Rear Brake Improvement - Suggestions Please

Hi all. Just a quick question for those who may be in the know. I have a Wisper 705Se Works but the rear brakes have always seemed quite poor. I know rear brakes tend to be less efficient than the front brakes, but this doesn't seem to be very efficient at all. I have replaced brake pads a couple of times, set them using an alignment tool and regularly clean the rim. But still to no avail. This is a standard brake set up rather than, what I prefer, disk brakes. Anyone have an idea what I could try to improve this? Thanks

You should be able to lock up the rear quite easily(in the dry) on a decent rim brake. Maybe look to change to a different compound.

Is Koolstop still going ?, they always made good pads.

 

Other options might be to reroute the housing,to take a bit off the bend out it. or change the inner cable for something thicker and pre-stretched.

 

You could also look to replacing the entire wire/housing system. Jagwire or even shimano make brake kits that are all in one

Edited February 21, 20242 yr by AndyBike

Is this the second hand bike you bought? Maybe change the outer cable for low friction new, use stainless steel inner cable, make sure the rim is perfetly true, readjust and try again?

Is this the second hand bike you bought? Maybe change the outer cable for low friction new, use stainless steel inner cable, make sure the rim is perfetly true, readjust and try again?

 

Yes it is the second hand bike I purchased a little while ago. Its been fine with the exception of 'squealing' brakes which I sorted. But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was. I've just been looking at a stainless steel cable set for both front and rear. Would the Shimano Dura-Ace fit, or is that for a completely different type of system? I still don't get any notifications of any responses to my posts so have to log in from time to time to see what replies I get. Its so bloody annoying!

Yes it is the second hand bike I purchased a little while ago. Its been fine with the exception of 'squealing' brakes which I sorted. But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was. I've just been looking at a stainless steel cable set for both front and rear. Would the Shimano Dura-Ace fit, or is that for a completely different type of system? I still don't get any notifications of any responses to my posts so have to log in from time to time to see what replies I get. Its so bloody annoying!

 

A photo of what rear brakes you have might help forum members to suggest suggestions.

A photo of what rear brakes you have might help forum members to suggest suggestions.

 

Good afternoon. I don't have a camera or IPhone to be able to take a picture. However, I have attached a stock photo of the type of brakes fitted. Maybe this will help? Just to say I have today replaced the inner rear cable with a stainless steel spare I had in the garage and reset brake pads but still very much the same.

 

 

Good afternoon. I don't have a camera or IPhone to be able to take a picture. However, I have attached a stock photo of the type of brakes fitted. Maybe this will help? Just to say I have today replaced the inner rear cable with a stainless steel spare I had in the garage and reset brake pads but still very much the same.

 

 

[ATTACH=full]56537[/ATTACH]

 

A photo of the bike would be useful. Nearly all phones and tablets are capable of taking a photo, not just iPhones, and usually it's straightforward to copy one to a computer to upload if required, particularly if the phone has a removable memory card. If there is no removable memory card, transfer to a thumb drive is possible if the tablet or phone has OTG support. Perhaps call [mention=181]Wisper Bikes[/mention], or send him a PM?

Edited February 22, 20242 yr by guerney

You can judge friction in the cable by releasing the curved metal tube from its bracket thing as though removing the wheel, and then feeling how much force is needed to move the cable in each direction. It should be practically zero. Also try wiggling the brake arms to check for excessive resistance in their pivots, and check the brake lever too.

 

Those long brake arms give a mechanical advantage of about 3.5, so it should be possible to develop enough force for good braking.

 

Finally, or even first, when my inner gear cables fail, in most cases they go stiff and the cause is one broken strand at the handlebar end getting wound around the rest of it, and then jamming in the outer. So have a good look there too.

But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was.

 

If they were more efficient before, I suspect it's a gunge-related issue.

 

The V-brakes on my second hand bike were pretty bad, until I completely disasembled and cleaned them, lubricated, trued the wheels, replaced all inner and outer cables. Now they're really sharp.

There are so many things that could be wrong:

• The two arms are not vertical when the brake engages. Adjust with block spacers and washers.
  
• The arms don't move symmetrically. Adjust with the tension screws on the side.
  
• The rims are gunged up. Clean with petrol.
  
• The cable doesn’t move freely. Lubricate or replace. Also, see last point.
  
• The rim doesn’t run true. Re-tension the spokes.
  
• The pivots are gunged up. Remove the arms and grease the pivots.
  
• Wheel bearings are worn. Check the rim for sideways free-play.
  
