke tightening to pull the rim over, as well as tightening that spoke the opposing one on the other side may need undoing.

It may take an hour or so and some practice & patience but in time one will soon learn whether a spoke on a certain side and at a certain point needs a 1/4 , 1/2 or 1 turn to move the rim either too or away from the cable tie reference point. To a degree one will be able to get the wheel pretty well within 1mm of true and then can gently use small turns of 1/8 to fine tune the wheel. Plucking the spokes like a guitar string will give a nice ping tone and they should all be similar and dull notes means the spoke isn't tight enough.

There is no real dark art to buiding wheels nor is there too truing them, patience is the most vital element. Remembering half of the spokes feed to one side of the rim and the other half to the other side.

 

[Stan464]

Hi Neal!.

I appreciate the time and expertise and appreciate the guidance thanks man.

I live in NI. I'm near a bike shop if needs be.

Ill run through your guide and see if I can re-true the wheel. it felt much better than yesterday so tightening (as a stop gap) has helped and ill take some time to do fine tuning. Ill need to buy replacement nuts really and see if I can fetch the lost one-s in the wheel.


(assuming id need to let the tire down as it would be underneath innertube? somewhere??


Thanks Kindly

 

[Nealh]

Yes one will have to remove the wheel from the bike, remove the tyre, inner tube and the rim tape covering the spoke holes. Most rim now are double walled so have a void inside where the nipples sit, the lost nipples will be within this void and can be teased out when found.
Have ago your self anf if no joy see if your LBS can help out, I find truing wheels one of the satisfying jobs and once one can reasonably manage it, it becomes another skill gained. I tend to do mine with the radio on with relaxing music.
You have already managed to tighten them and get it back to rideable so once the lsot nipples re fitted one only has to do the slower methodical process of tightening or loosening the nipple to ove the rim slightly. Don't expect to get the rim correct first time, one may need to go around the wheel 2 or 3 times making small adjustments on both sides.

Several years ago I was in your postion then bit the bullet and started to have ago doing my own, one soon learns what to tighten and how the tightning or loosening of a nipple moves the rim away or to you. Generall I now I can lace and tru a rim in approx. an hour.

 

[Stan464]

Everyday is learning day man! thanks!.

Ill take some time out the weekend to take a look. Just felt it was just a strange thing to happen to begin with!


Again, really appreciate the time spent on explanation and suchlike! thanks <3

 

[Sturmey]

When you remove the tube, with the valve hole downwards, the nipples can be shaken down and poked out.

 

[Stan464]

When you remove the tube, with the valve hole downwards, the nipples can be shaken down and poked out.

I was hoping that would be the case! Thanks!

 

[Nealh]

A lot of china wheel kits are poorly tensioned, the issue isn't uncommon.

 

[sjpt]

It sounds as if yours was particularly bad to be that wrong in just over a month. Several things can have come together to contribute.

As mentioned above, one problem is that once one spoke is a bit wrong it puts extra strain on the others.

Rough usage (eg bouncing off pavements) and a heavy rider.

Electric hubs are larger than conventional ones which means shorter spokes which can cause more issues, especially if the wheel uses an inappropriate spoke pattern.

The motor can put extra (and different) stress on the spokes which means a wheel build that would be fine for a regular bike might have issues with a motor.

Cheap high powered direct drive wheels are likely to be the worst. Lower quality build, large hub so shorter spokes, more motor stress, etc. (You didn't mention what sort of kit and where from).

Anyway, as Nealh says, you should be able to get it working again with some careful tensioning and truing. Once you have the knack a few minutes checking every few weeks or so should keep it good.

 

[Nealh]

A good built motor hub wheel is as good as a non motor wheel, I build all my own wheels front and rear motored & hub geared . I have used them offroad in places where I never or rarely see mtb's and haven't suffered wheel issues.
I decided to learn wheel building following a similar incident to Stan's. on a ride my kit hub wheel lost all tension the rim was all over he place, i was able to keep retightening spokes to get me home. the next day I stripped the wheel down, checked the ERD and use a spoke calc on line. I ordered new 14g spokes and replaced the 13g ones Sapim strongs for proper and better built wheel.

Hub wheeled ebikes might not be the best for fast rough downhil or enduro riding but for all other types of off road riding they will go where a mid drive bike can go.

 

[Stan464]

Appreciate all the Pointers.

For those curious of the Type, Size, and such like. 26" and Voilamart style Rear Wheel conversion.

As for contributing factors. good shout! as the Bike is Steel, I'm not ultra thin for my height. so this certainly could of been the cause or at least the start of it.

I will look at upgrading spokes if i can find the right type/size.


There is a few nasty bumps i tend to not be able to avoid. IE: a shitty road. but for the most part. its pretty smooth for (90% of the 2.5 mile Journey One way.


Thanks All! <3