Raining on me ebike parade TSDZ2

[Bogmonster666]

I will hopefully be installing a TSDZ2 kit in the next few days.

Not expecting a major challenge, I am reasonably competent at this kind of thing and did a hub kit years ago in the early days before kits were common place.

My main doubt is reliability, particularly with water ingress and this is where I want some advice.

I have ordered a bag battery and whilst I may make a custom case I am not concerned with this bit and keeping water out...

Not seen a tsdz2 in the flesh but understand the seals are not great. Have full mudguards so that will help a bit. No plans on wading but not just a fair weather cyclist (this is the UK). I'm sure I can add additional grease around case seals. Hopefully there are some rudimentary seals in the case? I probably have some silicone grease around that I use for o-rings in caving lights. Red rubber grease is a cheaper option - any recommendations? I suspect the cable exit points are a weak spot as well?

I may heat shrink the more exposed connectors.

Tbh, I anticipate that the vlcd5 display will be the biggest problem, and any moisture will also fog the display. Short of a stylish clear poly bag, anybody got any ideas? Tbh, the vlcd5 display looks like a big ugly sore that screams ebike and I would have been happier with a smaller and more discreet display so it's possible it will get swapped anyway...

Overall, how problematic have people found our climate with their kits?

C

 

[flecc]

Have full mudguards so that will help a bit.

Unless your bike is from many decades ago it will probably have a front mudguard that is far too short, like this one:


Sixty and more years ago they were far more sensible and often with mudflaps too, like the one below:


so they really did protect the BB area of the bike. I'd suggest you add an extra piece of mudguard and even a fabricated mud flap, pop rivetted or bolted on to give similar full protection.

Cheap inner tubes are often quite thick and a mudflap can be cut from one.
.

 

[AGS]

I made some effort to waterproof everything on my Bafang motor, but I do have a tendency to take it through nasty muddy wet stuff. I also didn’t like the way the motor and cables were exposed to rocks and tree stumps so I have tried to protect them with a bash guard. The motor doesn’t get good airflow, but it also doesn’t get clogged up with mud. I wrapped all of the cables coming out of the motor in self amalgamating tape.

It’s not a TSD, but similar principles apply.

Self-Amalgamating Rubber Tape Black 3m x 25mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Helps to make watertight seals for leaking pipes or waterproofing. Suitable for jointing, splicing and repairing cables, hoses, plastic and metallic tubes. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

 

[Cadence]

Unless your bike is from many decades ago it will probably have a front mudguard that is far too short, like this one:
View attachment 50972

Sixty and more years ago they were far more sensible and often with mudflaps too, like the one below:

View attachment 50971
so they really did protect the BB area of the bike. I'd suggest you add an extra piece of mudguard and even a fabricated mud flap, pop rivetted or bolted on to give similar full protection.

Cheap inner tubes are often quite thick and a mudflap can be cut from one.
.

My cheap and cheerful mudflap is cut from an empty 2 litre plastic bleach bottle



It attaches to the existing stay fittings and is flexible enough to bend and spring back if hitting obstacles. It may not be "cool" but it keeps the BB clean. I searched for a black 2 litre bottle of "something", but couldn't find one!

 

[flecc]

My cheap and cheerful mudflap is cut from an empty 2 litre plastic bleach bottle

View attachment 50976

It attaches to the existing stay fittings and is flexible enough to bend and spring back if hitting obstacles. It may not be "cool" but it keeps the BB clean. I searched for a black 2 litre bottle of "something", but couldn't find one!

Very nice too, practical and sensible.
.

 

[Bikes4two]

• The mud flap extensions are a great suggestion and I like others have extended the front mudflap.
• I also liberally applied mastic to all of the cable exit points on the motor although TBH the original seemed up to the job but........
• And I removed the outer cover and applied Red Rubber Grease to the existing seal although there was no evidence of water ingress (belts and braces and all that!).
• I have the VLCD6 and it does indeed fog up. I've had it apart, greased the rubber seal, wafted warm air in it but still it fogs up.
• This clears after a short while and it is only a minor irritation for me as I just power on and ride in ECO all of the time. As for the battery charge indicators, they are useless and I have over time learnt what range I can get from the battery anyway.
• 6,000Km now and the motor is still sweet and arfter OSF-ing it, it is quieter than most of the Bosch riders I go with.

 

[Nealh]

The exit cables on the tsdz2 are sealed permanently unless one has cause to pick out the potted like rubber.

