Problem - assistance cuts-out intermittently

Hello,

 

I have recently joined pedelecs in the hope of getting some advice or help from some of the more knowledgeable members or even some professionals out there.

I am 70 years old and my wife and I havebeeb e-biking for around one year.

 

We have lived in rural France for some time and last year we purchased our first E-bike (the brand is Veloscoot). We purchased the bike direct from the manufacturer, who has sadly gone into the French equivalent of "administration". After a few months the bike developed an intermittent fault insofar as the assistance cuts-out for no obvious reason. It will then restart after say 10 minutes or a few Km pedalled without assistance. The problem now is that because Veloscoot is no longer trading, no spare parts are available, & for this reason none of the bike shops we have spoken to, will even look at the bike. One other relevant point, is that our neighbour bought an identical bike at the same time (her bike does not have the fault), and we have tried exchanging batteries, but the fault remains in our bike.

 

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

Regards,

Williec79

You're not giving us a lot to go on. It'll be a chance in a million if any forum member knows what you have. You could start by providing some photos.

Hi d8veh,

Many thanks for your reply. I did not think photos were relevant, but if you let me know what photos you have in mind, I will gladly provide them.

Regards,

Williec79

Following my initial posting & Dave's reply, attached are some photos & perhaps he can let me know if they are helpful or not. Since the first posting, the owner of a bike shop locally (from whom we bought our second e-bike, (make "Neomouv"), has told us that the problem is almost certainly a faulty controller. For this reason the photos attached are in that area. Photo No 3 shows the label on the controller and No 4 shows the label under the controller housing. I understand that most of the components are Chinese, with assembly in France.

The satirical magazine Viz coined a new phrase a few editions back.

 

"The French have been involved: Usually uttered by car mechanics. When something is terminally Fxxxed, with no obvious method of repair e.g. I'm sorry madam, your car needs to scrapped. It's only a blown headlight bulb, but the French have been involved."

The motor is standard (looks like a SWXU). You reckon that the battery is OK. That only leaves the controller. Your controller is non-standard, although it's function is standard. That means that you can fit a new different controller, but you'll need to do some modifications to the wiring to connect it. Controllers don't cost much, but if you don't have those skills, you're probably in trouble.

 

A photo of what's on the handlebars would also be useful.

 

Are you absolutely sure about the battery because a duff one will give exactly the symptoms you describe?

Many thanks for the helpful comments Dave. As I have PC problem, I cannot attach photos as you requested. However, you can see details on www.veloscoot.com , &the site has an English option. I must add that the problem with assistance has worsened. It is no longer intermittent, as it now cuts-out every two minutes.

Hi williec79,

 

Looking at the web site the only real difference to non standard parts is the touch screen display and the controller which communicates with the display via canbus. If they prove to be faulty then they will have to be replaced together if spares are not available and also probably some of the

cabling.

 

It is very difficult to find intermittent faults but it sounds like you bike works at times so I would assume the basic system is ok.

 

 

Some things you can check yourself before changing components:

 

1.

The bike motor is switched on by a stationary pedal motion sensor clamped to the bottom bracket and is activated by a plastic disc containing several magnets which rotates when turning the pedals it is attached to the bottom bracket shaft and is usually a tight friction fit on the shaft, check to see if it is easy to rotate on the shaft.

The gap between the sensor and the disc has to be close, if the disc has moved too far away from the sensor it will not provide a signal tell the controller the pedals are turning and thus will not switch on the motor.

 

2.

Usually when you have a pedal sensor the bike has, for safety reasons, brake cut out switches fitted. They are part of both the brake lever assemblies and have electrical cables going back to the controller. When the brake lever is pulled the switch closes and sends a signal back to the controller to switch off the motor. If the lever does not return back when you release it then the motor will stay switched off, to ensure the correct operation make sure the brake levers and brake cables are adjusted so that any slack is removed.

