Quarter of All E-Bike Batteries Faulty

[anotherkiwi]

Quarter of All E-Bike Batteries Faulty

Well who would have thought. Could Bosch be cheating with more than emissions?

 

[trex]

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2015/11/quarter-of-all-e-bike-batteries-faulty-10125131

Take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[flecc]

Quarter of All E-Bike Batteries Faulty

Well who would have thought. Could Bosch be cheating with more than emissions?

The link isn't working, but here's a new one to the source.

Not just Bosch of course, the article reveals the false belief that these batteries will last many years. We've long known that's not the case. It's a fundamental problem for e-bikes, since for weight reasons they have to have relatively small batteries with high discharge characteristics. And that's the shortest lived type of lithium battery. Cheapest ones can fail in little over a year, average ones two to three years depending on use, and the batteries of lower powered bikes with the best battery and motor management can live for four or even five or more years.

I don't think 84% failing by the three year point is abnormal. Remember the Dutch cycle all the time daily for everything, so they work their bikes over large mileages and many riding hours.

I've forecast in here a number of times that the Dutch will fall out of love with e-bikes once they've experienced longer term ownership. They need them least in their flat country and their very slow cycling speeds, so once the costs and aggro are experienced, many will switch back to pedal only and the current huge sales boom will drop right off.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Thanks trex corrected my link. The panel is 20,000 riders if 5,000 have had a problem with their battery it seems quite significant.

 

[trex]

'nearly 40% of them presented problems already within one year after purchase.'

That would suggest a very substantial warranty claims, 40% * 25% = 10% of bikes sold. That's just not borned out by what I know.

 

[anotherkiwi]

My understanding of "the Dutch way of thought" would be to say that 40% of those 25% had problems within a year. Which would be 10% of the panel. Dutch weather (very cold winters) and usage could explain higher failure rates there. We know that Lithium batteries don't like freezing temperatures.

 

[trex]

I can believe that 25% of bikes need a new battery after 3 years but I am surpised by the 10% in year one.
I would have thought that something like 2% in year one, 8% in year two and 15% in year three would be more believable.

 

[flecc]

That would suggest a very substantial warranty claims, 40% * 25% = 10% of bikes sold. That's just not borned out by what I know.

I suppose it's a question of what is considered faulty. Take my experience of the earliest lithium manganese batteries which were poor. I had them fail on hills as early as three months, but used only on the flat they would keep going but the range had dropped considerably. But of course the Dutch don't have hills so they'd just experience range loss with their constant usage, which dealers etc might just fob off as being within normal, not covered by warranty.

After all, we still have the same problems in here, newish e-bikers disappointed when their batteries show the usual signs of decline just into the second year, earlier battery LED indications and shortened range.
.

 

[craiggor]

Why don't the manufactures make balance chargers.People I see on the internet who make their own packs all seem to include balance charging.

 

[trex]

all the Lithium-ion e-bike batteries have built in BMS that does balance charging.

 

[craiggor]

all the Lithium-ion e-bike batteries have built in BMS that does balance charging.

I opened a drill battery it only had one balance wire leading to the BMS.I took out the BMS and put in 5 balance wires.I now charge with my own balance charger.Don't know if it any better or not but I can now charge that battery at any rate.After what I had looked at on the internet I just thought the battery was designed to fail.or should I say could of been made better.

 

[trex]

it's difficult to make a better BMS (aka PCM board) than what you see at the moment. Some have bluetooth connection, auto deep sleep, auto wake up, smart fuel gauge and data logging functions that you can interrogate using a smart phone or PC. Battery cells for e-bikes are selected for a range of characteristics, built in safety device, 0.1C-0.2C charging current, very low leakage, optimized for 2C discharge rate etc, don't underestimate the amount of work going in there. Samsung and Panasonic cells are widely used and have good reputation for reliability.

 

[craiggor]

And if any of that goes you have a poor or dead battery.

 

[Emo Rider]

That would suggest a very substantial warranty claims, 40% * 25% = 10% of bikes sold. That's just not borned out by what I know.

I am in agreement with you. I have been involved with ebike sales and repairs for three years. Hundreds of bike sold and very, very few battery problems relating to the cells. Faulty switches and bad solder is what I found most times. But again not many of those either. Never have had an issue with a Bosch, Panisonic, or Yamaha battery, touch wood. I do find issues with chargers though.

 

[trex]

And if any of that goes you have a poor or dead battery.

agreed but gravimetric energy density goes up about 10% per annum, after 3 year, it's justified to replace the old battery with a new lighter one. The cells themselves contain a tiny amount of hazardous substances, so their throwaway does not cause much environmental harm.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The cells themselves contain a tiny amount of hazardous substances, so their throwaway does not cause much environmental harm.

You mean to say "recycling"

 

[v.s.o.p.]

That's why i love my Bosch Classic line. It's so DIY friendly, one can recell old battery in under an hour - with unused cells for just around 100 euro.

 

[soundwave]

you can add more as well if you mod the case

 

[v.s.o.p.]

you can add more as well if you mod the case

no joke i thought about it - but to make it longer and still looking good i would have to re weld the lock on the frame - and this is something im not ready for (it would break my heart to taint the paintjob)

 

[electrickery]

Faulty is so subjective with batteries unless glaringly obvious.. Usage and maintenance has a big effect on life. My cyclotricity battery now coming into its fourth year and circa 1800 miles is almost as good as new range. I use it lightly ( low to medium power mostly ) and recreational use.. and always maintain it at about 3/4 charge when not in use.. boost it in winter every 6 weeks if not used . will still do 30 + miles on low power . Understanding correct maintenance goes a long way to preserving batteries.