Purchase advice please

[banbury frank]

Hi Polar

Thanks for your posting That is Just what this forum is about letting others know your

Findings

Great posting Please keep it updated



Frank

 

[Polar753]

Forum member EddieO rated the Flyer X very highly apart from the price, but bought a KTM.

What happened to EddieO's KTM? There seemed to be some sobbing in previous thred?? The price seems really good, are the components up to it?

I'm struggling with nearly 3K on the Haibike with an as yet unproven system. Someone in Germany had one fail after three months, admittedly after hard use. Haibike eQ Xduro - Motorschaden mit Bosch nach drei Monaten täglichen Einsatzes - YouTube

I have a few concerns over reliability, hamming it off road really tests bike components, the 29 inch wheel strength is a really good point, thanks oigoi.

I do have a few doubts that any e mtb system can cope with hard off road use, so replacement parts availability and cost is a big factor, I don't want to have to spend loads every year fixing it after the warranty expires, or have to severely restrict how its used to avoid damage.

Anyone know what a replacement system costs? That is a big factor for me, as with any off roading, I expect it to break sometimes, knowing how to fix it again is all part of the fun. I think the Panasonic system was replaced as a whole unit, anyone have any idea of cost?

Being miles away from the supplier, I cant just drop in to get it fixed, I like to be able to replace anything myself if possible, I have been known to strip a grinding bottom bracket half way through a long ride, long time ago...

 

[Polar753]

Hi Polar

Thanks for your posting That is Just what this forum is about letting others know your

Findings

Great posting Please keep it updated



Frank

Thanks Frank.

I have just re-read my first post and it could be taken that I was having a dig. Not the case at all, in fact I think your passion to get cars off the road is great, and a good foundation for a business you believe in. I'm just looking for something that i'm not sure exists yet, getting close though. All the best.

 

[eddieo]

The Bosch KTM Macina we had I would think not really suitable for serious off road stuff (along with some of the recommendations on here!) I had to get rid as wife hated the crossbar and I need to get a step through to keep her happy

The idea was I would use the Bosch for exercise/every day cycling, which I did, and have the DaaHub for fun/speed. Then when we go away in our motorhome wife would use the KTM. She loved the system but crossbar was a real problem

The Haibike with full suspension is the only one really I guess for serious off road stuff. I would try the 250 watt first as it has plenty of power. The consensus (in Germany) seems to be that Bosch system is a better hill climber then Panasonic system. but latest 36 volt Panasonic may be as good but prices very high, far higher then then Haibike. when you look at prices of Flyer (dread to think what 36 volt will be!) The Haibike looks a bit of a bargain!

The KTM 29'er (20.7 kg/11 speed alfina) @ approx £2400 would do the job...Do you really need dual suspension, I dont know.....

Macina 29"

Both Kalkhoff and Flyer have Bosch powered bikes for 2012. The Kalkhoff S version start at around £2400 a bit of a bargain compared to new Panasonic system! But not an off road bike.......the flyer will be I would think...

 

[BobJ]

Many thanks for all the replies and advice everyone.

eddieo - I am gravitating towards a Haibike or KTM - are the KTM's available in the UK, or can you tell me where they are available?

Lynda - as above - having read everything I can find on the Tonaro it just seems to be a little too agricultural and the technology dated.

d8veh - I've decided that whatever I get will be crank driven, as much for aesthetics as anything else but they do seem to be generally considered best for hills. Although I'm sure I could build my own - I've built a kit car and a few motorbikes in the past - wanting a crank drive pretty much rules that out.

kitchenman - eastern valley (Cwmbran) - thanks for the pointer to Gruber Assist - it did interest me at first but it seems a little too small to be robust enough and I don't want to wear a battery!

steveindenmark - I could never give up motocycling, it's in my blood - will still have my road bike and a dirt bike for forest competitions but the bicycle will be for recreation. I certainly didn't think I'd ever get grief from other cyclist though - but no matter, I'm a big boy and can give as good as I get.

frank - 1500 watt, I want to ride it not fly it but thanks for the offer.

flecc - have read your posts for a few years now and appreciate your expertise in all things pedelec. Your advice to others was what originally set me on the course to a kalkhoff panasonic and I was about to buy a Pro Connect Disc but don't think it would cope too well with the type of off-roading I hope to do.

