Pro Connect Upgrade

[tillson]

I've decided to throw a bit of money at my ageing Pro Connect. Not too much mind, because I am a skinflint.

I would like to upgrade the front brake to a hydraulic disk brake. At the moment, the bike is equipped with a cable V brake. I'm assuming that this upgrade will necessitate the purchase of a set of new forks to carry the calliper, so whilst I'm at it, I would like to fit suspension forks. Also, the purchase of a new disc compatible front wheel, a brake calliper and brake lever.

Has any owner of an older Pro Connect ever done this? If so, I would be interested to hear which components you used.

Or, if anyone could advise me which forks options are compatible with my bike, and a recommendation for brakes / wheels, that would be appreciated too.

I use the bike a lot, so I don't mind splashing a bit of cash on it to improve the ride.

I have contacted 50C to see what they have to say and I am awaiting a response.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Fairly limited choice because of the 700c wheels.
SUNTOUR NCX 700C / 28" SUSPENSION FORKS, PRELOAD, LOCKOUT, DISC BRAKE, RRP £90 | eBay

 

[tillson]

Fairly limited choice because of the 700c wheels.
SUNTOUR NCX 700C / 28" SUSPENSION FORKS, PRELOAD, LOCKOUT, DISC BRAKE, RRP £90 | eBay

I thought that might be the case. Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

 

[Hugh]

I put Suntour forks on my old PCS in place of the (too hard) original suspension forks. The Suntour one worked very nicely, though I'd say it's really for road use and not off-road hammering.

You'll need to make sure you get the right headset to fit whatever new fork you do get. Head tube diameters vary

Good luck.

 

[JamesC]

It's a while since we spoke, but I changed the forks twice on a similar vintage of ProConnect to yours.

First change was from the original solid forks to the "firm" suspension forks of the first ProConnect S bikes. Although a little more relaxed than the solid forks, these were still very firm and very difficult to find alternative, softer springs.

Second time round, I went for the excellent (but expensive) SR Suntour NCX-E RL Lite forks. Note the terminology NCX-E because it is the letter E that says the suspension is AIR cushioned rather than NCX-D where the cushioning is the lower cost COIL SPRING cushioning.

RL = Remote Lockout, meaning that there is a lockout lever that fits on the handlebars to lock the suspension solid when pounding up & down on the pedals. Personally I find that an ebike removes the need to pound up & down on the pedals (which can cause suspension forks to bounce in sympathy), so I do not use the LockOut function.

Air cushioning is a pleasure, giving plenty of adjustment from soft to hard. Downside is that a high pressure pump is required to vary the pressure, and I find that I check the pressure every 3 months or so. As much to do with the changing temperature of the seasons as any slight leakage.

The Suntour web site details all their forks and includes the choice of "Model Year" for each fork. I am using 2010/11 forks (ref SF10 or SF11) which are available in Black or Silver. They are usually sold with both disc & rim brake positions. The 2013 version are now available, but tend to be for Disc Only.

I have only found them in Germany !

SF10 example

SF13 example

Very important to check stock with supplier as they are always on long delivery from the far east.


The AHead steerer tube/headset on your ProConnect is 11/8" diameter

I can't remember which frame size of ProConnect you have. Mine is the small 49 frame where the length of the steerer tube was cut to 215mm at manufacture.

Most new forks seem to be 255mm (or sometimes 300mm). I retained all of the 255mm steerer tube and added an extra 40mm of spacers to raise the handlebars to give me an upright riding position.
Black alloy spacers from SJS in 3mm, 6mm, 12mm heights.


The original headset (bearings) used are VP A41AC, to Cane Creek dimenisons, made in the Far East and not readily available to this code number in the UK (except probably at 50Cycles).
I have purchased successfully on 2 occasions from HongKong, but 2-3 weeks delivery.
VP A41AC Bearings


Personally I have stayed with rim brakes (Magura Hydraulic), so I can't advise on hubs and discs.

Last thing before I forget - there is a plastic lamp bracket available for the Suntour fork.


A few specialist tools are quite important for pressing home the elements of the headset. You may well be able to arrange a quick loan from your LBS.

