Radrunner Cargo E-Bike? No, it's the new Fiido T1

[cyclebuddy]

Unusually for Fiido (i.e. without any advance warning or indiegogo funding) Fiido have launched their T1 Cargo Bike... although it seems only in the US so far (30/12/21).

It's clearly a blatant copy of the Radrunner - much praised for it's versatile cargo carrying abilities.

Fiido have lowered the rear cargo deck (which is likely a good thing for balance), and include as standard the front carry rack and what Rad call their "premium" super powerful dual beam front light - both of which Rad charge extra for. The Fiido version has gearing too - which the original Radrunner didn't, but some say is much needed especially on the EU/UK version with its smaller 250w motor (rather than the 500/750w version the Americans get). Fiido's T1 also appears to me to have their massive L3 battery - 48v 23.2Ah 18650 celled 1000 cycle battery - although as there are scant few details published and no reviews as yet, it's difficult to say exactly what is fitted. But at £1,200, it looks a pretty promising alternative to the award-winning Radrunner to me.

 

[egroover]

Looks interesting, and if it comes with that size battery, that's a lot of bike for the money...I wonder how much it'll cost to ship to the UK and with the dreaded Brexit tax..

 

[cyclebuddy]

Like most e-bike manufacturers, my guess is Fiido are having trouble keeping up with demand. Fiido now have their own distribution warehouses in UK, EU, 2 in America, and a very new one in Dubai. They had worldwide launches of three other new models this year (D21, M21, X) - one went out of stock in the first week, another sold out the very first day it was launched.

My guess is this fourth new launch, this T1 Cargo e-bike, will come to the UK, as all their e-bike models have previously, once this heightened pandemic demand subsides.

Pricing of all models has AFAIK always remained the same wherever sold.

 

[gsm.terra]

Damn, iv'e just ordered a Radrunner 2. Ah well!

 

[Gorillazilla]

Unusually for Fiido (i.e. without any advance warning or indiegogo funding) Fiido have launched their T1 Cargo Bike... although it seems only in the US so far (30/12/21).

How difficult would it be to Modify this bike so it has the same 750W motor and wheel on the front fork? Should be easy enough to find a place for the second ESC and battery somewhere.

Just looks like you wouldn't be able to fit the stock rear wheel motor between the front forks...

Do they have a Front motor version of that wheel that does not have the derailleur cassette and is narrow enough to fit the forks?

This would be the perfect bike for me, but I live in Hilly Wales and want to climb mountains efficiently, so the single 750W motor would not be running in its efficient speed range up steep hills.

 

[guerney]

@750W...the thought of getting 5 Oh'd on the road while hauling heavy pumpkins, puts me off. And I don't like that the battery sticks out of the rear rack, limits available space. The battery doesn't stick out of the Radrunner rear rack.

 

[cyclebuddy]

...so the single 750W motor would not be running in its efficient speed range up steep hills.

I've read there'll be a UK/EU legal version available from April time with a 250w motor. It may be both 250w & 750w versions are made available, as with their D31/X model; the US 350w/20mph version is available alongside the UK/EU legal 250w/15.5mph version and either can be bought in the UK. That D1 motor you cite is for a (discontinued model) 16" wheeled bike.

That battery is a HUGE 48v/20Ah (23.2Ah?): That's impressive for a bike costing a shade under £1200.

 

[guerney]

I've read there'll be a UK/EU legal version available from April time with a 250w motor. It may be both 250w & 750w versions are made available, as with their D31/X model; the US 350w/20mph version is available alongside the UK/EU legal 250w/15.5mph version and either can be bought in the UK. That D1 motor you cite is for a (discontinued model) 16" wheeled bike.

That battery is a HUGE 48v/20Ah (23.2Ah?): That's impressive for a bike costing a shade under £1200.

This weight @250W? Probably not great for cargo duties - I'll stick with 36v 250W bbs01b on a light Dahon (usable pannier rack is about the same size)... although.... I do like the comfy ( and heavy) looking suspension

Net Weight (KG)	36.2KG
Gross Weight（KG）	45KG

 

[cyclebuddy]

Yeah, but the Radrunner is 29kg net against 36kg net (the Radrunner not including the metal front basket, HD light or wooden deck board - they're all Radrunner extra cost items). And the Radrunner has no suspension fork or seat suspension, has no gearing at all, and has a much smaller battery... and that has a 250w motor too. The Radrunner's higher cargo deck likely makes it less stable carrying a heavy rear load too.

Given the T1 is also cheaper by time you add the Rad's extras...