My tsdz2 ute is only a fairweather bike as that is when I visit my bees , no use me going in the rain. My wet weather riding bikes are the bullet proof hub motor bikes and kt LCD3 imv the best of all the KT displays.

 

[Bikes4two]

@Bogmonster666 - an update on places to look to prevent water ingress on the TSDZ2:

• One of my instalations on a friends bike seemed to be noisier than mine for instance.
• I initially put this down to possible noise resonance in his large tubed aluminium frame but as he was swapping the motor from one bike to another, I asked if I could examine his motor for any issues - and I found one!
• With the right crank removed and then the chainring guard and chainring also removed, there is then access to a watertight cover that goes over the main gear wheel - I removed it for inspection and it was clear that water had got inside.
• Futher, on removing the motor (on the other side of the casing) to inspect the Blue Gear, some water had seeped through from the main gear housing via the pinion gear bearing. This had caused some corrosion in the Blue Gear bearings and was very stiff to turn and almost certainly responsible for the noiser ride.
• I've yet to remove the pinion gear and it's associated bearing, but I suspect that bearing might also need replacing.
• All that could have been prevented by the simple application of some sealant such as Red Rubber Grease to the two OEM seals on the main gear cover.
• I know there will be those that argue that this shouldn't be necessary, but these motors are made to a low price point where Quality Control amongst other things is probably sacrificed, but I for one and happy to put up with this for what is a great motor for the price that gives a good riding experience on a par with the very expensive mid drive motors from the likes of Bosch et al.

 

[Bogmonster666]

@Bikes4two, that is a very useful post indeed.

I agree with your sentiment about the motor, it's built to a price point and there are implications to that one needs to accept. At the moment there is not really much completion (although I hear a new mid drive is soon to be released). I have only had the kit for a few days and done 100 miles but I don't think a hub motor would really have worked for me on these hills (the DWG22C might have at a pinch). And I really like the torque drive. I don't think I would have got on the cadence or throttle options on hubs or the bafang mid drives.

Also, as I'm prepared to put in moderate effort, the TSDZ2 isn't that heavy given the range you can get from a battery that isn't enormous. The only real competition is one of the big brand mid drives and they are expensive, a big theft risk, can't be DIY fit serviced.

I hope in a years time I will be of the same view, but yes, I think a bit of fettling and maintenance is a price worth paying. For the cost, I will probably just buy a spare blue wheel and possibly bearings so I have them to hand if the need arises.

I am sure I can remove the chainring and grease the seal there without impacting the warranty. I know some folks recommend greasing the blue gear every 1000 miles or so and by my thinking I'm likely to average 50+ miles a week, likely more through the summer. I hope I don't actually wear out the blue gear or bearings in my warranty period though - guessing bearings may be a valid warranty item but the blue gear a wear and tear item? I wonder if I have voided my warranty if I open the motor housing - there is a little 'warranty voided if removed' sticker over the joint. I can see how dishonest or incompetent folks could try and take advantage and I'm sure such people exist even in the ebike community

I was going to email Andy at Whoosh just to let him know the install was easy and the kit is working fine, I'll ask the question.

Anyway, I will go ahead and apply some red rubber grease under the chainring.

C

 

[Bogmonster666]

Incidentally, I noticed that Halfords had a sale on and with the sale and blue light card discount I could get a Bosch powered Crossfuse for a little over £1600 which is a good price for a Bosch bike I think. Would still have had to put on racks, mudguards and so on.

By my reckoning I could take the bike I had, kit at £606, let's call it £700 after some service items for current bike.

That leaves me £900 that if I really wanted could buy me say a voodoo limba gravel bike, another motor (would not need another battery as can't cycle 2 bikes at once), have an almost completely redundant system and still have some beer tokens left

It was these economies that convinced me to go down the kit route.

C

 

[vidtek]

@Bogmonster666
Re-your original query, regarding the ingress of water into the display, I just use a peice of cling-film with an elastic band around it, replacing it every 6 months or so. Keeps it bone dry and cheap as chips.

No need for fancy solutions, may not look the best, but it's another thing that says it's a homemade jobbie and puts would-be theives off, they just want a quick and easy sale they don't want to be messing about with diy stuff, not anywhere near as easily saleable.

 

[Bogmonster666]

@vidtek, ha, that is exactly what I have done It looks a bit naff but I really don't care.