Hope this helps.

James

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Tilson shouldn't need to replace his headset unless his present set is knackered. If it is, any 1 1/8" set will do.

 

[JamesC]

Tilson shouldn't need to replace his headset unless his present set is knackered. If it is, any 1 1/8" set will do.

Very true, but it is sometimes difficult to get the crown race off the old forks without damage. The crown race seems to be specific to the headset bearings (and included with the new headset), and I could not see how to buy it with confidence as an individual item.

James

 

[Deleted member 4366]

They're hardened steel, so difficult to damage. They normally just lever off using the lever slots front and bsck. A bit of penatrating oil sometimes helps. The danger is putting it on the new steerer. I use a longer bolt in the star nut to pull it on, otherwise you need a slide-hammer of some sort.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[amigafan2003]

Crown race remover

You don't have to get replacement crown races exact - most 45deg anyway unless you have something very exotic - something like this will do.

As for setting the race onto the forks - go to B&Q and get a bit of thick plastic drain pipe for a couple of quid.

 

[Scimitar]

Very true, but it is sometimes difficult to get the crown race off the old forks without damage. The crown race seems to be specific to the headset bearings (and included with the new headset), and I could not see how to buy it with confidence as an individual item.

James

Always worthwhile replacing headstock bearings when it's apart, as they're so cheap that you'd be kicking yourself having to take it apart again when the re-used set gets worn out. They do get notched, sometimes just from a good pothole, once.

 

[tillson]

It's a while since we spoke, but I changed the forks twice on a similar vintage of ProConnect to yours.

First change was from the original solid forks to the "firm" suspension forks of the first ProConnect S bikes. Although a little more relaxed than the solid forks, these were still very firm and very difficult to find alternative, softer springs.

Second time round, I went for the excellent (but expensive) SR Suntour NCX-E RL Lite forks. Note the terminology NCX-E because it is the letter E that says the suspension is AIR cushioned rather than NCX-D where the cushioning is the lower cost COIL SPRING cushioning.

RL = Remote Lockout, meaning that there is a lockout lever that fits on the handlebars to lock the suspension solid when pounding up & down on the pedals. Personally I find that an ebike removes the need to pound up & down on the pedals (which can cause suspension forks to bounce in sympathy), so I do not use the LockOut function.

Air cushioning is a pleasure, giving plenty of adjustment from soft to hard. Downside is that a high pressure pump is required to vary the pressure, and I find that I check the pressure every 3 months or so. As much to do with the changing temperature of the seasons as any slight leakage.

The Suntour web site details all their forks and includes the choice of "Model Year" for each fork. I am using 2010/11 forks (ref SF10 or SF11) which are available in Black or Silver. They are usually sold with both disc & rim brake positions. The 2013 version are now available, but tend to be for Disc Only.

I have only found them in Germany !

SF10 example

SF13 example

Very important to check stock with supplier as they are always on long delivery from the far east.


The AHead steerer tube/headset on your ProConnect is 11/8" diameter

I can't remember which frame size of ProConnect you have. Mine is the small 49 frame where the length of the steerer tube was cut to 215mm at manufacture.

Most new forks seem to be 255mm (or sometimes 300mm). I retained all of the 255mm steerer tube and added an extra 40mm of spacers to raise the handlebars to give me an upright riding position.
Black alloy spacers from SJS in 3mm, 6mm, 12mm heights.


The original headset (bearings) used are VP A41AC, to Cane Creek dimenisons, made in the Far East and not readily available to this code number in the UK (except probably at 50Cycles).
I have purchased successfully on 2 occasions from HongKong, but 2-3 weeks delivery.
VP A41AC Bearings


Personally I have stayed with rim brakes (Magura Hydraulic), so I can't advise on hubs and discs.

Last thing before I forget - there is a plastic lamp bracket available for the Suntour fork.


A few specialist tools are quite important for pressing home the elements of the headset. You may well be able to arrange a quick loan from your LBS.

Hope this helps.

James

Hi James

It's nice to hear from you again and I hope that you are well.

