Pro’s and cons of buying Cytronex

[ChrisBike]

Thanks for that reply Chris, when are you hoping to get the bike. I have read that people have had their deliver dates continually put back. The problem apparently is not the lack of bikes but the lack of motors.

£3700 for a bike that weighs less than 12 kg is really good value. The results of the head to head time trial should make interesting reading, I look forward to seeing how the bikes compare to one another.

The delivery date is still showing as the beginning of September, so here hoping! Delivery is via Epic Cycles of Ludlow, who have been very helpful. I'll let you know when it comes.

 

[ChrisBike]

it's horses for courses. You can hide a 24-cell pack in a small saddle bag, you can't do that with 50-cells, weighing 3kgs. There are possibilities with current tech, I just don't know how big the demand for sub-4kg all in solutions is. The cost of such a system (without rims) is around £400.

I think this exchange demonstrates what the issues really are.
There will always be those interested in self build conversions and, as the designer and occupant of an off-grid home for 38 years, I have a lot of time for them.
But many cyclists want a solution that is completely hidden. I think that it is the aesthetics rather than the weight that is the major driving factor. The bottle battery was as close as we could get for 10 years, but the e-bike solutions from mainstream road bike manufacturers have now stolen this market with bikes that really do look like a normal bike and don't weigh much more. I can't see the bottle battery bike returning, and certainly not at a grand a pop!

 

[RobF]

A light assist, small battery, front hub kit for £1,000 looks very expensive to me.

I believe there are some supply problems with the Orbea roadie ebike, but it looks much better value for money than the Cytronex kit.

https://www.cytronex.com/shop/c1-kit-uk-black-disc-brake-700c-32h-wheel?___SID=U/&___SID=U

 

[anotherkiwi]

A light assist, small battery, front hub kit for £1,000 looks very expensive to me.

I believe there are some supply problems with the Orbea roadie ebike, but it looks much better value for money than the Cytronex kit.

https://www.cytronex.com/shop/c1-kit-uk-black-disc-brake-700c-32h-wheel?___SID=U/&___SID=U

Gain holdups - the motor manufacturer can't keep up with demand.

20 x 20700 cells will make a 36v 8 Ah battery capable of supplying 15 Amps (according to specs) and which would fit in a very small space.

The Gain also has the sensor on the end of the cassette hub body which makes for very discrete integration. Controller in the battery. One button assistance level change. Kits can't give such discrete integration, unfortunately.

I would jump at a rear YTW-06 with a cassette instead of a freewheel.

 

[ChrisBike]

Gain holdups - the motor manufacturer can't keep up with demand.

20 x 20700 cells will make a 36v 8 Ah battery capable of supplying 15 Amps (according to specs) and which would fit in a very small space.

The Gain also has the sensor on the end of the cassette hub body which makes for very discrete integration. Controller in the battery. One button assistance level change. Kits can't give such discrete integration, unfortunately.

I would jump at a rear YTW-06 with a cassette instead of a freewheel.

 

[ChrisBike]

My Gain M20 is still showing delivery in the first week in September on the Orbea site. I ordered it 3 weeks ago and chose the most available colour. Other colours/sizes/specs are late November or even 2019. I'm hoping that date turns out to be correct, but we will see.
Many of the delivery issues I've seen seem to be for the Al frame version. I suspect Orbea may have switched production to the new model, but I hope they sort it out because the Al version is obviously a great value bike.

 

[ChrisBike]

PS. The Gain battery is 250Whr, so 6.9 Ahr.

 

[Woosh]

I would jump at a rear YTW-06 with a cassette instead of a freewheel.

Bafang G370 may be of interest, maximum torque 42NM, 2kg, cassette:

 

[chris_n]

Bafang G370 may be of interest, maximum torque 42NM, 2kg, cassette:

Too wide for me. My carbon road bike is130mm dropouts that is 145mm.

 

[ChrisBike]

......

I really like the looks of the Orbea gain bikes you mentioned, but you don't have the option with them to drop out the battery and motor so that would probably put me off buying one.

Having said that £1500 seems like a very good price, do you know what kind of weight that particular model is though. I would imagine its a lot heavier than 11 or 12kg which would be the kind of weight I would be looking for.

I've just noticed that shops are advertising the Orbea Gain F40 19, 2019 model for £1699 available now. It's the Al framed version, flat bar and not great spec with Shimano Altus. But it does have the battery and wiring completely hidden and exactly the same drive mechanism and App compatibility as the expensive Carbon versions. I'd guess the weight will be 14/15 kg. At £700 more than the Cytronex kit, it looks like very good value to me!