It's horses for courses. With a 250w motor, at least with gearing on the T1, you might actually get your cargo up those Welsh hills whereas with the Radrunner I'm guessing it'd be difficult at best.

 

[guerney]

For pedelecs, the law should limit speed, not power (<2000W?). We'd see many more cargo carrying bikes on the roads, being useful.

 

[matthewslack]

For pedelecs, the law should limit speed, not power (<2000W?). We'd see many more cargo carrying bikes on the roads, being useful.

I saw a description of rules relating to power for the speed pedelec class, and foolishly didn't make a note of the source, so now cannot find it, from I think 2008.

It included a maximum ratio of assistance relative to pedal input of 400%. That way of limiting power makes good sense to me. Sub 25kph it could stay as max 250W, and you only have to move the pedals, but for higher speed and/or power the rider has to 'earn' the assistance.

 

[guerney]

I saw a description of rules relating to power for the speed pedelec class, and foolishly didn't make a note of the source, so now cannot find it, from I think 2008.

It included a maximum ratio of assistance relative to pedal input of 400%. That way of limiting power makes good sense to me. Sub 25kph it could stay as max 250W, and you only have to move the pedals, but for higher speed and/or power the rider has to 'earn' the assistance.

I'd very much like that way of limiting power if I were younger and fitter, but at my age with very dodgy knees, that wouldn't be enough assistance to prevent knee pain. Such low assistance levels would preclude older people, and those with medical issues, for whom pedelecing otherwise would provide many health benefits. I use 16ah+ per mile, that's my comfort level and I'm sticking to it... or there's hell to pay with my knees for days. I'd much prefer a simple speed limit in law, with power limited to about 2000W to enable the delivery of substantial cargos.

 

[matthewslack]

I'd very much like that way of limiting power if I were younger and fitter, but at my age with very dodgy knees, that wouldn't be enough assistance to prevent knee pain. Such low assistance levels would preclude older people, and those with medical issues, for whom pedelecing otherwise would provide many health benefits. I use 16ah+ per mile, that's my comfort level and I'm sticking to it... or there's hell to pay with my knees for days. I'd much prefer a simple speed limit in law, with power limited to about 2000W to enable the delivery of substantial cargos.

Good points. More power for moving more weight makes sense, it's just how to control speed when unladen, given that much power, in a simple enforceable and safe for everyone around kind of way.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Good points. More power for moving more weight makes sense, it's just how to control speed when unladen, given that much power, in a simple enforceable and safe for everyone around kind of way.

Fiido have two versions of a fat-tyre 20" wheel folding ebike - the 250w 36v M1 and the 500w 48v M1Pro - both cadence sensored. The 500w version outsells the 250w version by some margin, and the biggest complaint with it is the uncontrollable torque from start.

They've just launched a new version of the same bike - the M21. The only real difference is it's a 48v 500w motor stamped as 250w, but with a true torque sensor. That seems to cure the problem.

Given the weight of the T1 cargo bike, they may well do something similar - a 48v 500w motor stamped as 250w? We'll have to see.

 

[guerney]

Good points. More power for moving more weight makes sense, it's just how to control speed when unladen, given that much power, in a simple enforceable and safe for everyone around kind of way.

Because my bike started light (and I'd lost 2.5 stones), I had scary lurches even at 250W... but for Bafangs there's apps for that: setting "Start Current" to 10% sorted it out. It's wonderful that the Bafang comms protocol was progressively hacked by so many willing to risk bricking their controllers. I wanted to buy a Fiido about 15 months ago, but there was no way to do so at a reasonable cost, and the wait would have been too long (Brexit)... but ultimately I'm glad I converted using a bbs01b kit, because I don't see that such adjustments are possible in Fiido firmware. My bike pre-conversion was 10.7 kg, but with three lights, heavier wheels to accommodate wider tyres, wider tyres, horn, wing mirrors, bottle holder, phone holder plus the kit etc. etc. it's probably closer to 20kg now (must buy a luggage scale to weigh it). I'll just get a bike trailer to haul pumpkins. If I need more oomph, I'll incraase controller amps from 15A to 20A.

I'd like to see 2000W cargo ebikes with two hubs and lightweight independent traction control for each wheel.

 

[Gorillazilla]

Good points. More power for moving more weight makes sense, it's just how to control speed when unladen, given that much power, in a simple enforceable and safe for everyone around kind of way.

That's really easy actually, Even with the Cyclone 3000W mid drive. You can tell the controller to limit max speed to 15 MPH

When it senses that speed from the magnet on wheel and magnetic sensor, it backs off.