If a switch is suspected as faulty try disconnecting the brake switch cables from the controller individually to find the faulty one.

 

3.

Carefully unplug, then visually check the pins and sockets are bright clean and then replug all electrical connectors to ensure they are fully seated together especially the one on the motor supply cable and the battery connectors.

 

4.

Your bike description shows it as having a 6kph throttle, it is independent of the pedal sensor and should still work even if the pedal sensor is faulty.

 

5.

You may also have a speed sensor system similar to the pedal sensor system comprising of a wired sensor going back to the controller and a magnet attached to a spoke on the wheel, this too has to have a small gap, check to see if the magnet has been displaced.

 

edit: added point 5.

Edited August 9, 201510 yr by shemozzle999

Hi Shemozzle999,

Apologies for not responding sooner, but still have no PC. Many thanks for the very detailed information. I have two points to make, the first is to ask if my last post crossed with yours, insofar as my problem has now worsened from "intermittent" to "constant". Even without getting on the bike, after about 1-2 minutes the LCD closes down, resulting in no assistance.

The second point, is to ask if your suggestions are still relevant in my current situation. I also should say that my technical knowledge is verging on zero, so I would not be able to carry out the tests you mentioned.

 

Could I ask at this time, if there's anyone- person or enterprise - who would be willing to look at my bike to see if a fix is possible? Although I live in France, I am travelling to UK in late September for a family gathering, & could put the bike on the carrier, if that is an option.

 

Once again, many thanks to Dave & Shemozzle999 for the constructive comments.

Hi williec79,

 

It could be that the controller has a sleep function if the bike is not used it could be programmed to shut down automatically after a set time of inactivity.

 

There is one test you could try to see if there is any life in the system.

 

If you are unable to carry out the tests yourself do you know of anyone local to you who has some electro/mechanical knowledge that might be able to help you, it would probably help having two pairs of hands anyway.

 

First you need to place a block under the bike stand so that the front wheel is off the ground.

 

You need to carefully disconnect the two connectors on the leads that go to the brake switches they are up by the handlebar. This will temporarily eliminate the brakes as the source of stopping the motor from turning.

 

Now switch the touch screen display on, make a note of how many blocks are displayed on the battery level indication on the touch screen display.

 

Turn on the front/rear lights via the display and check to see if they light up, after checking turn them off again.

 

I can not see any magnets attached to your spokes so assume the speed detection comes from a sensor located inside the motor hub.

 

As explained in my other posting the throttle is connected directly to the controller and should drive the motor independently of the display unit so if you depress the throttle see if the wheel turns and if it does check to see if the speed is displayed.

 

If nothing happens manually turn the wheel in a forward direction and see if the speed rises from zero.

 

That is enough to check for now.

Digging a bit deeper it appears from your photographs that from the markings on the controller that it may have been manufactured in France by this Company:

 

http://www.mfdc.fr/en/content/10-catalogues

 

You could contact them and ask if they supplied Veloscoot with them and whether they could provide you with a replacement if it proves to be the cause of your problem.

Hi Shemozzle999,

Many thanks for your two most récent postings & I will follow both up. I need tobe away for à few days, but will respond on Monday.

Hi Shemozzle999,

Sorry for not replying on Monday, got delayed. Your detective work on "MFDC" was helpful. I have since discovered that they are a French manufacturer of bikes & their e-bike range includes the "EXS" models. Also your information has led to the discovery that they did the assembly of the last batch of Veloscoot bikes, including my own. I have e-mailed them to ask if they happened to have a spare controller, but no reply as yet. On their website, it also says that they were taken over by Intersport in 2014.

On the aspect of the controller being "dead", on the suggestion on my neighbour (who also has a Veloscoot), I re-initialised the battery, & this has put some life back into the controller, insofar as the bike is operational - albeit only for short distances before the assistance cuts-out as before.

 

If I get no-where on the French side, do you know of anyone or any bike repair place who could change the controller, as Dave mentioned earlier.