You raise some interesting points, firstly that you found forks which utilise coil springs too firm. This is something which had crossed my mind and I was wondering if the roads aren't uneven enough to actually work the suspension. Riding on roads tends to cause higher frequency, lower amplitude displacements on the handle bars than riding off road, so maybe coil sprung forks don't absorb the energy under these conditions as well as an air sprung system.

Do you have any experience of Schwalbe Big Apple tyres? I am wondering if these would provide sufficient, "air suspension" for road use. I rarely, if ever, take my bike of road so maybe air forks are an overkill for the circumstances under which I ride. Whatever I decide, and from what you have said I think that cheaper coil sprung forks would be a waste of money. So I need to decide between air forks or Big Apple tyres.

Your comment about raising the bar height was interesting too. In recent times, my wrists seem to be suffering so raising the bar height a bit could take some weight off my them.

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply. You have given me plenty of information and prompted me to re-think the situation.

All the best.

Tom

 

[JamesC]

Tom

I do not have experience of Big Apple tyres, having always opted for maximum puncture protection from the Marathon Plus series. However I do use the relatively fat (700C x 40) version of the Marathon Plus ATB which is possibly no longer made. This is quite effective for roads & tracks, but would not suit pure road use.

One thing that I do recall is that the standard solid forks on the ProConnect did not leave a lot of room for seriously fat tyres, particularly if you use full mudguards as I do. I can't remember the limit, but maybe something to check. The wheel rims are Mavic A319 (for rim brakes) which allow tyres up to 50mm.

The bike is aimed very much towards leisure in largely rural areas, typically up to 40 miles. Most often I am cycling where I want to enjoy the countryside and views, which I can do more easily when sitting fairly upright. For this, I have raised the bars and swept them back, making the bike more akin to the Kalkhoff Agattu than the ProConnect.

James

 

[Jonah]

I have Big Apple 2.15 (on my 20" wheels) and they're great. You can get not so big Big Apple Plus (added protection) now in 28" / 2.00. See Schwalbe Big Apple Plus at Schwalbe Big Apple Plus at a low price in the online bike shop www.rosebikes.com

 

[tillson]

Thanks for the link to the Big Apple tyres Jonah, that seems to be a good price.

James

I can see from your photograph what you mean regarding making your bike more akin to the Agattu. The extra bit of height, swept bars and air sprung front wheel must make for a relaxed ride.

I'm leaning more towards those Suntour air forks which you linked too.

I fitted Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes a few years ago, but have been slightly disappointed by the wear adjustment mechanism. I find that when I turn the red adjuster wheel on the lever, only one piston and brake pad moves closer to the rim. The other piston remains fully retracted, the gap between pad and rim getting progressively larger as the pad wears. This eventually causes excessive movement on the lever before the brakes begin to bite. I have contacted Magura about this, but they seemed resigned to the fact that this sometimes happens and that there is nothing which can be done. I rode a bike with disk brakes a couple of weeks ago and found the brakes much more predictable and effective, so I am close to deciding to fit a disk brake on the front wheel.

Just as an aside, how is your bike battery performing? I seem to remember that you had two of the Panasonic 10 Ah. I'm still using my original Panasonic battery and it is still performing well.

 

[Jonah]

I have the Magura HS11 Pure QR hydraulic rim brakes on my Kalkhoff Sahel Compact that now seems to be the standard fit on most of the Kalkhoffs. I find these excellent. They are supposed to be auto adjusting , although they can also be adjusted at the brake lever. I don't know how these compare with the HS33.

 

[JamesC]

Thanks for the link to the Big Apple tyres Jonah, that seems to be a good price.

James

I can see from your photograph what you mean regarding making your bike more akin to the Agattu. The extra bit of height, swept bars and air sprung front wheel must make for a relaxed ride.

I'm leaning more towards those Suntour air forks which you linked too.