Just means you can Chug up any hill at 15MPH while also not going any faster on the flat.



Legal Speed limit should be 15MPH on bicycle and public paths where any bicycle can be used, and 30MPH when used on roads for safety reasons, so you can flow with traffic.

 

[matthewslack]

That's really easy actually, Even with the Cyclone 3000W mid drive. You can tell the controller to limit max speed to 15 MPH

When it senses that speed from the magnet on wheel and magnetic sensor, it backs off.

Just means you can Chug up any hill at 15MPH while also not going any faster on the flat.



Legal Speed limit should be 15MPH on bicycle and public paths where any bicycle can be used, and 30MPH when used on roads for safety reasons, so you can flow with traffic.

The technology is the easy bit! Officialdom has to worry about enforceability. In theory at 250W there is a limit to how much harm can be done by derestricting.

Not so at 2000W.

What I would not want to see is the closing off of simple cheap low power conversions as the price of having more power but in a tightly controlled system.

Really, sorting out the speed pedelec class in the UK, with proper options for insurance at sensible cost covers most higher power needs.

 

[guerney]

My 250W bbs01b converted bike is legal, but if derestricted would get to just over 21mph, but if I increase the controller amps to 20A, I might get to it's no-load speed of 24+mph (limited by gearing), which is a harmful speed at which to hit anything on a bicycle IMHO. People who derestrict should be booked by Danno, if we had enough Dannos, but there are not enough Dannos therefore illegal speedsters risk ruining the party for legal pedelecers - I'd still prefer a simple speed limit plus a sensible power limit, to enable greater use of ebikes for cargo carriage duties. <=2000W would shift big loads, city air might become cleaner, the roads a little quieter.

 

[soundwave]

People who derestrict should be booked by Danno, if we had enough Dannos, but there are not enough Dannos therefore illegal speedsters risk ruining the party for legal pedelecers - I'd still prefer a simple speed limit plus a sensible power limit, to enable greater use of ebikes for cargo carriage duties. <=2000W would shift big loads, city air might become cleaner, the roads a little quieter.

the fact that you can change the speed limit means by law it is not road legal, i had to buy a dongle for my bike at a rip off price because i cant change the speed limit as it is software locked not even a dealer can change this.

Derestriction, ‘off-road’ switches or modes and dongles

The Department of Transport say that electric bikes fitted with off-road switches or modes, that enable a bike’s motor to continue assisting to speeds beyond 15.5mph, do not comply with UK EAPC law. The term ‘off-road’ suggests that these bikes can be ridden on parkland, forests or other places away from main roads, which isn’t accurate. E-bikes with increased motor power (continuous rated power above 250w) or increased speed (with motor assistance not cutting out at 15.5mph) cannot be used legally as bicycles anywhere on land accessible by the public; when riding on private land you would need permission from the landowner.

and dont forget ebike shop one of the biggest ebike dealers in the uk fits dongles to there bikes and honor the warranty and the complete opposite to what bosch says.

eBike tuning – illegal and dangerous

Technical manipulations to the pedelec are a safety risk. If an accident occurs, it may result in high liability costs and criminal prosecution. Bosch asks all eBike riders and providers to refrain from tuning.

www.bosch-ebike.com

 

[guerney]

the fact that you can change the speed limit means by law it is not road legal, i had to buy a dongle for my bike at a rip off price because i cant change the speed limit as it is software locked not even a dealer can change this.

Derestriction, ‘off-road’ switches or modes and dongles

The Department of Transport say that electric bikes fitted with off-road switches or modes, that enable a bike’s motor to continue assisting to speeds beyond 15.5mph, do not comply with UK EAPC law. The term ‘off-road’ suggests that these bikes can be ridden on parkland, forests or other places away from main roads, which isn’t accurate. E-bikes with increased motor power (continuous rated power above 250w) or increased speed (with motor assistance not cutting out at 15.5mph) cannot be used legally as bicycles anywhere on land accessible by the public; when riding on private land you would need permission from the landowner.

and dont forget ebike shop one of the biggest ebike dealers in the uk fits dongles to there bikes and honor the warranty and the complete opposite to what bosch says.

eBike tuning – illegal and dangerous

Technical manipulations to the pedelec are a safety risk. If an accident occurs, it may result in high liability costs and criminal prosecution. Bosch asks all eBike riders and providers to refrain from tuning.

www.bosch-ebike.com

If you have to stop at the roadside, whip out a USB programming cable, disconnect the display cable, attach the USB programming cable to the wiring loom, to connect your laptop or phone to the Bafang controller to change speed limit - it's not a switch. But opinions vary.