Prices of the electricity we use to charge

Peter.Bridge

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You have to understand that there's virtually no money to be made by going against the climate change narrative. It's often career suicide. On the other hand, if you promote the agenda, your work gets promoted. It's the same with the doctors, who speak against the vaccine. Some of them even had their licences revoked for it. You have to ask yourself why these guys would want to commit career suicide? What are they going to achieve from it?
It has been extremely profitable lobbying against climate change and delaying action. see Naomi Oreskes "Merchants of Doubt". Unfortunately it's human nature - those that got fooled/brainwashed are unable to admit it to themselves irrespective of the evidence. "Science progresses one funeral at time"
Again anti-vaxxers have a long history - it plays to our fears

Another interesting point is why these guys are never invited onto the BBC to have a fair debate about these matters so that people can make up their own minds.
Not any more - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmsctech/254/254.pdf
They were very guilty of "false balance", inviting a contrarian guest onto every program to give their view, irrespective of the weight of scientific opinion and then unable to challenge it.

False balance Submissions to our inquiry commented on a tendency for the media to approach climate science as an argument about two equally valid points of view, rather than discussion about scientific facts, and on the false balance of views being presented as a consequence. Professor Pidgeon questioned whether the “norm of ensuring balanced reporting [...] is appropriate where the scientific evidence is so overwhelming”.68When questioned about the balance of views in the media, Sir Mark Walport told us that climate change “is not a matter for opinion or belief. It is a matter of fact whether humans are altering the climate or not. There is a correct answer to this question”. 35. In his Review of impartiality and accuracy of the BBC's coverage of science commissioned by the BBC trust and published in July 2011, Professor Steve Jones, concluded with regard to science coverage: “in general, its output is of high quality”. 69 However, he also stated that the BBC “must accept that it is impossible to produce a balance between fact and opinion” and recommended that it take into account “the need to avoid giving undue attention to marginal opinion”. 70 Professor Jones highlighted the recent efforts made by the BBC to find a climate sceptic scientists to comment on the publication on the Physical Science Basis for IPCC Fifth Assessment Report as an example of false balance: The producers of the recent Today Programme piece on the new IPCC report tried, we are told, more than a dozen qualified climate scientists willing to give an opposing view but could not find a single one (a hint, perhaps, that there is indeed a scientific consensus on global warming). Instead, they gave equal time to a well-known expert and to Australian retired geologist with no background in the field: in my view a classic of “false balance”.

They did change policy, although the BBCs scientific competence hasn't really improved


Incidentally, did you see Andrew Bridgen's last speech in Parliament
I didn't - could you summarise what you think was his strongest argument
 
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Woosh

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It has been extremely profitable lobbying against climate change and delaying action.
not just against climate change, also against nuclear power, wind farms, solar farms etc. It is a lot more profitable to dig or pump stuff out of the ground.
 

saneagle

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It has been extremely profitable lobbying against climate change and delaying action. see Naomi Oreskes "Merchants of Doubt". Unfortunately it's human nature - those that got fooled/brainwashed are unable to admit it to themselves irrespective of the evidence. "Science progresses one funeral at time"
Again anti-vaxxers have a long history - it plays to our fears



Not any more - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmsctech/254/254.pdf
They were very guilty of "false balance", inviting a contrarian guest onto every program to give their view, irrespective of the weight of scientific opinion and then unable to challenge it.

False balance Submissions to our inquiry commented on a tendency for the media to approach climate science as an argument about two equally valid points of view, rather than discussion about scientific facts, and on the false balance of views being presented as a consequence. Professor Pidgeon questioned whether the “norm of ensuring balanced reporting [...] is appropriate where the scientific evidence is so overwhelming”.68When questioned about the balance of views in the media, Sir Mark Walport told us that climate change “is not a matter for opinion or belief. It is a matter of fact whether humans are altering the climate or not. There is a correct answer to this question”. 35. In his Review of impartiality and accuracy of the BBC's coverage of science commissioned by the BBC trust and published in July 2011, Professor Steve Jones, concluded with regard to science coverage: “in general, its output is of high quality”. 69 However, he also stated that the BBC “must accept that it is impossible to produce a balance between fact and opinion” and recommended that it take into account “the need to avoid giving undue attention to marginal opinion”. 70 Professor Jones highlighted the recent efforts made by the BBC to find a climate sceptic scientists to comment on the publication on the Physical Science Basis for IPCC Fifth Assessment Report as an example of false balance: The producers of the recent Today Programme piece on the new IPCC report tried, we are told, more than a dozen qualified climate scientists willing to give an opposing view but could not find a single one (a hint, perhaps, that there is indeed a scientific consensus on global warming). Instead, they gave equal time to a well-known expert and to Australian retired geologist with no background in the field: in my view a classic of “false balance”.