As per the previous discussions on mudguards, my mudguards are already quite good (low) but the plastic flap has cracked. I have got Mrs Bogmonster to save a 6 pint plastic milk bottle as I think that is the perfect material to fashion a new mudguard flap - stuff enough not to flat about too much, flexible enough not to crack when I push bike down a kerb and catch it, cheap enough to replace and easy to cut with scissors.

Often the best solutions are the simple ones...

C

 

[guerney]

I used to use cling film and an elastic band, later I used thicker cheap clear food bags - but because my 20" Dahon Helios P8 folds, the display can be bashed at the edges and corners while doing so, or they can be bumped in between the front and rear wheels while folded, or just one side of the front wheel and other objects, if the fork is turned so that the handlepost folds outwards... which led to easy to go unnoticed tiny holes in cling film and food bags, which let in rain. Hence my current use of much longer lasting (haven't had to replace it for almost a year so far) thicker and stronger clear folded over plastic, edged with gaffa tape and self-amalgamating tape.

 

[Plas man]

For mudflap’s try a bit of damp course material , any building site worker will get you a sample . (PVC type)

 

[Bogmonster666]

Good idea, and as luck would have it I have a roll of it kicking about ...

 

[Bogmonster666]

@Bikes4two, looking at your photos it looks to me like a perfect arrangement for rusting out the spindle bearings at the pinion gear!

Any water that does get it can collect in the convenient little pocket in the housing for the pinion gear ensuring it can sit in the water forever.

It feels like it would almost be better to have a drain hole at the low point by the pinion gear? If you can't stop all the water getting in, then accept defeat and allow the water to drain out...

Anyway, I am going to take the chainring off and take a proper look.

C

 

[Nealh]

My ute it kicks up a lot of crud on the trails so I have used some 1mm butyl pondliner I have to make longer guard flaps.
A long front one (8") to prevent excess splatter to the motor, a 10" one on the rear to prevent splatter ove rthe trailer bed and cargo and finally a middle one (5") for the front of the rear mudgaurd to prevent splatter over the chain and derailleur area.

I use pu18 marine pond sealant as it is flexible and is super tacky for instant stick and stays in place, quite quick to cure and holds strong.

 

[Mr Motorvator]

I will hopefully be installing a TSDZ2 kit in the next few days.

Not expecting a major challenge, I am reasonably competent at this kind of thing and did a hub kit years ago in the early days before kits were common place.

My main doubt is reliability, particularly with water ingress and this is where I want some advice.

I have ordered a bag battery and whilst I may make a custom case I am not concerned with this bit and keeping water out...

Not seen a tsdz2 in the flesh but understand the seals are not great. Have full mudguards so that will help a bit. No plans on wading but not just a fair weather cyclist (this is the UK). I'm sure I can add additional grease around case seals. Hopefully there are some rudimentary seals in the case? I probably have some silicone grease around that I use for o-rings in caving lights. Red rubber grease is a cheaper option - any recommendations? I suspect the cable exit points are a weak spot as well?

I may heat shrink the more exposed connectors.

Tbh, I anticipate that the vlcd5 display will be the biggest problem, and any moisture will also fog the display. Short of a stylish clear poly bag, anybody got any ideas? Tbh, the vlcd5 display looks like a big ugly sore that screams ebike and I would have been happier with a smaller and more discreet display so it's possible it will get swapped anyway...

Overall, how problematic have people found our climate with their kits?

C

I like the TSDZ2 for its lighter weight and price vs Bafang. It is aimed at folks who want to pedal rather than roar around with a throttle. I have fitted about 10 with good results - bar 1.

Water has got into the main drive gear and it has rusted resulting in noise. 2 of the seals have become distorted. I will replace the motor for my customer and I should be able to repair this one. In future I will inspect them and use Silicone Grease, like plumbers.

 

[Bikes4two]

................Water has got into the main drive gear and it has rusted resulting in noise. 2 of the seals have become distorted. I will replace the motor for my customer and I should be able to repair this one. In future I will inspect them and use Silicone Grease, like plumbers.

Yup, I had that problem with a friend's bike (LINK) - I said I could probably get it back to working order but being an impatient sort he just bought another and gave me his old one which I've stripped down and am in the process of re-building.

I love how easy these motors are to strip down and replaceable parts are easy to come by.

Oh, and of course, I love the torque assist ride - I often cycle with the local group, them with their expensive Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc and my TSDZ2 is as quiet if not quieter than most of them and I smile inwardly at all that money I saved