I fitted Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes a few years ago, but have been slightly disappointed by the wear adjustment mechanism. I find that when I turn the red adjuster wheel on the lever, only one piston and brake pad moves closer to the rim. The other piston remains fully retracted, the gap between pad and rim getting progressively larger as the pad wears. This eventually causes excessive movement on the lever before the brakes begin to bite. I have contacted Magura about this, but they seemed resigned to the fact that this sometimes happens and that there is nothing which can be done. I rode a bike with disk brakes a couple of weeks ago and found the brakes much more predictable and effective, so I am close to deciding to fit a disk brake on the front wheel.

Just as an aside, how is your bike battery performing? I seem to remember that you had two of the Panasonic 10 Ah. I'm still using my original Panasonic battery and it is still performing well.

Tom

I am quite surprised that the HS33 brakes have not lived up to expectations. Like Jonah, I have used the lower spec Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brakes since fitting them to the ezee Torq in 2007, and always been very pleased with performance.

Magura's engineering always looks well to me, and they seem to take a keen interest in the e-bike market.

I was wondering if you would be looking at their disc brakes such as the MT4. I will be interested in your research for the right disc brake system to use with the Suntour forks / 700C wheels. I see that the forks can handle a maximum size of 185 mm discs, and mine have the IS2000 mounting holes for the caliper. Deciding on the best setup from the array available will be interesting.


Regarding the 26v/10 Ah Panasonic batteries, you are right that I started out by purchasing 2 batteries with the ProConnect in June 2008, so those are now 5 years old. They still provide a very similar level of assistance as they did at the outset, but the capacity/distance has dropped off.

I have always used full assistance from start to finish of a ride, and in the initial years would expect to see the low battery light flashing at about 20 miles with a further 3 to 4 miles of reduced assistance available to complete exhaustion. (The 20 miles might have been 21 in Summer and 19 in Winter). Today the distance is down to 12/13 miles from 20, but I have not run them to exhaustion recently because they tend to get used for local jobs on the Agattu.

It is interesting to note that you have done considerably more miles in total than I have, and on just one battery. One difference being that I think that you use your bike daily where my usage has been more intermittent, and I always recharge the battery to full in anticipation of needing the full capacity on the next ride.

In 2011, I purchased 2x Panasonic 12Ah batteries which I use today.

To be honest, I am a little confused as to the best purchase these days for the 26v Panasonic market, still being happy with 2 smaller batteries than 1 large one. The 12Ah size suits me well, so I still tend towards the original manufacture.

I have not really been checking how the Japanese Panasonic batteries have fared against the BMZ German as they become older.

What is your view ?

James

 

[catsnapper]

There are plenty of 700c sus forks available from the usually reliable Rosebikes: Trekking forks at a low price in the online bike shop www.rosebikes.com

The RST models usually have a removable steerer tube so you can fit the correct dia. and length to suit.

Alan

 

[tillson]

Tom

I am quite surprised that the HS33 brakes have not lived up to expectations. Like Jonah, I have used the lower spec Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brakes since fitting them to the ezee Torq in 2007, and always been very pleased with performance.

Magura's engineering always looks well to me, and they seem to take a keen interest in the e-bike market.

I was wondering if you would be looking at their disc brakes such as the MT4. I will be interested in your research for the right disc brake system to use with the Suntour forks / 700C wheels. I see that the forks can handle a maximum size of 185 mm discs, and mine have the IS2000 mounting holes for the caliper. Deciding on the best setup from the array available will be interesting.


Regarding the 26v/10 Ah Panasonic batteries, you are right that I started out by purchasing 2 batteries with the ProConnect in June 2008, so those are now 5 years old. They still provide a very similar level of assistance as they did at the outset, but the capacity/distance has dropped off.

I have always used full assistance from start to finish of a ride, and in the initial years would expect to see the low battery light flashing at about 20 miles with a further 3 to 4 miles of reduced assistance available to complete exhaustion. (The 20 miles might have been 21 in Summer and 19 in Winter). Today the distance is down to 12/13 miles from 20, but I have not run them to exhaustion recently because they tend to get used for local jobs on the Agattu.

It is interesting to note that you have done considerably more miles in total than I have, and on just one battery. One difference being that I think that you use your bike daily where my usage has been more intermittent, and I always recharge the battery to full in anticipation of needing the full capacity on the next ride.

