Problem with Proprietary Tech

[MikelBikel]

:-(

 

[Az.]

Yes, it is ridiculous. Cycling industry needs some standards like we have on PC market.

 

[Benjahmin]

OR go with a hub motor, generic controls and install your own kit and keep a few grand to go places.

What this guy is calling for makes sense but is never going to happen. The industrial lobbying might is too big and the understanding amongst politico's too small.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

OR go with a hub motor, generic controls and install your own kit and keep a few grand to go places.

What this guy is calling for makes sense but is never going to happen. The industrial lobbying might is too big and the understanding amongst politico's too small.

even mountain biking there is a selection of possible DIY mid drive motors which will be a fraction of the cost of the bikes in the video, Bafang, Tongshen, Toseven

 

[StuartsProjects]

What this guy is calling for makes sense but is never going to happen. The industrial lobbying might is too big and the understanding amongst politico's too small.

I agree its very unlikely to happen, it might have happened in the UK if we had stayed in the EU, there were suggestions of a 'right to repair' type scheme happening there.

But in the UK, I think our politicians are very unlikley to legislate on such issues. A cynic might assume thats because of donations and freebies the politicians accept from big business.

 

[Raboa]

Bikes in general have this problem.
Aero shaped seatposts, handlebars and stems that only fit a particular bike, numerous bottom bracket standards.

 

[soundwave]

they banned me from that forum as could not handle the fact you can rip out all that can bus crap and use 3rd party controllers and bms for the cells even on bosch motors.

the only reason is none of it is compatible is because it is throw away tech like everything and when the oem wont even sell you a bearing just get a bafang hd.

if you cant fix it you dont own it

 

[cyclebuddy]

I agree its very unlikely to happen, it might have happened in the UK if we had stayed in the EU, there were suggestions of a 'right to repair' type scheme happening there.

It doesn't matter if we're in the EU or not; if it happens there, we'll benefit too because what's being sold in Europe - bikes and parts - is exactly what we're getting here too. Nobody is making anything specific for the UK market - it's way too small.

More exciting would be an upstart making brackets/motors that retrofit these same mid-mount frames. Didn't somebody recently 3D print a bracket for one mid-motor frame to accept a different motor? Bafang already sell the frame mount for all their motors; it's not beyond some metal bashing shop to cut-off say a Bosch mount and weld in a Bafang mount onto the same frame... although you'd probably need a decently expensive fame to start with to justify the cost/repaint.

 

[Woosh]

More exciting would be an upstart making brackets/motors that retrofit these same mid-mount frames.

let's say the bike has a dead motor.
how are you going to re-use the battery?

 

[flecc]

let's say the bike has a dead motor.
how are you going to re-use the battery?

Rebuild the battery cells with a replacement BMS, for the new motor.
.

 

[Saracen]

OR go with a hub motor, generic controls and install your own kit and keep a few grand to go places.

What this guy is calling for makes sense but is never going to happen. The industrial lobbying might is too big and the understanding amongst politico's too small.

100%

 

[Woosh]

if you cant fix it you dont own it

well said SW.

 

[Nealh]

well said SW.

One reason why I wouldn't entertain buying such a eapc.

 

[AntonyC]

More exciting would be an upstart making brackets/motors that retrofit these same mid-mount frames. Didn't somebody recently 3D print a bracket for one mid-motor frame to accept a different motor? Bafang already sell the frame mount for all their motors; it's not beyond some metal bashing shop to cut-off say a Bosch mount and weld in a Bafang mount onto the same frame... although you'd probably need a decently expensive fame to start with to justify the cost/repaint.

There's the question of heat treatment (IANAM) and the bracket design might be copy protected to stop bolt-on interfaces being sold. Although how you'd protect a triangle of holes is beyond me, and what's to stop someone making an oversized interface for the buyer to fit with standoffs?

Perhaps the BB positions aren't compatible between motors, but I'd be more than happy to replace a dead mid drive with a rear hub and a BB mount something like this:


Welding jig for motor

 

[rig the jig]

EU are already bringing in right to repair, and all battery devices must have owner replaceable units., so it's coming....

 

[Woosh]

EU are already bringing in right to repair, and all battery devices must have owner replaceable units., so it's coming....

serviceable but not necessarily by the owners though.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

While many frames don't have ideal bottom bracket areas suitable for a mid-drive motor conversion you can improve your chances by choosing a very overbuilt frame and if the worse thing happens and the frame fatigues and fails a secondhand replacement frame for very little money is available. People have destroyed their proprietary e-mountain bike frames through an accident and just the frame could be anywhere up to £2000. I've seen a Calibre Bossnut converted to a mid-drive e-mountain bike and it was performing brilliantly and the whole build was less than £1500 as the Bossnut was bought secondhand.

I personally wouldn't touch a proprietary e-mountain bike with a barge pole unless it was practically given to me.

I guess I would consider a Bafang mid-drive ebike if it was using a fairly standard mounting for that company, i.e. future motors would use the same mounting and they supplied spares to end users and it could use any battery but from what I've read on this forum Bafang are going more toward proprietary probably because perhaps they are pushed towards it by the companies that import Bafang based e-mountain bikes and want to control and profit from after-sales support.

I was in a bike shop looking around and I overheard a customer who told the salesman he doesn't want a bike with anything proprietary as his last bike he couldn't get parts for, it was actually a road bike he was looking at. As far as I can tell he ended up looking at the entry level models only, because he wanted a standard seat post, stem etc but I think he stated a budget around £3000. He left the shop about the same time as me without making a purchase. This was maybe 18 months ago. Proprietary can really lead to a bad experience. Hopefully that cyclist found something in his price range elsewhere perhaps from a smaller brand without all the proprietary parts. There was also a youtube channel of a cyclist who bought a Specialized road bike with a future shock he couldn't get spares for and his youtube channel was taken down after he complained about the poor experience he had. I think 'value' and 'proprietary' are mutually exclusive.

 

[Nealh]

Proprietary means potential short life and dear repairs once past the pitiful 2 year warranty , leading big bike brands simply adding to the throw away society issue.

 

[guerney]

Is depreciation of ebikes with proprietary tech as bad as that of electric cars? Conversions can start inexpensive and remain inexpensive.

 

[saneagle]

Is depreciation of ebikes with proprietary tech as bad as that of electric cars? Conversions can start inexpensive and remain inexpensive.

I think your average MTB type is alright, but those weird Riese and Mullers drop like a stone. I'm not too sure why people buy them. They're one of the most common bikes appearing in our classified, so people spend thousands on them, then sell them not long after at a huge loss. There must be something about either the bikes or the buyers that causes them not to want to keep them.