Raleigh Stonefly Conversion?

[Ashley750]

As I live only 7.2 miles from work, and it's along country lanes, I feel I should be cycling to work rather than driving, however I really don't want to get to work sweaty and needing a shower. So using an electric bike came to mind, also my employer is part of cyclesheme.co.uk, which would give me quite a saving. I am a reasonably fit 54 year old and my weight fluctuates around 80kg.

My current cycle is a Raleigh Stonefly that I have had for nearly 25 years, but its in good condition, and set up for road use, although it's not used that often. I would also want to fit some swept back riser bars to achieve a more upright riding position, as my back is not as flexible as it used to be!!

It weights in at 18kg as is, so it is not the lightest and has a steel frame, and ally shocks.

From a quick look at kits available, the Cyclotricity front hub kit and 11Ah pannier mounted battery caught my eye. My front forks are 100mm apart, and the drop outs are 10mm, so wheel will fit OK, and I also have square tapers for the pedal assist, although as its a cassette BB, I think the sensor and ring will need to go on the gearwheel side. So some questions to start with:-

• The kit comes with brake levers, but as my levers have integrated gear changers, I would not want to fit them. Would this matter?
• Would it end up being too heavy with a kit fitted? Guess kit would be about 5ish kg, so circa 23kg.
• Are Cyclotricity kits good?
• Anything else I should consider? Any alternative kits? (would need to be sourced from someone signed up to Cyclesheme.co.uk).
• Would fitting a kit to a 2nd hand lighter alloy framed hybrid style road biased bike be better?
• Would it be worth trying a front hub drive bike first, as I have not tried an eBike yet?

Looking forward to hearing you thoughts, as this is all new to me.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Get a rear motor kit.

 

[Benjahmin]

I find the brake cut off useful in two ways. When approaching a junction that is, say, an inclined restart, you need to be getting in the right gear. By pulling the brake lever slightly you can do this but not have the drive kick in. The other is flat roads with a following wind or slight down hills. Again just a slight pull (not large enough to actually brake) means you ride unassisted for the short duration so saving a bit of range, which all stacks up. You could, of course, turn the power off at the lcd. There is the option of fitting a cable mounted cutoff to one brake.
E bikes tend to be heavy. Mine started as a 14kg Carrera, now with kit,lock, panniers water bottle, 2 batteries etc. etc. must be 30kgish - who cares, I got a motor

Front hubs can sometimes be a bit tricksy ! Low speed tight manouvres can catch you out, also very steep inclines on loose or greasy surfaces require putting your weight over the bars to prevent the wheel from scrubbing. On ally forks you must make sure that the drop outs are deep enough and that you fit a torque bracket. On a steel frame rear may be better.

If you like the bike you have, go with that. You could remove the granny ring (you won't be needing that) and fit the pas ring instead. Only advantage I see in a more modern bike would be disc brakes, could fit a Mgura HS11 to the front for that extra stopping power that the extra weight demands.
Of course we all like a new bike

 

[BG bicycle]

Motor hubs are the way to go imho, the hubs take away a reliance on gears in respects that if gears become faulty, etc, the hub keeps on going.

The brake motor power cut-off I find very reassuring way to disconnect the motor from the battery. Also throttles are known to go faulty.

 

[Ashley750]

Get a rear motor kit.

Any recommendations for rear kits?

A look on Google has found some Woosh kits, but Woosh don't use Cycle Scheme. Electric bike conversions have this kit http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/acatalog/electric_bike_rear_hub_kit_details.html#SID=2, which with 11Ah pannier battery, 7 speed cassette & LCD PAS, work out at £624, and they do use Cycle Scheme. This still leaves the issues of sorting out brake operated cut outs, etc.

So KudosDave's post in my "introduce yourself" thread, mentioning a demonstrator Rapide for under £1k sounds tempting. Would this be a better way to start, and what is the Rapide like?

Thanks.

 

[DynatechFan]

mostly agree with what others have said

a newb to this myself but pretty happy with the rear hub Yose kit I fitted to my retro Raleigh MTB - Yose have a new website up (but not much stock yet) and it was a fairly straight forward build (eventually). Even without cycle scheme the prices are good. My view is steel frames make excellent conversions because the drop outs are strong and the rear triangle flexes nicely - as en ex metallurgist I don't trust aluminium alloys with stress / fatigue

I dont use brake lever cut outs myself and dont miss them. I did put decent Schwalbe puncture resistant tyres on my bike though as you really dont want to be pulling a rear wheel out to fix a puncture by the side of the road

 

[Ashley750]

Hi DynatechFan. I found the Yose website, and the stuff looks pretty good, but as you said, they do not seem to have any stock. Found that Panda do a rear hub kit for around £600 with 10.4Ah battery. What is their stuff like? Strangely, I cannot find a phone number on their website to have a chat with them.

Rear hub, with battery on down tube feels like the right direction, just need to find the right kit.