 

[flecc]

I've just noticed that shops are advertising the Orbea Gain F40 19, 2019 model for £1699 available now.

Now £1549 from this company and they are also giving a £5 off voucher currently.

Very good value looking even better now.
.

 

[TobyAnscombe]

If I was still looking then that would be pretty much at the top of my list. Wondering if I can justify *another* bike...

 

[781992]

Chris – this is disappointing from you - I thought you would at the very least be honest about your grievance with Cytronex which is over the fact that I declined to send you a part free of charge for your ten year old original Cytronex bike yesterday. I’m truly sorry we’ve fallen out over this, but I have personally provided you with an extra-ordinary amount of support previously, including helping you remotely to put right your incorrect installation of Cytronex C1 onto your own bike a year ago (I’ve counted 11 emails - many hours of my time, plus long phone calls, etc.), and your comments then – until yesterday when you threatened us with bad publicity – were appreciative.
.

Mark, just to try to put some balance into this exchange, I would like to mention that I helped fit a C-1 to a friend's Trek hybrid last summer and it took about 30 minutes. I thought the sensor attachment looked a bit flaky, but he has ridden many miles with no problems. We are considering fitting a C-1 to our very lightweight tandem, weight being important, and the fact that the C-1 will only add 3.6 kg to our already 11.1 kg is significant. The Circe Helios STEPS we have weighs 24.5 kg! Your responses to my questions about the C-1 have been very quick and comprehensive. Thank you.

 

[781992]

We bought the first two of the original Cytronex bikes in 2008 and got on quite well with them. I posted on here very positively about these bikes (under a different name, chris_bike, that lapsed when I changed my email). The range was not what it might have been, but that is a consequence of the batteries being relatively small.
We also have one bike in the new setup. It was built on a Carbon Planet X frame so not much over 12 kg all in. It works ok, but the set-up is quite flakey. The hall sensor that detects movement in the cassette is easily knocked out of alignment, which cuts all power. The battery is still only 5Ahr, which is really too small for any ebike. And the set up is quite expensive.
In truth, I think Cytronex missed their market with this bike. It should have been launched 3-4 years ago (when it was "in development"). There are now bikes on the market with bigger batteries hidden in the down tube and considerably greater range (Orbea Gain, Focus, Willier, Bianchi and even Pinarello). The cheapest, especially if you search for a 2018 model, are cheaper than a Cytronex conversion and have a better range.
I think the day of the bottle battery conversion is now past. I've recently found their after sales service wanting too.

We have two C1s, one on our lightweight Comotion Macchiato (weighs 11.8kg without pedals) tandem in Florida and the other on a nondescript road bike in the UK. Initially, last year, I put a EU version (max15.5 mph) on the tandem on the advice of Cytronex for higher torque, but soon found that at our combined ages of 159, we could not stay with our cycling group which frequently exceeds 17 mph, so I bought the US version (max 20 mph) and put the EU version on the UK bike. Now we can stay with the gang at, when required, the lowest power setting . We have ridden over 2000 miles since last May and only once, in fact last week, has the speed sensor come out of alignment and that was my fault through parking the tandem against some bushes.
I have not yet had a chance to really test the solo bike in the UK, but will do so this summer.
I have found the pre- and post-sales support from Cytronex to be exceptional; they respond almost before I have finished writing (slight exaggeration!). Delivery to the USA was three days from date of order on both occasions!! Fitting the kit was a 30-minute job.
Yes, there are etandems out there, but to have one like ours, which already cost new $12,000, fitted with, say, Shimano STEPs, would cost upwards of $15,000. The Hawthorne is priced over $20,000! So paying about $1200 for a C1 conversion seems to me to be very cost-effective.
As for performance, we easily get 25 miles when using the lowest (50W) power setting almost constantly over flat Florida roads at an average of 15.5 mph, which we did yesterday and had 25% of charge left.
For comparison, we also have in the UK a Circe Helios STEPS Separable tandem with a 418Wh Shimano battery (C1 is 180Wh). This bike weighs over 25 kg vs the Comotion's approx 17 kg with C1 and pedals. Although I have not compared them directly, I think that the ranges are very similar, which points to the weight difference and better efficiency of the C1.
We are seriously considering buying a third C1 for a Trek tandem we keep in the UK as we are so happy with the ones we have, plus the outstanding Cytronex support.