Question on smoothness of power output of electric motor - Wisper 705SE

[flecc]

Germans want German production, and hubs are generally cheap imports (as far as I am aware!).....

Largely true these days, but Germany's Heinzmann were the first in the world to produce a commercial hub motor, back in 1922.

They are still going, LINK
.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Largely true these days, but Germany's Heinzmann were the first in the world to produce a commercial hub motor, back in 1922.

They are still going, LINK

Interesting and thanks.
Most of the e-bikes here where I live are probably 95% Bosch, some happy owners, some not, but its mainly only the "weekends when its sunny and warm" riders.....
Rest of the time they use the car to travel about a mile to the next township!!!
Really wasted money!
regards
Andy
PS. I have owned 2 Chinese rear hubs over 12 years, and little or no problems with either of them.
First one needed a new chain and cassette after around 7 years, second one still all OK after 5 years....only wear is brake pads, around 2 sets a year front, 1 set rear, new tyres and tubes 1 or 2 times a year. Plus bike wheel hub adjustments for wear........No other ptoblems....I buy only armoured tyres and tubes as they have got quite cheap recently IMHO!

 

[AndyBike]

Armoured tubes ?. Never heard of them.

I have owned 2 Chinese rear hubs over 12 years, and little or no problems with either of them.

Then I would say you've been incredibly fortunate. The vast majority, and by which i mean 99% of all threads posted on this forum concerning problems and breakdowns, is concerning hub motors.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Armoured tubes ?. Never heard of them.



Then I would say you've been incredibly fortunate. The vast majority, and by which i mean 99% of all threads posted on this forum concerning problems and breakdowns, is concerning hub motors.

Dear AndyBike, thanks for your thoughts, but speaking generally about Pedelec, the main problems seem to be with high usage mid motors on pedelec, detailing their short lived chains and other gear components. There are a bundle of such problems.
So, guessing only, you must be on other web sites for the problems you describe, as they are very rare on Pedelec. So it must be other sites, ones I have never visited myself, or know about, so would you be so kind as to post me links detailing the problems you have seen/heard about with hub motors please?
I really seem to be missing out on such knowledge completely!!
Thanks in advance.
Andy

 

[AndyBike]

so would you be so kind as to post me links detailing the problems you have seen/heard about with hub motors please?

You'll have to forgive me for the delay. Im only on page 7 and thus far its only been about 12 hub motor threads concerning new members looking for help with their broken down hub motor driven steed.

I'm surprised though that you're unaware given you've replied on many of them.

I'll get there eventually, and who knows, I might even have a mid drive motor or two to add to the list.
I'm sure that would make you happy

 

[Andy-Mat]

You'll have to forgive me for the delay. Im only on page 7 and thus far its only been about 12 hub motor threads concerning new members looking for help with their broken down hub motor driven steed.

I'm surprised though that you're unaware given you've replied on many of them.

I'll get there eventually, and who knows, I might even have a mid drive motor or two to add to the list.
I'm sure that would make you happy

The sheer number of hub bikes sold, which forms 77% of the market, does imply, even if the same percentage of problems for each ty, that there will be far more hub bikes affected. But as they are generally simpler, parts cheaper, that is still not the case, but some get mislead into thinking that way! See further down, as I cover that in a simpler way, easier to understand.

I also post on some mid motor problems, and in my opinion, the many mid motor problems are far worse than any hub problem for the owner to handle, which is why I was asking you for more infos with regards to hubs, as basically none of the hub motor problems are lethal to your wallet, even if the motor must be completely replaced.
If a hub motor goes wrong, you can probably buy 3 new ones, with full guarantee, for less than the cost of a single Bosch mid motor replacement, for example.
And the Bosch motor replacement (must be installed by Bosch or their agent!) will usually be a repaired one, not even brand new!
A new hub bike, complete with all the extras, and including delivery and import taxes, will be available for less than a third of the price of a Bosch mid motor e-bike, allowing a careful hub owner/buyer, to buy a complete spare bike, for any replacement parts that he might need, and still have change over a new Bosch e-bike!
I am sure somewhere there is a hub bike with CANBUS, but that is easily avoided if you do not want to have such a BUS, but it is well known that some mid motor e-bikes with the CANBUS, can end up bricking your controller and/or battery, if you decide to have a go at repairing it yourself, as can happen on some Bosch examples (and others I believe!).
So I am at a loss to fully understand why anyone seeks to demonstrate that hub e-bikes are so bad, especially when the the greatest market share, and still increasing, is the hub motor market. Simply because of the proven reliability, due to simpler mechanics, far lower costs and easy availablity.
I can state with my hand on a bible, that I have never seen the insid of either of my e-bike motors (and only one other that got flooded last year or the year before), because there has not been a need up to now to open one up! Pictures are few and far between.
But if anyone on Pedelec needs information about a mid motor problem, there are many here with in depth knowledge and pictures to help, all immediately to hand, which tells often a sorry tale!!
You may find this website pf interest:-

E-bike Market Size to Worth Around USD 53.63 Billion by 2033

The global e-bike market size is expected to be worth around USD 53.63 billion by 2033 increasing from USD 22.09 billion in 2024, expanding at a CAGR of 10.16%.

www.precedenceresearch.com

Where it states that:-
By Motor Type: Hub motor dominated the global e-bike market with the highest revenue share of nearly 77% in the year 2020 and expected to maintain the same trend over the forecast time frame as well. The main factor driving their demand is less or minimum maintenance required as they do not exert pressure on the drivetrain and operate independently.

So this demostrates that hubs outsell mid motor by a ratio of 77:23 %. Therefore, without even the chasm of purchase price differences between both types, the size difference of the sales makes comparing them quite fraught.
As even if percentage wise, say they both had the same number of problems, the vast ease of correcting a hub problem, such that even a DIYer can do it, and the small cost of parts in comparison, still makes hub bikes a better buy!
Which makes me say that it appears that not only are e-bikes bought by shoppers with care price wise, they are also demonstrating good sense in the mechanical cost of repair/replacement areas as well!

Other web sites also maintain that hubs get less problems, even though there are generally speaking at least four times (or) more of them bought and used.....

Talking about German e-bike owners that I personally know (most of which have bough Bosch, as they bellieved it was a wholly German made bike!), not a single one of them was previously (before purchase) informed about Bosch guarantee problems, CANBUS possible problems, Possible chain drive problems, possible software bricking, or any other of the possible negative aspects of many mid motor e-bikes! Though the information was and is, easily found on the internet, so they were all lazy!

As we say in Germany, "they were all still virgins when they had their first baby!!" But the secret is now out apparently, and hub motor e-bikes have increased their already strong lead over the last few years, even here....

Regards for a great day
Andy