Question re what conversion kit will allow slow-pedalling/give knees a rest

[jonathan75]

What a bummer Jon , have you emailed the Chinese co yet? With pay pal you still have to use a credit card try speaking to the card co as well. Don't give in and except some inferior cheaper kit.

Yes after my last post I thankfully got an email, inviting me to resend photos of the wrong motor, so I'm just being as nice as I can with the seller and hoping they feel really embarassed and want to help me. Thanks for your encouragement. Agreed re giving in, I just don't think I'd have spent a penny of that cash were it not for being promised that specific motor.

That's a good point about credit card. In my experience cc providers try to say "oh whatever the service provider's (paypal's) terms are we hold you to them, even if they can be struck out for unfairness or whatever reason". I think that can be got around, but not until until paypal refuse to honour their guarantee AND a small claims judge declares the refusal some form of breach of contract (and it would probably be easier at that point just to ask the judge to hold paypal liable for the amount of the refund). Sometimes of course the cc provider sees sense much quicker (usually with straight goods purchases which they understand better). Fingers crossed the seller will come through though.

 

[Nealh]

Sounds a bit more promising Jon, let us (forum) know of any out come.

 

[jonathan75]

Looks like you were right Neal about them trying to fob me off - here's the reply just now.

"Hello
Sorry it was our mistake
the LCD controller can fit the motor
how about we refund the different cost to solve the problem?"



How about he [deleted] is the first thought! Definitely going to name this firm when this gets sorted.

 

[jonathan75]

So it finally arrived. Happiness

 

[Nealh]

Nice,shiny and new. Good cutomer service in the end, give them credit for re- supplying the right item instead of being fobbed off.

 

[patpatbut]

This is what I am using it now. Running happily after 4000 miles

 

[jonathan75]

That's true Neal it was very good of them. Elifebike. It was good customer service, really good in fact.

Pat that sounds very promising! I've read they have a rated life of 5 years

 

[jonathan75]

Does anyone know if this CST 250w (350w/'HT'/180mm) rated 36v can take a 48v battery?

It turns out it is mega crap on hills at 36v even at 23a, and forget about it at 15a. It is definitely nowhere near a 201rpm. 270+ more like. I get 22mph easy on the flat on throttle at 15a, and 25mph with a tiny and I mean tiny bit of pedalling.

So I'm pretty upset with Elifebike and Stephen Deng (again).

 

[selrahc1992]

Does anyone know if this CST 250w (350w/'HT'/180mm) rated 36v can take a 48v battery?

It turns out it is mega crap on hills at 36v even at 23a, and forget about it at 15a. It is definitely nowhere near a 201rpm. 270+ more like. I get 22mph easy on the flat on throttle at 15a, and 25mph with a tiny and I mean tiny bit of pedalling.


So I'm pretty upset with Elifebike and Stephen Deng (again).

I'm sorry to hear about the ordeal,its the kind of crap one doesn't need. One obvious way forward I guess is to put it in a 26 wheel? I ordered a BPM from BMS in a 20 wheel and built it into a folder which absolutely tops out at 20 mph and am planning to go for bigger wheeled bike for some speed

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Motors don'tcare about voltage, but if you go higher, the efficiency at low speed reduces, so you get over-heating during hill-climbing if you go too slow. If you want decent hill-climbing, the 500w one is much better. It responds to more current and will run happily at 30A. The 250w/350w ones tespond up to about 20A, then they become saturated, so a more powerful controller doesn't add any power.

 

[jonathan75]

Motors don'tcare about voltage, but if you go higher, the efficiency at low speed reduces, so you get over-heating during hill-climbing if you go too slow. If you want decent hill-climbing, the 500w one is much better. It responds to more current and will run happily at 30A. The 250w/350w ones tespond up to about 20A, then they become saturated, so a more powerful controller doesn't add any power.

Does that mean that at 23a, 3a is just wasted, and if so is that at all speeds or just at full throttle?

Yes the 500w looks perfect in principle. But I had a look at the solicitors' regulations today and proper criminal convictions can lead to being forbidden from practicing, and I reckon a law enforcer on a target might be willing to prosecute me for driving without insurance etc.

Of course I could always paint on a 250w marking but if I made a statement about that it could be an even more seserious offence.

I'll have you sent a bottle of good champagne if you can persuade your friends in China to label some serious motors as 250w! [emoji3] [emoji485]

 

[jonathan75]

Although I think I'm going to try to lobby for some EU action on this because I cannot see the purpose of the wattage rating limit,at least I don't think it's a proportionate response, a rational means of achieving a legitimate goal, nor the least restrictive means, especially given top speed is the real issue, 250w motors can do 30mph,and this rule has a disproportionate effect on the disabled. It fails to achieve a good balance of benefits and harms.

