Raleigh Stow-Away e-bike?

[cyclebuddy]

...from a dealer's point of view such systems are a great money saving advantage: they don't have to hire electronic engineers to repair bikes, they simply have to employ and train up someone to use the software and the plug and play system to swap out entire bike subsystems, which report the required error codes...

Looking at this TranzX system, it's simply a "de-skilling" tool.

It allows "proper" traditional "grease-monkey" bike mechanics who may be devoid of any electrical skills the ability to sell, service and repair a growth segment of their market with some confidence which they might otherwise shun. One of my local bike dealers is exactly that, a seasoned veteran repairing bikes since the 1950's. He can true a wheel in his sleep, but electrics are a complete anathema to him.

What I particularly like is:
1) It points you in the direction of where to look for the fault. It's not always a case of a wholesale component change.
2) You can of course update manufacturer firmware - or revert back to a previous version (as many Bosch owners have sometimes had a desire to do).
3) The "cloud" tells you when/where the bike was made, the bike serial nos (individual parts included - motor, display etc), firmware version and it's update history. It records a log of all faults and component changes to your specific bike over time. You can't give a prospective second buyer the "It's been thoroughly reliable, I've hardly used it" yarn to garner a better price because the full story is there, fixed for eternity in the cloud.

CANbus systems aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for some (both dealers and consumers) I can see they can be a good solution.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Looking at this TranzX system, it's simply a "de-skilling" tool.

It allows "proper" traditional "grease-monkey" bike mechanics who may be devoid of any electrical skills the ability to sell, service and repair a growth segment of their market with some confidence which they might otherwise shun. One of my local bike dealers is exactly that, a seasoned veteran repairing bikes since the 1950's. He can true a wheel in his sleep, but electrics are a complete anathema to him.

What I particularly like is:
1) It points you in the direction of where to look for the fault. It's not always a case of a wholesale component change.
2) You can of course update manufacturer firmware - or revert back to a previous version (as many Bosch owners have sometimes had a desire to do).
3) The "cloud" tells you when/where the bike was made, the bike serial nos (individual parts included - motor, display etc), firmware version and it's update history. It records a log of all faults and component changes to your specific bike over time. You can't give a prospective second buyer the "It's been thoroughly reliable, I've hardly used it" yarn to garner a better price because the full story is there, fixed for eternity in the cloud.

CANbus systems aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for some (both dealers and consumers) I can see they can be a good solution.

Aren't all ebikes pretty much can bus? I think it just means controller area network and a bus for devices to communicate with each other and pretty much all ebikes have to do that if they have a display and controller communicating together. It can be a universal open standard. I think the issue is encrypted can bus solutions where they prevent easy repair and replacement and therefore often make repairs uneconomic and send many expensive ebikes to recycling prematurely. I've seen a few of the big US ebike importers videos on youtube with instructions for how to do repairs for dealers and end consumers. They show how to do simple checks and replace controllers or fuses. The controllers often look generic but of course the video's say buy your replacement from them if not a free warranty replacement, they show good support for non-encrypted ebikes.

To encrypt ebike parts is a commercial decision to maximise revenue. I was astounded when I saw on a video how much it costs to be a Bosch dealer and just do basic diagnosis and light repairs and not much else. It's clear both dealers and consumers are being exploited but obviously consumers have that choice to pay these huge premiums for such short life products.

I'm strongly against proprietary encrypted short-life products, I believe in the right to repair and making ebikes accessible to the maximum number of people. I feel very similar to the Canadian company Grin Technology about making reliable long term solutions rather than over-complicated overpriced short life products.

 

[soundwave]

there are only 2 mid drive motors that are made to be serviced Yamaha and impulse.

Yamaha uses uart programming for coms on there systems and one of the only motors you can get parts for and a new controller if required.

peter can now do board repair on some controllers with a 90% success rate as most of the time it is short damage from water inside the motors.