 

Many thanks again.

Williec79

Hi williec79,

 

I hope you get a response from them as it would be the best answer for you.

 

In the meantime can you tell me if you tried your battery on your friends bike and did it work ok?

Hi Shemozzle999,

Still no response from "MFDC" - will try again. They have a few sites, although most are for "trade" only, which is quite normal in France. The one site I found which I could access, was for "after sales" and it came up in English - so I posted my e-mail in English. Perhaps I may have more success if I post it in French, although I'm not sure if "after sales" is the most appropriate site.

 

As regards your second point, as to whether I tried my battery on my friends Veloscoot - the honest answer is "no". However, I did try my friend's battery on my own Veloscoot, and the problem remained. If you think I should still try my battery on my friend's bike, I will certainly do so.

Hi williec79,

 

It would confirm that your battery is ok, it will be needed even if you change out your electrics. Your friend could take it for a longish run to prove it out and also take his own battery as a spare just in case yours has a problem.

 

When I am fault finding blind I start at the source i.e. the battery and work through systematically to the load i.e. the motor. Checking each component is ok in a logical order before moving on to the next.

 

The symptoms you described could be attributed to a dry joint on the battery supply cable to the controller somewhere between the battery holder and the controller pcb. This could cause a drop in battery voltage under load, which in turn would cause the low voltage cut out in the controller to trip and shut the system down requiring the battery to be switched off then back on to clear the fault.

Where in rural France would you be?

Hi Shemozzle999,

As it happens, my friend with the same Véloscoot is going on a 5 day cycling holiday next week, and has agreed to take & use my battery as you suggested. Will keep you posted on their return.

 

From your earlier posting, what does "pcb" mean - sorry for my ignorance.

I have sent another email to MFC (sometimes called MFCD) &will let you know any result. Again, however, the only point of contact for non-resellers is the "after sales" department.

 

Hi anotherkiwi,

We live in Département 79 (Deux-Sèvres) in a hamlet some 20k east of the town of Niort.

Hi Shemozzle999,

 

From your earlier posting, what does "pcb" mean - sorry for my ignorance.

 

pcb= printed circuit board

 

There will be one inside your controller box and the battery wires will be soldered onto it.

 

The problem sometimes is that the holes in a poorly designed pcb are too large for the wires and the joints are made with lots of solder to fill the gap which could cause a dry resistive joint which can heat up when passing high currents. This thermal cycling eventually leads to the break down of the joint.

 

It particularly occurs on control pcbs switching mains voltage on washing machines and dish washers. I have repaired many machines for relatives by simply reheating the joints on the mains wiring with a soldering iron, this after the pcb has been classed as non serviceable by the manufacturers service agent.

Edited August 27, 201510 yr by shemozzle999

Hi Shemozzle999 & dhveh,

Just to update you on the findings on my friends who have the same Véloscoot E-bike as mine, & who took my battery with them when going on a 5 day biking trip.

My battery was used for most of the trip with the average daily journey being 45-50k. I am told the assistance did NOT cut-out once during their trip, but the battery did, however, fail to start on a few occasions and it also failed to respond to the "disconnect" switch on the LCD, and the battery had to be physically removed from its housing to effect the disconnect.

 

Despite having send a second email to MFC (sometimes called MFCD), I have not received any reply.

 

I look forward to hearing from you as regards any further suggestions.

The problem is that it uses CAN-bus communications between various parts. Bionx is the same. There's very little you can do to self-diagnose. Only an authorised dealer would have the equipment to read the errors. As a pure guess, maybe you've got/had water in your display.

Hi williec79,

 

As d8veh has said your bike has a USB port on the control panel which can be used to access your bikes software for diagnostics but you need the diagnostic software program to access it.

 

You will have to do some further digging for information if you want to fix the existing bike.

