Real Life Range

[anotherkiwi]

I just read about this ride that all the local roadies do as training (2510 ft climbing Eddie ), 48 km so I think I might take 20 Ah of battery with me... The section I havent done is between Sare and Bera, the final bit of that climb is 7% and straight up, no corners The weather looks OK next Friday...

 

[EddiePJ]

That looks a superb ride. Enjoy.

 

[anotherkiwi]

That looks a superb ride. Enjoy.

With a tiny bit of luck it will be my last outing on Number Two with the GSM before migrating it to the trike. Fingers crossed!

 

[Doomanic]

As Strava was being a dick I don't have yesterday's ride, but this one is similar, albeit slower.

 

[Gubbins]

I should have really expanded upon my reply.

As you have now become aware, eco is a very useful setting for when conserving the battery. It just means that you will be probably dropping two gears over what you might have otherwise have used in say Tour mode.

It is also beneficial for when out riding with analogue mtb riders. If I am out on group rides, I find that I require no setting higher than eco to maintain climbing pace.

Eco mode is also very useful for when riding tight technical, low speed terrain. It offers far more control than the other modes, including eMTB mode which I have a massive hatred of.

I've let things slip a bit recently, but I am very thorough about record keeping for my rides, and taking this one below from a few nights ago which was 14.5 miles long with an elevation gain of 1,649ft, the whole ride was completed using eco. I can't supply the battery stats, as both the battery and motor are very annoyingly shot to s**t

Speed V distance.

Distance V elevation.

Watts V speed. As you can see, the output was actually very low, as the riding conditions were so dire, and using higher power settings would not have had any benefit.

Hey Eddie,
I hope I dont appear argumentative but your comment on emtb mode makes me wonder how many miles you have ridden in this mode to come to such a strongly negative conclusion. There are things I like and dislike but Hatred is a really strong word.
Also
I have become interested in the power graphs which have been available in my Strava ride stats based on my weight only so must be estimated and therefor meaningless so I ignore them, but snce I started using Cobi the power and cadence information has became available in real time and also in the Strava upload, so must be generated by the motor, collated by Codi and then uploaded with the ride info, but this was never available with either the Purion or Inuvia display, probably because they dont have an upload option.
During a ride I can now have a screen displaying Power, Cadence and HR all at the same time, and see how they interact in each of the power modes which is interesting.
So how do you get the power info?
Back to my first point about emtb mode, mine seems to have been disabled since changing to Codi..

 

[hannesd]

what is this e-mtb mode? i have ECO/SPORT/POWER...

 

[Gubbins]

what is this e-mtb mode? i have ECO/SPORT/POWER...

Its a Bosch thing..

 

[EddiePJ]

Hey Eddie,
I hope I dont appear argumentative but your comment on emtb mode makes me wonder how many miles you have ridden in this mode to come to such a strongly negative conclusion. There are things I like and dislike but Hatred is a really strong word.

Don't worry, I don't think that you are being argumentative, but yes I do have a hatred for the system.

Okay, mine has had a massive installation issue from new, where by the power setting makes the mode unusable for most riding conditions, in that it kicks in too fiercely, meaning loss of traction and control. That issue has somehow cleared itself, but it still a useless mode for my for my riding.

I don't like the fact that it isn't a mode over and above the other power settings, as in eco, tour, sport, turbo, then eMTB. I also don't like the fact that even within the modes, that it doesn't directly replace Turbo, a mode that I yet to find a use for.

From my experience, and yes I have given it a good shot, it is not intuitive to my riding requirements, and is actually far removed from them. Even when operating correctly it adds too much power when pulling away on wet technical terrain, and battery consumption was also way down, a claim supported by others that I know that use the system, but equally countered by many that haven't seen a marked increase, if any at all.
I want/demand full control of settings, not loose them to a mode that doesn't do as it should. I also have zero interest in technology that either doesn't operate as claimed, or is a flaff to use. It is another reason that I wouldn't own a bike that uses phone apps etc. Being blunt, I'd rather walk.

I also don't like the fact that it isn't just a no cost option, instead of now being factory installed. Luckily for me, it is about to removed, and a packet added to prevent it being reinstalled at a later date. Had this not been an option, I would not hesitate in selling the bike, and ditching the brand. So yes, I have a hatred for it.

And breathe.


.

 

[Gubbins]

Don't worry, I don't think that you are being argumentative, but yes I do have a hatred for the system.

Okay, mine has had a massive installation issue from new, where by the power setting makes the mode unusable for most riding conditions, in that it kicks in too fiercely, meaning loss of traction and control. That issue has somehow cleared itself, but it still a useless mode for my for my riding.

I don't like the fact that it isn't a mode over and above the other power settings, as in eco, tour, sport, turbo, then eMTB. I also don't like the fact that even within the modes, that it doesn't directly replace Turbo, a mode that I yet to find a use for.

From my experience, and yes I have given it a good shot, it is not intuitive to my riding requirements, and is actually far removed from them. Even when operating correctly it adds too much power when pulling away on wet technical terrain, and battery consumption was also way down, a claim supported by others that I know that use the system, but equally countered by many that haven't seen a marked increase, if any at all.
I want/demand full control of settings, not loose them to a mode that doesn't do as it should. I also have zero interest in technology that either doesn't operate as claimed, or is a flaff to use. It is another reason that I wouldn't own a bike that uses phone apps etc. Being blunt, I'd rather walk.

