Rear wheel puncture

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
164
One option is that riders who have held their licence since (I think) 2002 can ride on L plated indefinately.

I'm afraid not. I had a very frustrating time with this, and found out the idiosyncrasies of the law on the subject. If you've held a car license since 2002 that gives you automatic entitlement to a moped , (up to 50cc, max 30mph), without any need for L plates or a further test.

It also acts as a provisional license for a motorbike up to 125cc, but you then need to take a CBT, and that only lasts for 2 years while you complete the other tests, or you then need to retake it.

During that two years, you are expected to then take the motorbike theory test and part one and two practical tests. If you don't manage to pass the part two within two years of getting the CBT, you have to start all over again, with the full set.

Like someone already said on this thread, the law now really discourages new motorcyclists, especially old fat people like me that just wanted to do 35-40 mph on a bike that is slightly more powerful than a moped, and isn't being constantly buffeted by cars passing at 40mph. :mad:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,221
30,619
If you've held a car license since 2002 that gives you automatic entitlement to a moped , (up to 50cc, max 30mph), without any need for L plates or a further test.
Not quite. The car driving licence must have been obtained before 1st February 2001 for the licence to pre-qualify for a 30 mph moped.

Look on the car driving licence licence, a qualifying one will show category P on it, but those where the test was passed after 1st February 2001 have the P with the code 122 next to it. This means a CBT must be taken first.
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
164
Not quite. The car driving licence must have been obtained before 1st February 2001 for the licence to pre-qualify for a 30 mph moped.

Look on the car driving licence licence, a qualifying one will show category P on it, but those where the test was passed after 1st February 2001 have the P with the code 122 next to it. This means a CBT must be taken first.
Yes, my mistake Flec, I was being lazy and just quoting the date that EE gave, as I knew it was 2001 or 2002.

Anyhow, no-one can ride a motorbike on L plates forever without taking the CBT every two years, (at around £100 a go).
 

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
The Honda Vision 110 is a good shout. Honda quality for £1800 new on the road, complete with 2 years road rescue (I guess they're very confident you won't need this). It has bigger wheels than most scooters - those little wheels are bad for stability and terrible for potholes.
I need something practical for carrying items, as it will be my only transport. The SYM Combiz 125 looks ideal apart from the 10" wheels.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
I wanted to see if it would reach terminal velocity before hitting the river Cherwell! I have thought of stripping it for parts, the battery, charger, throttle, controller, display, lights, indicators, horn and security alarm + all the wiring are all in working order. I don't know about the spindle on the motor wheel. The frame has quite a bit of corrosion though. I used the bike in all weathers and on gritted roads, carrying heavy items on dodgy road surfaces, and it was stored outside under a cover. It had a hard life!

I want to get a 125cc scooter instead. I had a free lesson on one and I enjoyed it.
Aren't you going to go for an electric scooter then Synthman? I guess petrol is a lot cheaper to buy than electric ones and more practical for the distances?
 

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
Aren't you going to go for an electric scooter then Synthman? I guess petrol is a lot cheaper to buy than electric ones and more practical for the distances?
I've thought about getting an electric scooter, but I've got many reasons why not:

Range and speed is significantly lower than petrol scooters.
Lengthy charge times, maybe double that of our ebikes.
Can't remove the batteries to charge indoors.
Many mechanics not willing to work on them.
Many of them fail the 1st MOT.
Availability of spare parts.

The cost difference isn't so much. The lower end models are in the £400-£1000 region, the same as petrol scooters. There are more expensive ones too. It looks like they are more expensive to insure though.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
I've thought about getting an electric scooter, but I've got many reasons why not:

Range and speed is significantly lower than petrol scooters.
Lengthy charge times, maybe double that of our ebikes.
Can't remove the batteries to charge indoors.
Many mechanics not willing to work on them.
Many of them fail the 1st MOT.
Availability of spare parts.