 

[selrahc1992]

Although I think I'm going to try to lobby for some EU action on this because I cannot see the purpose of the wattage rating limit,at least I don't think it's a proportionate response, a rational means of achieving a legitimate goal, nor the least restrictive means, especially given top speed is the real issue, 250w motors can do 30mph,and this rule has a disproportionate effect on the disabled. It fails to achieve a good balance of benefits and harms.

for what it's worth, the oxygen 13Ah kit gives (IMHO) loads of assistance. Now that I'm used to it I sometimes wonder whether it may be too much. My steepest hill is about 30% - recently I had about 100kg on the bike (me included) and didn't feel able to pedal much beyond just activating the motor. it stomped up at 6mph - I wouldn't do that on a long hill, but it can do it with really minimal pedalling.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Are you sure it was 30% or is it another Strava misrepresentation? I wouldn't expect that motor to manage a 30% hill without a lot of help fom the rider if the bike has 100kg on board. I have the 500w version of that motor with double the current. 30% still takes a bit of effort on that.

 

[flecc]

Although I think I'm going to try to lobby for some EU action on this because I cannot see the purpose of the wattage rating limit,at least I don't think it's a proportionate response, a rational means of achieving a legitimate goal, nor the least restrictive means, especially given top speed is the real issue, 250w motors can do 30mph,and this rule has a disproportionate effect on the disabled. It fails to achieve a good balance of benefits and harms.

You'll be wasting your time. In 2014 the European Parliament recommended removal of pedelec wattage power limits on the same rational basis, but despite that, after consideration the EU Commission rejected the proposal. They are highly unlikely to now admit being wrong and do a volte-face.

Disability is not at issue. The pedelec law exists purely to give cyclists moderate power assistance to supplement their pedalling, hence the regulation specifying that power stops when pedalling stops. Fundamental to that is them being cyclists, implying sufficient physical ability to permit cycling in most circumstances.

Those unable through disability to measure up to the requirement have provisions in law. One is the mobility vehicle, essentially a motorised chair restricted to 4mph (pavement) and 8 mph (road). Another to give greater flexibility of use is a car, modified if necessary to fit specific disabilities.
.

 

[selrahc1992]

Are you sure it was 30% or is it another Strava misrepresentation? I wouldn't expect that motor to manage a 30% hill without a lot of help fom the rider if the bike has 100kg on board. I have the 500w version of that motor with double the current. 30% still takes a bit of effort on that.

apologies all, its 19% on average with bits that are a little higher - this
http://www.doogal.co.uk/RouteElevation.php
is a really easy way to calculate elevation of any road on google maps between two points, apparently. It was two panniers full of flint and a heavy chain lock (around 30 plus kg) and I - I find it does do it easy, but its a short hill and I hit it with as much speed as possible, wouldn't want to start against it

 

[mfj197]

Does anyone know if this CST 250w (350w/'HT'/180mm) rated 36v can take a 48v battery?

It turns out it is mega crap on hills at 36v even at 23a, and forget about it at 15a.

for what it's worth, the oxygen 13Ah kit gives (IMHO) loads of assistance. Now that I'm used to it I sometimes wonder whether it may be too much. My steepest hill is about 30% - recently I had about 100kg on the bike (me included) and didn't feel able to pedal much beyond just activating the motor. it stomped up at 6mph - I wouldn't do that on a long hill, but it can do it with really minimal pedalling.

Aren't these two the same motor?

 

[selrahc1992]

Aren't these two the same motor?

different windings/speed

 

[JohnCade]

You'll be wasting your time. In 2014 the European Parliament recommended removal of pedelec wattage power limits on the same rational basis, but despite that, after consideration the EU Commission rejected the proposal. They are highly unlikely to now admit being wrong and do a volte-face.

Disability is not at issue. The pedelec law exists purely to give cyclists moderate power assistance to supplement their pedalling, hence the regulation specifying that power stops when pedalling stops. Fundamental to that is them being cyclists, implying sufficient physical ability to permit cycling in most circumstances.

Those unable through disability to measure up to the requirement have provisions in law. One is the mobility vehicle, essentially a motorised chair restricted to 4mph (pavement) and 8 mph (road). Another to give greater flexibility of use is a car, modified if necessary to fit specific disabilities.
.

Didn’t you post about some changes to the regs starting next year which will allow much higher powered bikes with throttles, but still limited to 25kph? Perfect for the less able I would have thought.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, but how much power and torque you get also depends on the conroller. Jonathan is still trying to find how to get the best out of his one. He's disovered that it isn't always as simple as just connecting the two together, especially if you leave out vital ingredients, like the display/control panel.