They did change policy, although the BBCs scientific competence hasn't really improved




I didn't - could you summarise what you think was his strongest argument
Are you following the law suit against Asta Zeneca in the High Court? I only heard this from a third party, but the claim was that it has been confirmed as only 2% effective, 81 people have been confirmed as died directly from it and countless others have all sorts of other serious disabilities due to blood clots and neurological problems. You might note that this "100% safe and effective" vaccine has now been banned in many countries and restricted in others.

I personally know someone who got severely injured as a direct result of it, so she's watching this with interest. In case you don't know, I was hospitalised with lungs full of blood clots in 2020, which put me out of action for about 6 months, so I know what it's like. I bet a whole load of people had them and didn't even know. I only knew that something was wrong when I ran out of breath every time I tried to walk. That's because the blood vesels in my lungs were completely blocked. Apart from that, I felt fine. If only half my blood vessels were blocked, I'd probably have just felt a bit unfit and would never have known. It's a bit weird that there was no logical reason to get them. I haven't changed anything, and I haven't had them since, so there must have been a temperal cause.

It's going to be interesting to see how this case plays out. There's a lot of money at stake. pundits say that if the claimants win, it will open up the flood gates. Whichever way it goes, a lot of useful information should come from it unless AZ can find a way to persuade the cout to make it private somehow.
 

Woosh

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did you get the AZ vaccine before you were hospitalised?
 

Peter.Bridge

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Are you following the law suit against Asta Zeneca in the High Court? I only heard this from a third party, but the claim was that it has been confirmed as only 2% effective, 81 people have been confirmed as died directly from it and countless others have all sorts of other serious disabilities due to blood clots and neurological problems. You might note that this "100% safe and effective" vaccine has now been banned in many countries and restricted in others.

I personally know someone who got severely injured as a direct result of it, so she's watching this with interest. In case you don't know, I was hospitalised with lungs full of blood clots in 2020, which put me out of action for about 6 months, so I know what it's like. I bet a whole load of people had them and didn't even know. I only knew that something was wrong when I ran out of breath every time I tried to walk. That's because the blood vesels in my lungs were completely blocked. Apart from that, I felt fine. If only half my blood vessels were blocked, I'd probably have just felt a bit unfit and would never have known. It's a bit weird that there was no logical reason to get them. I haven't changed anything, and I haven't had them since, so there must have been a temperal cause.

It's going to be interesting to see how this case plays out. There's a lot of money at stake. pundits say that if the claimants win, it will open up the flood gates. Whichever way it goes, a lot of useful information should come from it unless AZ can find a way to persuade the cout to make it private somehow.
No I didn't know - hope you are feeling better - yes, as it was rolled out the monitoring discovered a (very rare) problem with the AZ vaccine which led to the guidance on its use being changed - seems pretty well explained here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67370454


 

MikelBikel

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Sounds like she hinders more than helps the Climate alarmist case.
Are the other "sources" as equally unconvincing? :)
 

saneagle

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No I didn't know - hope you are feeling better - yes, as it was rolled out the monitoring discovered a (very rare) problem with the AZ vaccine which led to the guidance on its use being changed - seems pretty well explained here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67370454


Thank you for your comments about my health. I am in pretty good shape now.

You shouldn't be taking notice of what the BBC says. I know from direct personal experience how they can show the exact opposite of what the real facts are, when i went to an event as an observer. I saw what actually happened, but i was completely astonished to see what the BBC ran with that was the exact opposite of what really happened.

I think you'll eventually find out that the damage from the AZ vaccine and probably the Pfizer one too is/was a substantially more than what has been published. We'll see what comes out of that court case.
 

Woosh

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It's quite possible that doctors in the next century will look back at covid vaccines and declare that we didn't know what we were doing. It's the same thing with cosmology. For years, children have been taught the big bang theory now with images taken with the JWT, the age of the universe is no longer 13.8 billion years.
 

Peter.Bridge

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Sounds like she hinders more than helps the Climate alarmist case.
Are the other "sources" as equally unconvincing? :)
Some of the reviews here, summarise the book well

 

lenny

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MikelBikel

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Even Nasa shows globe 15% greener, plants don't lie!

"a phenomenon most obvious in places like China and India where agriculture has intensified".
Yeah, most people like growing and esp eating food.
"Note that the map does not show overall greenness, which is why it does not exactly match heavily forested areas like the Amazon or the Congo Basin."
I.e. it cannot show the volume of vegetation, only its area.
"There is a clear greening trend in boreal and Arctic regions".
So the increased co2 has increased growth and also reduced plants need for water lost during transpiration.

"The Maldives observed significant changes to its top markets since *re-opening of borders on 15 July 2020*."
Err, I thought everywhere was locked down then, due to the "thing"?
" the Maldives welcomed a total of 555,494 international tourists in 2020.. 1.5million in 2021.. got 1.6million in 2022.. goal for 2023 is 2million".
Hold on, why isn't it underwater? Oh yeah, the sea didn't rise after all! :)

But we seem to have wandered away from electricity prices, yes?
 