The cost difference isn't so much. The lower end models are in the £400-£1000 region, the same as petrol scooters. There are more expensive ones too. It looks like they are more expensive to insure though.
Good points.. unless you're doing it for environmental reasons then or only using it for very short distance, I guess it makes sense to go for petrol when you start thinking about longer term running costs and maintenance.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,221
30,619
The cost difference isn't so much. The lower end models are in the £400-£1000 region, the same as petrol scooters. There are more expensive ones too. It looks like they are more expensive to insure though.
The cheaper ones are generally gutless low motor wattage types, very slow on any hill. They need at least 4500 watt setups to be any use, but they tend to be the dearer ones. Petrol scooters make far more practical and economic sense.
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
164
Petrol scooters make far more practical and economic sense.

Yes, I tried a high power electric one three years ago, an EVT4000E, a full blown 48v road legal scooter with vehicle approval and everything.

I added it as a gallery to my profile, at eHomer's Album: EVT4000E 48v electric scooter


I only kept it a short while because it only had a range of about 20 miles, and it weighed more than the 125cc Yamaha motorbike that I had at the time !

It was fitted with four 12v 60ah AGM batteries, that weighed 120 kgs !!


The road tax was "free", but the MOT (£30), and the insurance (about £90) was exactly the same as a petrol scooter, so the saving was only £15 a year for the tax ( £16 now).

evt5.jpg
 

electric_avenue

Pedelecer
Aug 13, 2011
80
4
Chorlton, Manchester
I need something practical for carrying items, as it will be my only transport. The SYM Combiz 125 looks ideal apart from the 10" wheels.
how much are they, I can't see one for sale anywhere? Those baby wheels are nasty though, I really wouldn't recommend it. The vision also has the space under the seat which is a decent size, and you can fit a top box of course.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Yes, I tried a high power electric one three years ago, an EVT4000E, a full blown 48v road legal scooter with vehicle approval and everything.

I added it as a gallery to my profile, at eHomer's Album: EVT4000E 48v electric scooter


I only kept it a short while because it only had a range of about 20 miles, and it weighed more than the 125cc Yamaha motorbike that I had at the time !

It was fitted with four 12v 60ah AGM batteries, that weighed 120 kgs !!


The road tax was "free", but the MOT (£30), and the insurance (about £90) was exactly the same as a petrol scooter, so the saving was only £15 a year for the tax ( £16 now).

View attachment 4725
That's a nice looking scooter! Shame about the limited range. 120kg of batteries and only 20 miles!!? How fast did it go, or was it restricted to the 30mph limit?

I've just looked up those batteries out of interest. They're bloody expensive at £150 EACH.. so that's £600 replacement cost if it had four of them. Saying that, they do come with 4 year warranty and the newer ones are 70Ah. I wonder how the cost of petrol for a similar speed scooter would compare to the £150 a year running cost (plus the electric of course) of those batteries.
 
Last edited:

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
how much are they, I can't see one for sale anywhere? Those baby wheels are nasty though, I really wouldn't recommend it. The vision also has the space under the seat which is a decent size, and you can fit a top box of course.
They are available to buy in the UK but I haven't checked if my local dealer has them. The price is £1999. The main selling point is the 41cm floorboard where large items can be put, as well as the rear seat which lifts up revealing more space to strap items.



All the other bikes I were interested would require more accessories, like a front/rear rack which would raise the price quite a bit. The only scooter I've ridden is a Honda Dylan 125, which has 13" wheels. They can be got quite cheaply on the used market but they don't have a flat floorboard.

As for the topbox, my current bike came with one fitted. It didn't last 2 weeks, came off when I went over a speed hump. I would always be paranoid about using one now!
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
164
I wonder how the cost of petrol for a similar speed scooter would compare to the £150 a year running cost (plus the electric of course) of those batteries.
You've hit the nail on the head there Morphix, That particular combination of AGM batteries with their predicted number of charge cycles and life makes it a very heavy overhead per mile.


It would comfortably do 30mph, just like a petrol moped, but not much more except downhill/following wind etc..

The batteries were definitely its Achilles Heel, but all that was available then.

I remember when I sold it via Ebay, the buyer came to pick it up in an estate car and was surprised when I said I'd need to take the batteries out after he'd tried it out for us to lift it into his car.

He the tried to lift it and thought it was bolted down !