 

[guerney]

Aren't all ebikes pretty much can bus? I think it just means controller area network and a bus for devices to communicate with each other and pretty much all ebikes have to do that if they have a display and controller communicating together. It can be a universal open standard. I think the issue is encrypted can bus solutions where they prevent easy repair and replacement and therefore often make repairs uneconomic and send many expensive ebikes to recycling prematurely.

The protocol for Bafang's BBS series has been painstakingly (many controller sacrifices made by hackers) and comprehensively hacked, and the battery wasn't included - just two wires. It's awful that Bafang's potting material is so hard to remove from the controller, for testing and repair, especially when burnt (as reported by @peter.c recently). If I had known about this before I bought the kit, I would have bought a more open hub system, then been horribly disappointed when a legal 250W hub was incapable of towing my heavy bike trailers up steep hills... something my BBS01B excels at, which still provides me with high speed if needed, when not towing. When 1000W hub motored bikes become legal to ride without a license, I'll get one.

 

[soundwave]

Buy Bafang Tools at HBS

Buy Bafang Tools online? The largest Bafang Tools assortment with

hollandbikeshop.com

so that means there batts only but ppl have hacked it but then the batts voltage is level wrong as not talking to the controller.

just rip the pi$$ing controller out of it and use a phase runner or vesc ect

 

[guerney]

Buy Bafang Tools at HBS

Buy Bafang Tools online? The largest Bafang Tools assortment with

hollandbikeshop.com

so that means there batts only but ppl have hacked it but then the batts voltage is level wrong as not talking to the controller.

just rip the pi$$ing controller out of it and use a phase runner or vesc ect

Cool! It woudn't be hard to solder a voltage display to the battery and add it to the handlebar. Maybe my next motor will be a Bafang after all...

 

[soundwave]

you can use the motors just dump the controller in the motor and use a 3rd party one.

they can lock these things down all they like but it is still a 3 phase motor you just need to get to the wires.

 

[Stanebike]

Meanwhile back with the Raleigh Stoweway.

My sister has one and it's nice to ride and impressive on hills. It's great on gravel cycle paths which was quite a surprise to me, much better than I expected from 20" wheels. It is easily folded and has magnets to hold it in the folded position. Thus when folded you can keep the handlebars up and push the bike along in front of you very easily. I like the bike and enjoyed riding it

Like all things there are pros and cons.

If you like doing all your own maintenance including the electricals that would be difficult with TransX electricals. The battery is quite small at only 6.8Ah and quite expensive compared cheap online Chinese batteries.

On the other hand if you would prefer a dealer to take care of your bike there are loads of Raleigh dealers around.

Finally Which Magazine has road tested the bike twice. The first time it scored 56% if remember correctly and the second time the Halfords Raleigh Evo, which is identical, scored 65% reflecting the models continual development.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Meanwhile back with the Raleigh Stoweway.

My sister has one and it's nice to ride and impressive on hills. It's great on gravel cycle paths which was quite a surprise to me, much better than I expected from 20" wheels. It is easily folded and has magnets to hold it in the folded position. Thus when folded you can keep the handlebars up and push the bike along in front of you very easily. I like the bike and enjoyed riding it

Like all things there are pros and cons.

If you like doing all your own maintenance including the electricals that would be difficult with TransX electricals. The battery is quite small at only 6.8Ah and quite expensive compared cheap online Chinese batteries.

On the other hand if you would prefer a dealer to take care of your bike there are loads of Raleigh dealers around.

Finally Which Magazine has road tested the bike twice. The first time it scored 56% if remember correctly and the second time the Halfords Raleigh Evo, which is identical, scored 65% reflecting the models continual development.

I personally don't rate Which reviews I find much of them appalling. When testing vacuum cleaners they gave very high ratings for low noise and never factored in the long term cost of replacement bags for some vacuum cleaners. I've also seen AV equipment that was hopelessly reviewed because I don't think they fully understood the products and from what I've seen on ebike reviews they never factor in the high cost of repairs for proprietary ebike solutions or the high wear rate of drivetrains for mid-drive motor ebikes. It's a completely flawed organisation. They often favour Miele washing machines which admittedly are very good but they are only marginally more reliable than most other brands in fact LG are often rated higher but their repair costs are obscene and totally uncompetitive with other brands. Just not factored into their reviews and because Miele have only a small number of service agents and restrict spares to those agents sometimes repairs can take a very long time where as many brands do not restrict spares availability so can be repaired faster and at a much more competitive price.