Any other suppliers / sites to looks at for kits?

 

[wheeliepete]

I'm sure the Yose kits will be back in stock pretty soon, within a few weeks, but they do sell quickly. They are very well priced. If you compare them to the Panda kit, it means you are paying £400 for a 10.4Ah battery, which is crazy. Yose have a 11.6Ah battery with branded cells in stock for just over £200. I'm not aware of any other kits in the EU at the moment that compare.

 

[Ashley750]

I'm sure the Yose kits will be back in stock pretty soon, within a few weeks, but they do sell quickly.

I found some email addresses for Yose on their website, so have emailed to ask when they will have new stock in.

 

[Ashley750]

So, I think I have narrowed it down to 2 options.

1. 26" Yose 350W 36V rear hub kit, with either the 14.5Ah HaiLong battery, or the 12.8Ah LG cell battery (depending on which one I end up thinking looks better!).
2. Woosh XF08 CST rear hub kit.

Not sure of the Pro's and Con's of either, but my thoughts are:-

• Some of the items in the kits look similar.
• Yose a lot cheaper, but currently have no stock, although they have said they will be getting some in the next few days.
• Might be more difficult to get technical support with Yose.
• Not sure what motor Yose use.
• Woosh fit the controller in the HaiLong housing, much neater.
• I like the small left side pedal sensor that Woosh can supply.
• Technical support from Woosh might be better being UK based.

I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's not neater to have the controller in the battery because the wire is always too long and there's nowhere to hide it. I personally prefer a separate controller because you can hide the wire in the bag/box with it and it's easier to get at the wires for testing. It's very difficult to find out what's wrong when you have the moulded connectors because there's nowhere to connect your meter. Also, the Yose kit has a KT sine wave controller, which I prefer.

None of these points are deal-breakers.

 

[Woosh]

It's not neater to have the controller in the battery because the wire is always too long and there's nowhere to hide it.

my kits are not like bmsbattery's.
I know where the battery, the LCD and the motor go, I order the parts and their cables made to the correct lengths. BMSBATTERY buy their stuff for all combinations and just chuck them into the box, that's why they come with too long cables.
This is my controller:

Note the length of the motor cable, the main Julet waterproof cable and the pedal sensor.
Do they look too long for you?
Does any one else take as much care as I did?

 

[Nealh]

The Yose hub is their own it's a copy of other similar hubs, it is not to dissimilar to the Q128c at 119mm diameter.
The main difference to compare will be motor winding.
Yose listings I have seen vary from 270 - 320 rpm dependant on wheel sizes.

The Woosh hub may be a slower wind, if so it will be more efficient when climbing and as you have mentioned any issues will be easier to sort out. As we know the CS is second to none, turn around for replacement/swapping out spare parts is pretty quick 36 - 72hrs.

 

[wheeliepete]

Both kits have their merits, Yose on price using good components, but maybe not as refined as the Woosh kit when it comes to cable length, hidden controller and a tried and tested motor if these factors are important to you . As this is your 1st, and poss. only build, you may be better off with the latter knowing they are UK based should you run into any problems.

 

[BG bicycle]

I wouldn’t want a BMS, inaccessable from my volt meter, and if was ever a fault and reliant on a service technician it’s more time spent on the bench to repair or replace faulty components.

Also the present BMS I utilise disconnects at 36 volts and once or twice the magic wire has somehow found itself bypassing it’s over protected status. Gets me home.

If require the skills of another to service your bike the UK, sellers is best.

Those batteries what specific type on offer? I’ve LG MH1 and found on my bike that the voltage drop caused stutter to the motor until I built the battery unit beyond 18ah. But they MH1s were terrific value.

 

[Ashley750]

. As we know the CS is second to none............

Forgive my ignorance (this is all very new to me), but what are you referring to regarding "the CS"?

 

[wheeliepete]

CS=customer services

 

[Ashley750]

Having never tried an eBike, I managed to have a trial ride on a Raleigh Captus this morning. Loved the assistance, and the way it went up hills, so convinced an eBike is the way forward .

One thing I didn't like was the drag / braking effect as soon as I stopped pedalling. The Captus had a mid mounted motor, do the geared hub motors give the same effect?

Think I am going to get a Woosh rear hub kit, as it's my first build, and they do seem to have a good reputation. XF08 CST kit seems good at £499, or else there is the SWX02 kit at £549. How do the 2 motors (MXUS XF08C and Befang SWX02) compare?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The drag is an illusion. The motor is providing something like twice the power you are, so it makes your pedalling easy. Your brain gets confused by your normal frame of reference for riding an unpowered bike, for which it's only easy to pedal when it's flat or the wind behind you. When you stop your easy pedalling with the motor, you lose nearly all the power that makes it easy, so the bike slows down very quickly.

You'll see that the bike free-wheels like any other bike when you go downhill.

 

[Trevormonty]

The better test is ride at low speed eg 8mph on flat with no head wind, then turn assist off and feel difference.