It would be quite a different proposition now with a good complement of Lithium batteries, much lighter and longer range. Still very heavily made though, compared with a Pedelec.

With the same insurance and MOT costs as a petrol scooter, it's no wonder that they were never popular. There would have to be much greater government inducements than "free" road tax that just saves £16 a year.
 
Last edited:

GaRRy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 18, 2012
1,019
3
Tamworth
They are available to buy in the UK but I haven't checked if my local dealer has them. The price is £1999. The main selling point is the 41cm floorboard where large items can be put, as well as the rear seat which lifts up revealing more space to strap items.
Not totally sure but I doubt Mr Plod would be happy to see something sat on the floor board between your legs. Especially if as in picture it is not actually strapped down.
 

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
I've had more problems with the back tyre. It was completely flat earlier when I wanted to use the bike. I pumped it up and did about 6 miles on it. I had no issues on the several short journeys I made but I checked the tyre as I put the bike away afterwards and it had lost a small amount of pressure.

The bike hadn't been used for several days. I will have to check my battery charge record to see when the last time exactly was. It was unused for most of February because the brakes were useless, I only recently fitted the new front brake shoes myself and was hoping to get more use out of it.

If the leak doesn't get any worse then I don't mind leaving it, I will carry a small pump with me for longer journeys. If it gets worse then it will give me the inspiration to take the back wheel off myself to try and sort the servo brake out, as well as the tyre. I don't know if the loss of pressure is because I've been unlucky enough to run over something, or the cycle shop screwed up when they changed the tube?
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
If it gets worse then it will give me the inspiration to take the back wheel off myself to try and sort the servo brake out, as well as the tyre. I don't know if the loss of pressure is because I've been unlucky enough to run over something, or the cycle shop screwed up when they changed the tube?
It's worth having it apart and doing it yourself. Then you'll know and can see what the problems are.

I've just done a tyre overhaul - taken both Winter tyres off my Agattu and fitted Marathon Plus back again for Spring with proper Protek Max inner tubes which self-heal if you get a puncture. Whilst it was off I finally fitted a replacement chainguard and also new washers on the dropouts - fingers crossed looks much better and stopped slipping on tightening up. Tuned up all the brakes and gave it a proper post-Winter clean and it's looking / feeling great again. Really glad I've stopped putting it in to the LBS. It goes in with one issue and comes out with another :mad:. No punctures yet on either of my bikes.

Also decided to push on through and fit a new Marathon + MTB tyre to my front tubeless ready race rim on the Trek to match the one I fitted with d8veh to the hub motor wheel. The front one's an proper b*strd to seat tyres on and I keep thinking about changing it. Suffice to say it took me 30 minutes to get the tyre on that race rim and my hands have had a major workout, whereas the rear eBike rim was an absolute doddle.

Just take the bull by the horns and do it yerself :).
 

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
It's worth having it apart and doing it yourself. Then you'll know and can see what the problems are.
Well I had to make a 5 mile journey earlier, the tyre was flat when I uncovered the bike but I pumped it up. Carried 12kg of shopping on the way back too. The wheel got wet and when I arrived home I noticed a faint sound of air escaping around the valve stem. The valve is not angled like the one on the original tube and it is a very tight fit indeed to attach a pump. I never had to top it up since the tube was changed. I can only assume that either the person who fitted it put too much pressure on the valve when pumping it, or I've damaged it myself when putting a heavy lock chain through the back wheel. I always take great care when locking it but it's possible I misjudged it recently.

I reckon I could get the back wheel off easily. I've tried working on it before but had great difficulty aligning the wheel and doing the nuts up afterwards. I've also never changed a tube on a bicycle, only on a sack truck and I struggled with it. And I don't know what the problem is with the axle or nut threads that the LBS told me about.

As I need the bike for later, and the weekend I think I'll carry on topping it up before each journey. Next week I don't think I'll need it. I will have a word with the guys who worked on it last time and see if they're willing to change the tube and align the wheel in the dropout and do the nuts up for me after I work on the brakes myself.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
If you have Presta valves and don't have a valve cap on, then if the tip loosens a bit (or the brass nut which seats them to the rim comes loose) then you can easily lose air or damage them. Schrader ones ought to be fine, unless you've hauled on them with a very heavy chain and they've somehow developed a tiny hole. It's not that easy to do to be honest so maybe there's a small unrepaired hole somewhere. Just take the inner tube out.

