Range on a New 500mAh Bosch

[garywfox]

“As an afterthought I wonder why bike shops give newbies the impression they can ride for such long distances.”

The car forums have a similar debate about “official” mpg figures. I think of such things as a useful comparison,but accept that in the real world I’d never achieve them.

Grand country for riding,btw!


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[Gubbins]

4-6 miles per segment on boost?

NO, I ride in emtb mode most of the time, but I generally climb 100 ft per mile so its using energy all the time.

 

[asc99c]

On my first bike ride with my bike, I got through 46 miles before the battery ran out (Bosch CX with the 500 battery). I weigh 18 stones, so I don't think the quoted range is unrealistic.

I've actually found I get better range leaving it in turbo all the time. I've quite often got to work in turbo without the first bar disappearing - I lose it between 20-25 miles in. Can usually get home again having just lost the second bar now (44 mile round trip, 1700 feet climbing).

When I tried using eco, I found I was going slower, but also tended to lose first bar of battery between 15-20 miles, and losing 4 bars on the round trip to work and back.

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[Trevormonty]

At 25-27kmh you will use less battery as assist drops away in this window. So pushing harder can actually reduce battery consumption.

On my first bike ride with my bike, I got through 46 miles before the battery ran out (Bosch CX with the 500 battery). I weigh 18 stones, so I don't think the quoted range is unrealistic.

I've actually found I get better range leaving it in turbo all the time. I've quite often got to work in turbo without the first bar disappearing - I lose it between 20-25 miles in. Can usually get home again having just lost the second bar now (44 mile round trip, 1700 feet climbing).

When I tried using eco, I found I was going slower, but also tended to lose first bar of battery between 15-20 miles, and losing 4 bars on the round trip to work and back.

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[Artstu]

I've actually found I get better range leaving it in turbo all the time. I've quite often got to work in turbo without the first bar disappearing - I lose it between 20-25 miles in. Can usually get home again having just lost the second bar now (44 mile round trip, 1700 feet climbing).

a range of 100 to 125 miles is what I dream of having.

 

[Gubbins]

a range of 100 to 125 miles is what I dream of having.

Should be easy to do.. all you need is a body upgrade...

 

[Danidl]

On my first bike ride with my bike, I got through 46 miles before the battery ran out (Bosch CX with the 500 battery). I weigh 18 stones, so I don't think the quoted range is unrealistic.

I've actually found I get better range leaving it in turbo all the time. I've quite often got to work in turbo without the first bar disappearing - I lose it between 20-25 miles in. Can usually get home again having just lost the second bar now (44 mile round trip, 1700 feet climbing).

When I tried using eco, I found I was going slower, but also tended to lose first bar of battery between 15-20 miles, and losing 4 bars on the round trip to work and back.

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.. does not make sense.. yes with turbo you will go a km or more faster, but in my experience battery power gets eaten up quicker. My preference is sport mode, or touring mode starting out and turbo on the return ... The most likely cause of a difference in your two cases is wind speed and direction. It might not seem much of a breeze when stopped, but it makes a huge difference at speed. Other things like wearing a jacket or coat instead of cycling in the nip. Power loss due to wind resistance increases as the CUBE of the relative wind speed. .. say travelling at 25 km hr and a wind speed of 10 km hr... Just a breeze. Then relative speed is either 15 km hr or 35 km hr and the power loss is 27 times more against the wind !!!.

 

[asc99c]

I think you're right in theory, but in practice, and like gubbins mentioned earlier, in turbo mode I get straight past the assistance speed limit, and tend to keep above it easier.

On a good run to work like last Monday, I can average 16mph, which presumably means assistance only on hills. My best result in eco IIRC was 15.2 mph on Strava, and possibly getting more tired means dropping to assistance speed more of the time.

I'm wondering if there is any drop in efficiency if the motor spends longer supplying 100w vs. a shorter time supplying 250w?

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[Danidl]

I think you're right in theory, but in practice, and like gubbins mentioned earlier, in turbo mode I get straight past the assistance speed limit, and tend to keep above it easier.