Polar753 - we seem to be looking for pretty much the same thing, and have come to the same conclusions. It seems that ebikes are evolving so quickly now that it is always tempting to wait for the next new best thing, like 350w motors, but as soon as that becomes available they'll announce the 500w motor and so on and so on, and I'd end up waiting forever. I believe a 250w motor with a range of about 25 miles per battery will be more that enough for me. Incidentally what would be your opinion of a pro connect being used off-road?

To everyone else, thank you very much for your advice, it's all been very much appreciated.

So far it's either a Haibike or a KTM.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

d8veh - I've decided that whatever I get will be crank driven, as much for aesthetics as anything else but they do seem to be generally considered best for hills. Although I'm sure I could build my own - I've built a kit car and a few motorbikes in the past - wanting a crank drive pretty much rules that out.

I'm not trying to convince you, but in case other people are reading and getting the wrong impression: It's a total myth that crank drives are better at climbing. It's only true for low power hub-motors. My £350 hub-drive Cyclamatic will beat any crank drive bike up steep hills by a considerable margin. A Bafang BPM motor will drag you up the steepest hills without pedaling. That's why Bafang call it the "Hillclimber". If you have time, have a look on the Endless-Sphere forum for how they do it - not a crank-drive in site. Instead, they tend to go for direct drive motors run at much higher voltages and currents to get speed and hill=climbing ability.
Endless-sphere.com • View forum - Electric Bicycles
Having said all that, most of these options are not legal in the UK.

 

[eddieo]

Many thanks for all the replies and advice everyone.

eddieo - I am gravitating towards a Haibike or KTM - are the KTM's available in the UK, or can you tell me where they are available?

So far it's either a Haibike or a KTM.

Both you and polar need little help as you had more or less worked it all out before posting....

KTM not available here as yet, got ours from Stadler.de but they dont have the 29'er. Just Google it or look at KTM website for a dealer. here is one:

http://www.e-bike-experte.de/ktm-macina-29.html (approx £2100)

Belgium has a few KTM bike dealers that will order in an E Bike for you, as we travel to Europe a fair bit this is what I will probably do next time. This is the dealer

Rijwielen Genico

and I dealt with: Ingrid Van den Bosch: vandenbosscheingrid@msn.com

I mentioned earlier that 50 cycles in London had a Haibike recently on offer? But justebikes sell at European prices plus you get the support if you break it!

you can buy just a frame with Bosch system fitted and build your own bike.... Cant find link at the moment, but it might be AVE or even KTM

let us know how you get on!

 

[Polar753]

Polar753 - we seem to be looking for pretty much the same thing, and have come to the same conclusions. It seems that ebikes are evolving so quickly now that it is always tempting to wait for the next new best thing, like 350w motors, but as soon as that becomes available they'll announce the 500w motor and so on and so on, and I'd end up waiting forever. I believe a 250w motor with a range of about 25 miles per battery will be more that enough for me. Incidentally what would be your opinion of a pro connect being used off-road?

So far it's either a Haibike or a KTM.

Hi Bob

At the end of the day it comes down to the right tool for the job, try and have an honest look at where you want to use the bike. My Pro Connect is a great bike and copes well with light off road, if its muddy, very steep, rocky, wet etc walking is the only option, its designed as a fast commuter and is excellent in that role.

The KTM bikes look great, and cost less than the Haibike, but I think I would end up walking down rocky stoney sections as the motor looks exposed. Haibike has a patent on upside down motor installation, very smart thing to do.

I agree that you could wait forever for the newest thing, although I have always wondered what I'm missing out on with the Pro Connect S, I wish I'd spent the extra.