I also don't like the fact that it isn't just a no cost option, instead of now being factory installed. Luckily for me, it is about to removed, and a packet added to prevent it being reinstalled at a later date. Had this not been an option, I would not hesitate in selling the bike, and ditching the brand. So yes, I have a hatred for it.

And breathe.


.

Well, yes, Mmm,
I agree it seems to come in with a bit of jump but I dont do the tricky stuff anymore so have noticed it as a bonus not a problem .
I used to always have mine in sport and never, no, rarely use Tour and eco which would explain my battery usage in EMTB being the opposite of yours by going down a bit, or up a bit (using less and going further)
I was under the impression that it cant be easily removed, yet since using Cobi it seems to have either gone, or become so smooth that I dont know its there. With the weather and problems at home I haven't done much riding so for now its an unexplained different oddness in ride characteristics to be looked at later.
I think its a good job we are all so different and can still get along because I just love tech stuff, even when it is a faff to use or simply just doesn't work.. I dread to think how much money I have wasted on geeky stuff that I use for a short while before discarding..

 

[EddiePJ]

Giving this more thought, my power issue/glitch aside, the main issue as I see it is with gearing.

I frequently find myself pulling away on steep inclines from a stand still using either the 40t or 48t gear/ratio.
eMTB mode doesn't know what gear that you are in so presumably will apply the same amount of power, as it might of for when pulling away in say a 36t ratio. I don't know how or if torque sensing would apply at this early stage in respect of how hard the pedal stroke is being applied, but given the low gearing of either the 40t or 48t, the resulting surge is far from welcome, and has on two occasions seen the bike loop backwards. I repeated the pulling away stage on both occasions without eMTB mode, and the forward transition in eco was smooth and problem free.

If the system were directly linked to the gearing, then it could in some way work.

 

[Gubbins]

Giving this more thought, my power issue/glitch aside, the main issue as I see it is with gearing.

I frequently find myself pulling away on steep inclines from a stand still using either the 40t or 48t gear/ratio.
eMTB mode doesn't know what gear that you are in so presumably will apply the same amount of power, as it might of for when pulling away in say a 36t ratio. I don't know how or if torque sensing would apply at this early stage in respect of how hard the pedal stroke is being applied, but given the low gearing of either the 40t or 48t, the resulting surge is far from welcome, and has on two occasions seen the bike loop backwards. I repeated the pulling away stage on both occasions without eMTB mode, and the forward transition in eco was smooth and problem free.

If the system were directly linked to the gearing, then it could in some way work.

There is the nail and you have just hit it. I have that exact problem all the time because I would set off on a hilly bit in Sport because in eco I dont have the legs to make it go, but I find in EMTB it sets of in a much more leisurely fashion and as I get straight a good press on the pedals and its in Sport so get me going up the hill. A good example is on my post office runs when I need to set off from in between two parked cars with other cars over the road and on a decent slope, plus having arrived there downhill its in the wrong gear as well LOL.
This conversation makes me think of professional drivers/motor journalists who test and report on the top flash high powered motors, all of which are automatic and have numerous driving aids which they all turn off and drive "by the seat of their pants" so to speak..

 

[EddiePJ]

Love it.

It also highlights an issue, that shows that companies don't take on board or even listen to what they are being told by the end user, and aren't using end users to test products prior to launch. I have never seen the point of just using pro riders to test, especially when they are fit enough to ride just as fast/well without even needing the equipment, and so fail to form a true and representative opinion.

Collective opinion, both good and bad, would benefit everyone.




.

 

[soundwave]

There is the nail and you have just hit it. I have that exact problem all the time because I would set off on a hilly bit in Sport because in eco I dont have the legs to make it go, but I find in EMTB it sets of in a much more leisurely fashion and as I get straight a good press on the pedals and its in Sport so get me going up the hill. A good example is on my post office runs when I need to set off from in between two parked cars with other cars over the road and on a decent slope, plus having arrived there downhill its in the wrong gear as well LOL.
This conversation makes me think of professional drivers/motor journalists who test and report on the top flash high powered motors, all of which are automatic and have numerous driving aids which they all turn off and drive "by the seat of their pants" so to speak..

 

[Gubbins]

Love it.

It also highlights an issue, that shows that companies don't take on board or even listen to what they are being told by the end user, and aren't using end users to test products prior to launch. I have never seen the point of just using pro riders to test, especially when they are fit enough to ride just as fast/well without even needing the equipment, and so fail to form a true and representative opinion.

Collective opinion, both good and bad, would benefit everyone.



.

you could be right.. I supose we need a few mr averages to do some testing.. But consider that a test report I might give would hardly highlight your use.
When I bought my first one about 5 years a go now I thought target customers would be the baby boomers like me that had been in work all their lives and had cash in the bank, and look how wrong that idea was..

 

[Gubbins]

Eating isnt really a driving aid! lol

 

[soundwave]

Eating isnt really a driving aid! lol

why is the window at mc donalds on the drivers side then

 

[Gubbins]

why is the window at mc donalds on the drivers side then

wouldnt know I have never been to one.

 

[soundwave]

wouldnt know I have never been to one.

 

[Gubbins]

In my life I have been in Mc donalds twice. Both times when stuck on the motorway.. Never been to a drive throo tho' I much prefer M&S Dine in for Two

 

[soundwave]

burger king is better tho had to google m&s lol sfos