 

The company website is still up and shows the dealer network contact details and it might be worth trying to telephone the old dealers to see if they have the program:

 

http://www.veloscoot.com/revendeurs-velos-electriques

 

The site also shows a telephone contact number for reporting stolen bikes it might be worth seeing if that is still live:

 

+33 5 49 49 10 00

 

You have probably already found the assembly video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAspHUJJ2V0

 

It shows the names of the MFC employees involved with the production of your bike it might be worth trying to find out their email addresses and email your problems directly to them regarding spares and maybe diagnostic software.

 

There is also some videos with Veloscoot employees - also names shown on screen :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFz0TaS3aMU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUA69dxhvSU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PHqbykYcYg

 

I could not find a user manual for your bike but have found one that has the control panel you have - it says on page 20 that it should show a fault code number on the bottom of the display next to a yellow warning triangle, have you noticed one after it fails?

 

http://rosaire-a.org/que_choisir/Notice-Plios-Urban-SAD2-3032651834366-AB.pdf

Edited September 9, 201510 yr by shemozzle999

Hello d8veh & shemozzle999,

 

I bet you thought what an ungrateful twit for not replying to the last two postings. I have been in UK for the last 2 weeks or so on family matters, & although I checked emails, there were no notifications of new postings (no idea why), but regrettably I did not think to check the pedelecs web site.

 

As I only got back home very recently, I have not yet the time to check out all the points made in the last two postings. However, the web site for "revendeurs" is not available (error 404) & the all telephone contact lines are dead.

 

What I have decided to do, is making a visit to MFC in Machecoul tomorrow (some150k) with the bike on the carrier. They have not responded to the two emails, but it's worth a try.

 

Once again many thanks for your continued assistance & I will keep you posted on the outcome of tomorrow's visit.

Edited October 1, 201510 yr by HelenJ

Hello d8veh & shemozzle999,

 

This is a follow-up to my posting of last Wednesday when I said that I had planned to visit MFC the following day, Thursday 1st October.

 

On one aspect, the visit went well, insofar as my wife and I were made welcome, and the Directeur Géneral (no less) & a Commercial Assistant came to talk to us. After listening to our tale of woe, the DG said that the current state of "administration" of Véloscoot had caused huge difficulties for his company, (presumably including unpaid invoices for the assembly work). He would not elaborate except to say that around 1500 bicycles were affected. He also said that MFC did not possess any of the rights to any of the parts of the Véloscoot bikes - these rights remained with Véloscoot and MFC had been purely contracted to assemble the bikes. Therefore MFC itself could offer no direct assistance to us.

 

He asked how we knew of MFC's involvement, & we produced copies of the bike label showing the MFC name & the Machecoul address, as well as a copy of the label attached to the controller, which gave its reference numbers. We mentioned that someone had told us that the controller had been manufactured in China, and the Commercial Assistant went off to check the Controller reference numbers. She returned & said that some Controllers had indeed been made in China, but ours had been made by a French company situated in the south of France. She gave us detailed contact names & email addresses at that company & suggested that we contact it with all the details. The DG said that he did not know the situation as regards the ownership rights of the Controller, but it would be worth following up.

 

The DG finally said that the French court is now expected to report on the future legal status of Véloscoot sometime this month (October 2015).

 

Incidentally the MFC set-up is very impressive (it claims to be the largest bike manufacturer in France), and has a factory, a large administration/R &D building, with a showroom on the second floor, and a factory shop outlet all on the same site.

 

I have e-mailed the French company & will let you know the outcome.

Hi williec79,

 

Glad you followed up with the visit to MFC albeit without any tangible result.

 

Good luck with the controller manufacturer although as it was marked up as a MFC product I would have thought that any part warranty/responsibility would remain on their doorstep although I am not sure about the French consumers rights - perhaps you could find out about them.

 

If it were me I would make copies of the videos showing their involvement in the product just in case they get taken down.

 

Look forward to the outcome of your email.