So Haibike seems to fit the bill, I just need to write a cheque for £2759...

Then go and thrash it down a big hill, sounds like fun to me.

 

[eddieo]

A lot of Bosch bikes in Germany are used off road...I have yet to read of anyone smashing the crank motor while doing this. There is enough clearance, not as much as the haibike for sure, but if it was a problem (with hundreds of these bikes sold) it would have come up by now....

what you really need is this! (nearly £8000 though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmndpVTbnMs&feature=related

http://www.elektrofahrrad24.de/2012-elektrofahrrad-ktm-egnition-lim-88

 

[Polar753]

A lot of Bosch bikes in Germany are used off road...I have yet to read of anyone smashing the crank motor while doing this. There is enough clearance, not as much as the haibike for sure, but if it was a problem (with hundreds of these bikes sold) it would have come up by now....

what you really need is this! (nearly £8000 though)

KTM eGnition - Probefahrt im Zillertal - YouTube

MTB Pedelec KTM eGNITION lim 88 Elektrofahrrad mit cleanMOBILE-Antrieb – Elektrofahrrad24

Good to hear the Bosch kit is holding up well in Germany, I really do like the KTM bikes, I don't think 8K is going to be an easy conversation with the finance director(wife) anytime soon. Even if I "should not hesitate too long!" mmm I think I would prefer a zero motorcycle instead really. Electric Dirt Bikes || ZERO MOTORCYCLES

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

Being miles away from the supplier, I cant just drop in to get it fixed

Polar we deliver these Haibikes nationwide, and offer onsite servicing - you don't need to travel to us. But the Suffolk coast is a nice place for a weekend and we loan Sparta Koga and Haibikes to those that take the trouble to visit. Always best to try before you buy!

If you cant get to us we do a 'Buy before you try' with a twist.... if you don't like it after a test ride down your track and up your street you get your money back. (we deliver with our vehicles and our staff).

James

 

[steveindenmark]

Polar,

where are you located? That may help narrow the field down.

I am not sure what type of off road riding you are talking about. We spend most of our time on forest and farm tracks and have no problems with our Tonaros. I have an Enduro and Jannie has a Compy. They are fine in the wet and in the mud. They have crank motors so it means we can turn the power off on the flats and ride them like a normal bike without running the battery down.

They come with knobbly tyres but I changed mine for half knobbly tyres. We rode 60km a couple of Saturdays ago and still had loads of life left in them. The bikes really are bomb proof, because I really batter mine. We are both fit road cyclists but it is nice to get off road every now and again for a bit of fun and take it easy. Having the electric power means that not every ride out is a training session. I use mine for my 40km round trip to work and it is great.

If this sounds like something you are looking for they are sold by Phil at Powerpedals and he provides first class customer service as well.

Steve

 

[BobJ]

Very big thumbs up for James at Justebikes - I decided to go for a Haibike eQ Xduro FS just before going off to Cyprus for a short holiday 10 days ago and rang James to put a deposit on a Haibike before I went, with the intention of finalising things on my return.

Got back 36 hours later than planned due to a baggage handles strike at Paphos airport to find a shiny new Haibike waiting for me James had delivered it to my office on the day I was due to return and not only left the bike but also an excellent choice of quality accessories on a sale or return basis.

I was as surprised by James trust in me as I am pleased by the Haibike, it's a fantastic cycle with high quality components and superb build quality.

Went out for a test ride yesterday, the first time I have ridden any form of assisted cycle, and was amazed by the sensation of seamlessly becoming superman! A few friends also tried it out and they too were amazed, it's a really weird sensation and takes a little getting used to.

I live at the top of the valley side and whichever way I left home I had a great downhill ride for about a 1km @ 10% and another 2km @ 5%, which then turns into a tiring slog/walk to get back home at the end of the ride - not any more, I was amazed by how much difference the electric assistance made, I'm one very happy chappy