Put some old clothes on (!). Get the wheel off as you did and release all the air. Compress on the tyre whilst pressing on the valve pin (schrader) or after unscrewing the top to loosen (Presta).

Pop 1 - 3 tyre levers (or the back of a spoon if you have none) under the rim about 3-4 inches apart so that the hooked end of the tyre lever can be held by slotting horizontally into a spoke. If you use 3 then by the time the third one hooks a spoke, the first will then likely fall out. Once the tyre starts coming free of the rim on one side, pop your fingers under it and run them round the rim. The tyre will slide clear of the rim.

Then turn the tyre so the valve is uppermost and push it up through the hole. Slide your fingers of the other hand in under the tyre, pull the valve up clear of the rim and just carefully tug the inner tube out. The tyre will still be on.

Then just fit another tube. It's dead easy - push it under the tyre so the valve slides in through the hole and feed the tube in under the tyre so it sits roughly in place. Then get your pump and pump a SMALL amount of air in so it just holds its shape.

Then all you need to do is push the side of the tyre you freed back onto the rim. Go round it until you get to the last bit. Then if it's tight put the wheel flat on the floor with the bit you've got left to re-seat furthest from you. Pop your knee on the middle somewhere (easy with a hub motor !). Grab the tyre from the back with fingers of both hands and use your thumbs to push AWAY from you against the rim. You can get almost any stubborn tyre back on this way but most are easy.

Likely won't take you more than 15-20mins even very 1st time unless you have an extremely tight tyre.

I reckon I could get the back wheel off easily. I've tried working on it before but had great difficulty aligning the wheel and doing the nuts up afterwards.
Do you have a derailleur ? Sounds like you may have horizontal dropouts like I have on my Agattu ? They slope downwards when the bike is upside down rather than the vertical dropouts which are cups you just drop the wheel back into. Horizontal dropouts are a b'stard at times. Trouble is that if there are wide slot dropouts and washers over the axle which have a lip that sits in the open end of the dropout (and help hold the wheel in the correct position), the washer threads wear they may need replacing. Otherwise your wheel will slip every time you try to tighten the nuts so you can never seem to get it to stay where you want it ... and when you do get it in it slips after a few miles.

The best way I found to seat the wheel is to loosely tighten the 'chain' side axle nuts until it's roughly where you want it. Then do the same on the other. If the wheel slips away from you when you're tightening up then you have a washer problem. Try to centralise the wheel in the dropouts - ignore any mudguard and the brakes. You can adjust the brakes later when the wheel is correctly seated (rim / V-brakes).

For doing the nuts up, just get an adjustable spanner, or the right sized one for the axle nuts you have and do both sides a little at a time till both sides hold where you want them. Then tighten remembering to turn the nuts the right way (it becomes second nature after a while - they're usually opposite ways to each other to tighten up !). If the wheel won't stay put then use one hand to pull it towards you as you tighten the other side.

Then adjust your brakes.

If someone has tried to tighten the axle nuts and started to screw them back on out of alignment the threads may be damaged. That's potentially more of an issue, but it's more likely the nuts got damaged than the axle !

My LBS couldn't sort my rear hub gear wheel aligment properly. I ended up doing it myself.... and replacing the washers to get the wheel to stop slipping and causing my gears to slip. 50Cycles sent me replacements for free.

Don't be put off by how hard it can seem the first couple of times. Once you do it you realize how easy it really was. It's just having to do stuff with no-one there to show you makes the learning process longer at first but in the end you'll save a load of money and time... and the (depressing) hasstle of having to keep patching and mending something you need for transport until you can get it to a shop.
 
Last edited:

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
They are Schrader valves. Regarding the dropout, I can't remember if it was downwards or not but there was at least an inch available to slide it backwards and forwards. No derailleur, just a freewheel on the side of the hub.

I will definitely get this sorted after the weekend. I will try and do the tube as well following your advice.