On a good run to work like last Monday, I can average 16mph, which presumably means assistance only on hills. My best result in eco IIRC was 15.2 mph on Strava, and possibly getting more tired means dropping to assistance speed more of the time.

I'm wondering if there is any drop in efficiency if the motor spends longer supplying 100w vs. a shorter time supplying 250w?

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The assistance power at any time is visible on the intuvia display as the vertical bar graph. In my experience the Bosch does give assistance beyond the 25 km level,.. on my display i see the bars flickering down in the range 26 to 27 and there is nothing beyond 27.1
There are other factors, once you get up to speed , your Momentum and kinetic energy can help you over the small hills , as might your own exilleration
No . Unless you are in totally the wrong gear, the power consumed at high speeds will be more than at low .. in fact the major advantage of the crank drives is that they can always be at maximum efficiency, unlike hub drives . If you were to be going at the wrong speed for the motor, you will seriously waste power... But the Bosch's have up and down arrows on the display to help you select the correct speed. The Bosch system outputting 100 w will always be more efficient than if it were outputting 200. ,As the current losses in the cabling ,the battery and the motor windings are less. Waste heat increases with the SQUARE of the current.

 

[anotherkiwi]

a range of 100 to 125 miles is what I dream of having.

And me 250 km! Why? My best friend a days ride away as well as youngest son. My eldest son 2 days ride away. Middle son 3 days ride...

A day being 6 hours at just over 40 km/h average speed (on the flat) = vélomobile with assistance and about 1.8 kWh of battery.

 

[Gubbins]

I think you're right in theory, but in practice, and like gubbins mentioned earlier, in turbo mode I get straight past the assistance speed limit, and tend to keep above it easier.

On a good run to work like last Monday, I can average 16mph, which presumably means assistance only on hills. My best result in eco IIRC was 15.2 mph on Strava, and possibly getting more tired means dropping to assistance speed more of the time.

I'm wondering if there is any drop in efficiency if the motor spends longer supplying 100w vs. a shorter time supplying 250w?

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All this talk of "Work" (whatever that might be) suggests a much younger person than myself who should be better equipped to ride in the treacle..

 

[Gubbins]

And me 250 km! Why? My best friend a days ride away as well as youngest son. My eldest son 2 days ride away. Middle son 3 days ride...

A day being 6 hours at just over 40 km/h average speed (on the flat) = vélomobile with assistance and about 1.8 kWh of battery.

I came across someone who could do 250KM on a charge... I passed him (going the other way) and noticed his really slow speed up a slight incline so turned around and caught him up to offer assistance. He was riding as about 7 mph when I asked him if he was in difficulties, but he responded with its ok I only turn it on for the really big hills!
He seemed about my age and I thought it was an unusual use of an ebike, but, each to their own...., or as they say around here.. Find your own sheep!

 

[asc99c]

Yeah I'm hoping to build up to using a regular road bike (in fact was looking at a Ribble R872 on offer this weekend).

I'm only 37 but three kids means I'd struggle to get the time to build cycling fitness for a 44 hour round trip any other way. The bike commute adds nearly three hours of exercise, even if assisted, for only an additional 45 minutes out of my day.

Hopefully last week and this one coming I'll have made a big step, as I've not had a car (picking up the new one after work on Wednesday). So I've been doing lots of days on the trot which I've not managed before.

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[Gubbins]

Yeah I'm hoping to build up to using a regular road bike (in fact was looking at a Ribble R872 on offer this weekend).

I'm only 37 but three kids means I'd struggle to get the time to build cycling fitness for a 44 hour round trip any other way. The bike commute adds nearly three hours of exercise, even if assisted, for only an additional 45 minutes out of my day.

Hopefully last week and this one coming I'll have made a big step, as I've not had a car (picking up the new one after work on Wednesday). So I've been doing lots of days on the trot which I've not managed before.