Miele is rated "Bad" with 1.6 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with Miele's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 2,516 customers have already said.

uk.trustpilot.com

 

[RHB123]

Meanwhile back with the Raleigh Stoweway.

My sister has one and it's nice to ride and impressive on hills. It's great on gravel cycle paths which was quite a surprise to me, much better than I expected from 20" wheels. It is easily folded and has magnets to hold it in the folded position. Thus when folded you can keep the handlebars up and push the bike along in front of you very easily. I like the bike and enjoyed riding it

Like all things there are pros and cons.

If you like doing all your own maintenance including the electricals that would be difficult with TransX electricals. The battery is quite small at only 6.8Ah and quite expensive compared cheap online Chinese batteries.

On the other hand if you would prefer a dealer to take care of your bike there are loads of Raleigh dealers around.

Finally Which Magazine has road tested the bike twice. The first time it scored 56% if remember correctly and the second time the Halfords Raleigh Evo, which is identical, scored 65% reflecting the models continual development.

Thank you, very helpful Stan. One member quoted that because of the electrics and other considerations, that a major problem would only cost £100 maybe? I think it was Neil on a thread about this and the Rambletta bike? Anyway, and problems and its back to my local Halfords?

 

[Nealh]

Which reviews are poor and usually flawed, any company or product is looked at favourably if said company pays them an inducement.

 

[sjpt]

A few decades ago there were some really terrible white good s around, and on the whole Which? was quite good at sorting them out.

Now the number of really terrible products of that sort is quite small. Which? reviews seem to concentrate on a few technical details, which may or may not be what is relevant to you. There are lots of online reviews which with a little careful interpretation are a much better guide. Which? seem to be particularly poor in slightly specialized areas (such as e-bikes)

 

[Nealh]

The Mrs family own a locksmith shop/business and a furniture retail shop.
They told me a tale about a well known furniture manufacturer and they had 'Which' review the products, Which told the manufacturer they would give review feed back and recommendation for a remuneration. Said manufacturer told 'Which' to stick their reviews where the sun doesn't shine.

That is how 'Which' operate , they don't do it for free so the results are biased to those who cough up.

 

[soundwave]

 

[guerney]

The Mrs family own a locksmith shop/business and a furniture retail shop.
They told be a tale about a well known furniture manufacturer and they had 'Which' review the products, Which told the manufacturer they would give review feed back and recommendation for a remuneration. Said manufacturer told 'Which' to stick their reviews where the sun doesn't shine.

That is how 'Which' operate , they don't do it for free so the results are biased to those who cough up.

Whichcraft should be illegal, but occurs in all review magazines and websites, to varying degrees of corruption - I bought an inkjet printer which was touted as a wonderous machine capable of many things by my favourite IT news site The Register... only to discover that the reviewer had quite obviously never actually used one - printed very low quality everything, didn't scan as advertised and eventually tore itself apart, spitting out a white cog on the paper tray. HP immediately sent me a replacement, but I've never trusted a review from an organisation since.

 

[Stanebike]

Hi RHB123 I've just looked at Halfords website and the Raleigh Stoweway price is £1399. Where did you find the cheaper £1000 price?

 

[Bonzo Banana]

A few decades ago there were some really terrible white good s around, and on the whole Which? was quite good at sorting them out.