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Woosh

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Hold on, why isn't it underwater? Oh yeah, the sea didn't rise after all!
sea level rises 1mm-2mm a year on average in the last 100 years.
You and I would not be there to see the Maldives (average altitude/elevation of only 1.5m) much reduced or swallowed up by the waves (in about a century or less at current rate) but governments have to plan for the long term.

 
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Peter.Bridge

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Even Nasa shows globe 15% greener, plants don't lie!

"a phenomenon most obvious in places like China and India where agriculture has intensified".
Yeah, most people like growing and esp eating food.
"Note that the map does not show overall greenness, which is why it does not exactly match heavily forested areas like the Amazon or the Congo Basin."
I.e. it cannot show the volume of vegetation, only its area.
"There is a clear greening trend in boreal and Arctic regions".
So the increased co2 has increased growth and also reduced plants need for water lost during transpiration.

"The Maldives observed significant changes to its top markets since *re-opening of borders on 15 July 2020*."
Err, I thought everywhere was locked down then, due to the "thing"?
" the Maldives welcomed a total of 555,494 international tourists in 2020.. 1.5million in 2021.. got 1.6million in 2022.. goal for 2023 is 2million".
Hold on, why isn't it underwater? Oh yeah, the sea didn't rise after all! :)

Sources: NASA, UNWTO and MaldivesTourism.
But we seem to have wandered away from electricity prices, yes?
Global Greening is a symptom of the well known phenomenon - the biosphere absorbs a lot of man made CO2. Even accounting for that CO2 has risen from 280 ppm pre industrial to 420 ppm. The worry is that as emissions increase the biosphere will not be able to absorb the same fraction of CO2 emissions as it has done historically, and we will be in more trouble than we thought.

You'd be better looking at IPCC / NASA / Royal Society analysis rather than tortured motivated reasoning of fundamentalist libertarian "think tanks" that realise global action against climate change threaten their precious world view

Better understanding carbon-climate feedbacks and reducing future risks
 
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saneagle

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sea level rises 1mm-2mm a year on average in the last 100 years.
You and I would not be there to see the Maldives (average altitude/elevation of only 1.5m) much reduced or swallowed up by the waves (in about a century or less at current rate) but governments have to plan for the long term.
It might be true that seal levels are rising today, but 10" is completely insignificant, since throughout history it has been going up and down by 300 meters and is now at a relatively low point in those cycles.

Either the idea of catastrophic and imminent sea level rise is a scam or the world leaders are confident that they can solve the problem very quickly, so there's nothing to worry about. They're all buying very expensive beach front properties. Would you do that if you thought that you'd have seawater in your living room in a few years after purchase?

Probably, the only contribution people have made to the sea level is when they dump waste in it and float boats and other stuff. I think the waste is very unfair on the sea life, so it should stop.

There are all sorts of cycles in our climate and weather that are quite predictable. Anybody can use those patterns to spin any narrative they want. We have been going through a predictable cycle of rising temperature, but, according to the predictable cycles, that will very soon come to an end and the temperature will start falling again. Some climate experts are predicting an imminent ice age, though we are technically already in one.
 
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saneagle

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Global Greening is a symptom of the well known phenomenon - the biosphere absorbs a lot of man made CO2. Even accounting for that CO2 has risen from 280 ppm pre industrial to 420 ppm. The worry is that as emissions increase the biosphere will not be able to absorb the same fraction of CO2 emissions as it has done historically, and we will be in more trouble than we thought.

You'd be better looking at IPCC / NASA / Royal Society analysis rather than tortured motivated reasoning of fundamentalist libertarian "think tanks" that realise global action against climate change threaten their precious world view

Better understanding carbon-climate feedbacks and reducing future risks
Maybe you can put all your technical theories away and get a simpler understanding of global greening:
 

Woosh

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so the local authority spent $60k painting the rock face of an old quarry to make it look nicer. Where is the harm in that? we spent £400 millions to run a mile of rail track to save 5% of travelling time. About the paint: it's the same type of paint people here use to paint over concrete.
 
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flecc

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It might be true that seal levels are rising today, but 10" is completely insignificant, since throughout history it has been going up and down by 300 meters and is now at a relatively low point in those cycles.
But the point being that we didn't need to have all the land in the past, but with over 8 billions of us and growing, needing ever more of all the land's resources, we will no longer be able to cope with the growing losses to the sea and desertification.

Ask Bangladesh, ask Somalia about this.
.
 
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saneagle

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so the local authority spent $60k painting the rock face of an old quarry to make it look nicer. Where is the harm in that? we spent £400 millions to run a mile of rail track to save 5% of travelling time. About the paint: it's the same type of paint people here use to paint over concrete.
He said they used oil based paint - not much good for wildlife. The poor lichens won't be happy, and i expect a few birds and mice might get the occasional upset stomach and death.