• The cable and noodle are being constrained or hampered from free movement. Nothing must touch the noodle nor the last 6" of cable. Racks are the worst offenders.
  
• Outer cable is broken or squished somewhere. Check the whole length.
  

If I was going to bet, I'd go with the arms not vertical at the point of engagement and only one moves when you pull the brake lever, because that's what I see every time someone brings a bike with rim brakes to me.

 

That's all I can do because you've given us nothing to go on.

Edited February 22, 20242 yr by saneagle

Doesnt feel spongy at all at the lever does it ?.

 

if you pull on the lever several times in quick succession, you should feel the pads impacting the rim firmly, with a kind of a 'clacky' sound.

If

There are so many things that could be wrong:

• The two arms are not vertical when the brake engages. Adjust with block spacers and washers.
  
• The arms don't move symmetrically. Adjust with the tension screws on the side.
  
• The rims are gunged up. Clean with petrol.
  
• The cable doesn’t move freely. Lubricate or replace. Also, see last point.
  
• The rim doesn’t run true. Re-tension the spokes.
  
• The pivots are gunged up. Remove the arms and grease the pivots.
  
• Wheel bearings are worn. Check the rim for sideways free-play.
  
• The cable and noodle are being constrained or hampered from free movement. Nothing must touch the noodle nor the last 6" of cable. Racks are the worst offenders.
  
• Outer cable is broken or squished somewhere. Check the whole length.
  

If I was going to bet, I'd go with the arms not vertical at the point of engagement and only one moves when you pull the brake lever, because that's what I see every time someone brings a bike with rim brakes to me.

 

That's all I can do because you've given us nothing to go on.

If I may add one thing extra to your list, one thing I have come across twice lately is a problem with the 'rubber boots' stopping the brakes when the pads are worn down a bit.. The boots were made from a very hard pvc type material rather than the normal flexible rubber . In both cases, I simply cut off the boots. The bikes were made in Tunisia (Apollo)

 

I don't have a camera

 

It's useful to have a camera. You can buy one from a Cex shop for £1 or a little more, depending on what they have in stock in store, there are loads of Cex shops all over the UK (don't ask for directions ). Alternatively there's a £2.50 delivery fee if you order online. All of these cameras have a point and shoot auto mode. Two year warranty.

 

https://uk.webuy.com/search?categoryIds=948&categoryName=Cameras+-+Compact&sortBy=price_asc

 

Many of those older cameras use CF cards, which you can also order from Cex (50p and upwards) or ebay:

 

https://uk.webuy.com/search?stext=cf+card&sortBy=price_asc

 

Than all you'll need is a CF card reader for your PC or laptop, which at £3.33 could cost more than camera and memory card combined:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364593670168

 

Quite often, old cameras in particular will show up as an external hard drive when you plug them into the USB socket of a PC, in which case you won't need a card reader.

 

Avoid buying a cheap and old secondhand camera which doesn't use AA batteries.

Edited February 22, 20242 yr by guerney

Hi all. Just a quick question for those who may be in the know. I have a Wisper 705Se Works but the rear brakes have always seemed quite poor. I know rear brakes tend to be less efficient than the front brakes, but this doesn't seem to be very efficient at all. I have replaced brake pads a couple of times, set them using an alignment tool and regularly clean the rim. But still to no avail. This is a standard brake set up rather than, what I prefer, disk brakes. Anyone have an idea what I could try to improve this? Thanks

 

Hi Andy, we stopped using cable brakes many years ago, but there’s no reason these can’t be fixed. We stopped producing the Works models about 14 years ago so I’m really pleased to read it’s still on the road. drop a line to our support team, they will be able to either supply new parts or advise.

 

All the best, David

A photo of the bike would be useful. Nearly all phones and tablets are capable of taking a photo, not just iPhones, and usually it's straightforward to copy one to a computer to upload if required, particularly if the phone has a removable memory card. If there is no removable memory card, transfer to a thumb drive is possible if the tablet or phone has OTG support. Perhaps call [mention=181]Wisper Bikes[/mention], or send him a PM?

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone. It doesn't have camera facility. Only telephone calls and texts. I can get my Son to take photo's of the bike and brake system when he comes to visit. I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages. David from Wisper as messaged so will give them a shout. Thanks

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone.

 

Out of interest, can you still send and receive texts using that? If so, which network does your Nokia 3210 phone use? The reason why I ask, is because texts have been disabled for my old HTC S710, and it isn't the phone because texts are also disabled on my GPS tracker bike light.