Now the number of really terrible products of that sort is quite small. Which? reviews seem to concentrate on a few technical details, which may or may not be what is relevant to you. There are lots of online reviews which with a little careful interpretation are a much better guide. Which? seem to be particularly poor in slightly specialized areas (such as e-bikes)

I'm not sure they were good at sorting them out. I did a few Which trials and kept files of their reliability data as I thought it would be useful but for example if you rate a washing machine for reliability you have to include repair costs and the frequency of washes. I remember reading of someone who bought a Hoover washing machine (poorly rated) because they were relatively poor and it was cheap, they had a large family and the husband had a manual job, mechanic or something like that and they did 10 full washes a week they estimated and the washing machine lasted 18 months before a fault and that fault was sorted for £40 locally by an independent repair agent. While discussing Miele washing machines on a forum a retired middle-class person (my assumption) stated they used their Miele less than once a week and not always a full load and that is how often I use my Panasonic washing machine too, so far lasted 8 years without a fault. Premium brand washing machines are typically bought by richer people who are less likely to have large families statistically and less likely to do as many loads. My point is you have to judge washing machine reliability by loads not years. I personally don't think my Panasonic washing machine would still be working without repair if I did 10 full loads a week. I probably only do 1/10th of that. It's a bit like judging car reliability and costs based on years of ownership rather than miles driven it makes no sense. The type of people that buy Miele may be very different to those that buy a cheap washing machine and that might mean the washing machine has a far easier time and less use. I had a Indesit washing machine in the house I bought, it was rusty and ugly and very basic but I thought I'd use it until it fails but the thing never every failed and got to hate the look of it. I sold it on as working. That probably was used about 3 times every fortnight as it was smaller capacity. I just feel Which is the wrong advice a lot of the time when it comes to product testing.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Hi RHB123 I've just looked at Halfords website and the Raleigh Stoweway price is £1399. Where did you find the cheaper £1000 price?

Buy a Raleigh Stow-E Electric Folder 2022 from E-Bikes Direct

I just feel Which is the wrong advice a lot of the time when it comes to product testing.

Having sometimes bought 5 washing machines or 5 fridges at a time, I've always relied on John Lewis' expert advice. Apart from their price match guarantee and extended warranties as standard, they only stock and sell what they've proven to themselves won't be returned or cause Customer problems because that damages their own reputation too. For a long while - maybe a decade or more - Zanussi washing machines were the brand to beat for reliability to the point that John Lewis started branding Zanussi washers with their own name (although I don't think that's the case now). I'm currently renovating one property where one of those John Lewis supplied Zanussi washer/dryers was installed 18 years ago and it still runs perfectly (no repairs in all that time). It's only being scrapped now because it looks too out-of-date.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Buy a Raleigh Stow-E Electric Folder 2022 from E-Bikes Direct


Having sometimes bought 5 washing machines or 5 fridges at a time, I've always relied on John Lewis' expert advice. Apart from their price match guarantee and extended warranties as standard, they only stock and sell what they've proven to themselves won't be returned or cause Customer problems because that damages their own reputation too. For a long while - maybe a decade or more - Zanussi washing machines were the brand to beat for reliability to the point that John Lewis started branding Zanussi washers with their own name (although I don't think that's the case now). I'm currently renovating one property where one of those John Lewis supplied Zanussi washer/dryers was installed 18 years ago and it still runs perfectly (no repairs in all that time). It's only being scrapped now because it looks too out-of-date.

I've never owned anything Zanussi except for one item which probably shows my age, a Zanussi TV and it was great while it lasted but not that reliable sadly and when I looked inside it was very poorly made and designed. I could be wrong stating this but I seem to remember Zanussi, as is AEG part of the Electrolux group of Sweden and so they share a lot of parts and designs nowadays. So its more of a Italian brand, Swedish engineered product nowadays. Maybe that has changed. I think Zanussi are rated mid-level in reliability but I feel parts availability and ease of repair would be miles better than Miele for example.

Just out of curiosity I had a look for my old tv and it has its own page;

1983 16" Zanussi 16Z1506 -

Model: 16Z1506

www.radios-tv.co.uk

As I say though its circuits were very low tech compared to a similar Ferguson of the same vintage and the picture on the Ferguson was miles better much more vivid. I bought the Zanussi because it was more stylish and had more sockets plus liked the twin telescopic aerials. Also House of Fraser had interest free credit but it was I have to admit a poor quality product but this would have been a Italian designed product rather than the later Swedish engineered products.