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If your getting a hard workout every day you need the odd rest day as well

 

[georgehenry]

Beautiful Symmetry

My 14 mile mostly off road ride to work today used 25% of my battery, giving a theoretical range of 56 miles from my three years and two month old 400Wh that has covered 9122 miles

My 10 mile faster ride home using more assistance to achieve my 20mph average speed used 35% of my battery, giving a range of 28 miles.

Stop the press, hold the front page, using more assistance to travel faster uses more battery and in this case exactly halved my potential range.

 

[Gubbins]

Beautiful Symmetry

My 14 mile mostly off road ride to work today used 25% of my battery, giving a theoretical range of 56 miles from my three years and two month old 400Wh that has covered 9122 miles

My 10 mile faster ride home using more assistance to achieve my 20mph average speed used 35% of my battery, giving a range of 28 miles.

Stop the press, hold the front page, using more assistance to travel faster uses more battery and in this case exactly halved my potential range.

how do you manage to achieve an average of 20MPH? On a UK legal ebike an average like this should use no battery power at all, or at least very little as you will probably be travelling in the low to mid 20's for most of the time...

 

[Danidl]

how do you manage to achieve an average of 20MPH? On a UK legal ebike an average like this should use no battery power at all, or at least very little as you will probably be travelling in the low to mid 20's for most of the time...

Not necessarily.. lets say the journey was over very hilly ground, then going uphill the bike could with power assistance, achieve 15 mph , but on the downhill sections the bike could without power assist, achieve 25 mph,and the average could be 20 mph. If the starting and ending positions were at the same altitude, then there would be power assist 50% of the time..

 

[asc99c]

Those speeds are more achievable on a weekend leisure ride, where you choose a nice cycling route through the countryside with hardly any stopping.

I've never managed over 16.4 on my commute, but I'm frequently up around 17-18 mph average over the first 8 miles as I don't hit traffic lights until then.

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[Artstu]

Not necessarily.. lets say the journey was over very hilly ground, then going uphill the bike could with power assistance, achieve 15 mph , but on the downhill sections the bike could without power assist, achieve 25 mph,and the average could be 20 mph. If the starting and ending positions were at the same altitude, then there would be power assist 50% of the time..

The error in your logic is that time spent at 25 mph is much shorter than time spent at 15 mph, nice try though.

 

[georgehenry]

I was slightly reluctant to reply to Gubbins queery about how I manage to achieve around a 20mph average speed on my road ride home due to the way many threads have previously got derailed by the legal bike/non legal bike polarising argument, and how certain members who are entirely rational when discussing any other issue seem to lose the plot completely on this topic. I can almost feel Colin rushing to his keyboard as I write.

So I will whisper ever so quietly that my bike keeps helping me above the legal cut off point.

One of the better threads I contributed to on the commute to work/ de restricted bike argument that is also mercifully short and full of humour was by pedalec member Wolfie70 in his thread Terry Scott gets Badasse! Made back on May 11th 2016 in the electric bike reviews section. Well worth a read just for the humour.

One myth for me at least and pertinent to a thread about battery range is that a de restricted bike will wear your battery out quicker, as mine is now in its fourth year with 9146 miles since I bought the bike in 2015 and no sign of a loss in capacity at all (My display shows that it uses the same amount of my batteries capacity for my journeys as it always has), although there must be some obviously.

To be honest I do not take a note my average speed for my 10 mile road trip home very often but just enjoy my ride home, and know that it varies according to weather conditions, my effort etc, but when I did take a note of it one night I had averaged just over 20mph after taking 29 minutes to cover the 10 mile undulating B road return from work. Weather conditions were very good on that night and I was obviously in the mood to add lots of effort as well.

I do agree that bike shops do mis-lead new buyers with their very optimistic range figures.

The figures I posted in my Beautiful Symetry post just amused me as the potential range of my longer off road journey at 56 miles for my 400Wh battery was exactly twice as far as the potential range of my shorter road trip home.

As I only use my bike to commute to work and back the total range of my bike is never an issue. I am also lucky enough to be able to charge my battery back up at work ready for the journey home.