In 2011, I purchased 2x Panasonic 12Ah batteries which I use today.

To be honest, I am a little confused as to the best purchase these days for the 26v Panasonic market, still being happy with 2 smaller batteries than 1 large one. The 12Ah size suits me well, so I still tend towards the original manufacture.

I have not really been checking how the Japanese Panasonic batteries have fared against the BMZ German as they become older.

What is your view ?

James

To be honest James, I hadn't considered Magura disc brakes (didn't realise they made them) only looking briefly at Shimano and Hope. I am tempted by Hope because I believe that they are manufactured in the UK and they seem to be well regarded. Having said that, Magura customer service has been very good, even though what they told me wasn't what I wanted to hear, but at least they will engage in a discussion and seem to be straightforward with their explanations.

Until I read your post, I didn't realise that only certain combinations of calliper, fork, disk and wheel (apart from size) work together. I need to find the time to study this in more detail.

My battery seems to be lasting remarkably well (now 5 years old). About 95% of my cycling is on the lowest power setting, so I assume that means I am drawing less current from the battery than a user who selects medium or high power more frequently. Perhaps this lower current demand has helped prolong the battery life. Also, for sometime now I have been using the battery somewhere between 30 and 70 percent charge state. I can do this because my 10 mile each way commute is a constant and I have two chargers and two time clocks. I simply charge for a set period of time at each end of the commute to keep the charge state within the 30 to 70 percent band. I don't know if this helps, but it's a no hassle task.

I know very little about the array of 26 V batteries now available for these bikes. There seems to be very little in the way of feedback from the alternative German battery users and these batteries have only been available for a relatively short period of time, so I suppose it's a bit early to tell how they perform in the long term. If I were a leisure cyclist, I'd probably look more closely at them, but if I needed a replacement today, I'd be tempted to buy a genuine Panasonic again and that would be based entirely on my good experience with my present battery. I would also buy it from one of the German Ebay traders.

On the whole, my Pro Connect is very robust machine and I don't think there is anything out there worth buying to replace it with. I particularly like the early phase down of the power delivery. I know that doesn't suit everyone, but I like it and I don't think the newer machines do it, which is another reason to hang on to the present bike.

 

[JamesC]

Tom

It has often been said that avoiding the two extremes of the battery capacity (charging to 100% & emptying to 0%) maintains a very healthy battery. With the original 250watt Panasonic motors that we use, I can't imagine that there is ever a very heavy draw on the battery, so I would guess that staying between 30% & 70% has helped greatly.

My usage does not really have a regular pattern, so I have tended to fill the battery full today in case I want to go a distance tomorrow. There is a small benefit in carrying a second battery because it is often easy to judge half distance, and swap batteries to avoid running them to empty.

Like you, the bike does everything that I need, and I have no intentions of changing it for a while yet. I also agree that the 26v Panasonic batteries have behaved very well. The only disappointment for me has been that Panasonic have never shown a Date of Manufacture on the batteries. Even though the batteries "sleep" when not in use, I like to feel that a new purchase has been made recently.

It is good to know that, at this point in time, there are two sources other than Panasonic producing batteries for the 26v systems. The BMZ batteries seem to be fairly well established now, and must be reaching 2-3 years old.

More recently the Vision batteries (18 Ah, 21 Ah, 25 Ah) have been receiving good press, and are becoming more widely available from the independent bike shops in Germany. The report by Gervais on the German Pedelecs Forum is well worth a read.

They have the advantage of an additional charging socket on the side of the battery, allowing it to be charged in the bike if power is available where the bike is parked.

Our vintage of Panasonic charger do work with these batteries, but at these higher capacities the faster 6A chargers supplied by Vision would make much more sense (our chargers are 1.8 A).

Panasonic still seem to be the only producer of batteries in the smaller capacities (8 Ah, 10 Ah, 12 Ah), and these certainly have appeal for shorter journeys / low power assistance.

Overall, the 26v Panasonic system seems to have been sold in sufficient volume to maintain a healthy market in batteries & spare parts for the next little while.

James