 

Edited February 24, 20242 yr by guerney

Out of interest, can you still send and receive texts using that? If so, which network does your Nokia 3210 phone use? The reason why I ask, is because texts have been disabled for my old HTC S710, and it isn't the phone because texts are also disabled on my GPS tracker bike light.

 

Yes. Been using it today

I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages.

 

Maybe buy a cheap old webcam for your laptop to take bike photos? Prices start at £1.

 

https://uk.webuy.com/search?stext=webcam&sortBy=price_asc

 

Old webcams can work for a suprisingly long time - I still use a decades old Creative Labs Video Blaster webcam, and it's older than all of those.

Edited February 24, 20242 yr by guerney

Yes. Been using it today

Which network is your phone on? They're sacrificing frequency bands to make way for 5G, 6G, 7G etc. so texts on your phone won't work much longer.

I'll try a couple of other networks...

Edited February 24, 20242 yr by guerney

 

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone. It doesn't have camera facility. Only telephone calls and texts. I can get my Son to take photo's of the bike and brake system when he comes to visit. I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages. David from Wisper as messaged so will give them a shout. Thanks

Cameras cost virtually nothing these days:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=4k+camera&_sacat=0&_sop=15

Smartphones are even cheaper. You can use them for calls texts, internet at filming. Why would you want to use a Nokia 3210?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=smart+phone&_sacat=0&_odkw=4k+camera&_osacat=0&_sop=15

I too use a dumb phone. It makes and receives calls and texts. It's wot fones are for innit?

Sometimes I work with a mate who has a phone connected to his watch ! Eh? Bloody thing's beepin and chirrupin all day as well as tracking his every move and probably telling him what he's doing wrong whilst selling his bank details on the dark web.

No thanks.

It's official - old gitness is alive and well:cool:

I too use a dumb phone. It makes and receives calls and texts. It's wot fones are for innit?

Sometimes I work with a mate who has a phone connected to his watch ! Eh? Bloody thing's beepin and chirrupin all day as well as tracking his every move and probably telling him what he's doing wrong whilst selling his bank details on the dark web.

No thanks.

It's official - old gitness is alive and well:cool:

You can switch off all the beeping on both the watch and the phone. You can use a smartphone as just a phone if you want, or you can take photos with it, or you can use it for navigation (GPS), play music or any of the other functions. They're there if you want to use them, but you don't have to use them.

Squeal is usually down to vibration. So what in the system is vibrating ? Is there any play in the arms sitting on the canti pegs, as in can you waggle them in and out ? obviously im not meaning waggle them back and forth, as thats what they're supposed to do but towards the frame and away from it.

 

It looks like an inexpensive brake, so it might be a bit sloppy in the tolerances

 

Full set of LX here for cheap. you likely have the pads already.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115977083956?itmmeta=01HQCMM1HYQE61WM3T1TYFQWDX&hash=item1b00c5dc34:g:NqwAAOSwDcllU6VV

There are so many things that could be wrong:

• The two arms are not vertical when the brake engages. Adjust with block spacers and washers.
  
• The arms don't move symmetrically. Adjust with the tension screws on the side.
  
• The rims are gunged up. Clean with petrol.
  
• The cable doesn’t move freely. Lubricate or replace. Also, see last point.
  
• The rim doesn’t run true. Re-tension the spokes.
  
• The pivots are gunged up. Remove the arms and grease the pivots.
  
• Wheel bearings are worn. Check the rim for sideways free-play.
  
• The cable and noodle are being constrained or hampered from free movement. Nothing must touch the noodle nor the last 6" of cable. Racks are the worst offenders.
  
• Outer cable is broken or squished somewhere. Check the whole length.
  

If I was going to bet, I'd go with the arms not vertical at the point of engagement and only one moves when you pull the brake lever, because that's what I see every time someone brings a bike with rim brakes to me.

 

That's all I can do because you've given us nothing to go on.

 

I have checked almost all of those items listed. Have also replaced inner cable. What I am beginning to suspect is the small extension to the outer cable at the end where the brakes are located. I suspect this is added to extend the length of the standard outer cable? Not entirely sure but have a feeling that this could be compressing slightly under pressure? Have been looking for an extra long outer cable and, if I can find one, replace it as a complete item and go from there.

Have been looking for an extra long outer cable and, if I can find one, replace it as a complete item and go from there.

I use this stuff - you can order up to 5m lengths, or longer of you message them.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261262148436