Prices of the electricity we use to charge

Ghost1951

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Jun 2, 2024
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We have to redistribute income or wealth or face fascism: that is the choice before us


THE RISE OF FASCISM AND THE NEGLECT OF THE POOR


Extreme Political Ideologies and Their Connection to Poverty


re misuse of the term Fascism:

Another abuse of terms by left wing ignoramuses.


What is fascism? Clearly the left don't know what it means.

Fascism is a far right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, political ideology, involving dictatorial leaders, autocracy, militarism, and the forced suppression of opposition. In particular it involves the subordination of individual rights, and economic freedom to the national interest, or the will of the leader.

The white yobs rioting, in a few run down areas, is NOTHING to do with that.

Ignorant, brain dead lefties, love to apply the term to just bout anyone they don't agree with about politics.

Putin might be described as a fascist. He fits most of the characteristics. He is:

AUTHORITARIAN
ULTRA NATIONALIST
DICTATORIAL
MILITARISTIC
SUPPRESSES OPPOSITION
SUBORDINATES INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS
DIRECTS THE ECONOMY TO HIS PROJECTS

There is no other leader in Europe who does these things.

Its such a pity that so many on the left appear never to have read a book, or been to school.

They misuse terms like average and fascism, and their useful fools post their nonsense here.

The generation who were adult in the 1930s and 1940s fought fascists in Europe in the Spanish Civil War, and in WW2.

A few fascist regimes persisted in Spain (Franco) and Portugal and Greece until the 1970s. Since then, until Putin, it has been absent and remains absent in any kind of serious form.

Anyone who thinks that Nigel Farage, or Georgia Meloni, or Madam le Pen is ANYTHING Like Adolf or Mussolini needs to be assigned a care assistant because they have special needs.
 
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lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
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764
8907707080
re misuse of the term Fascism:

Another abuse of terms by left wing ignoramuses.


What is fascism? Clearly the left don't know what it means.

Fascism is a far right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, political ideology, involving dictatorial leaders, autocracy, militarism, and the forced suppression of opposition. In particular it involves the subordination of individual rights, and economic freedom to the national interest, or the will of the leader.

The white yobs rioting, in a few run down areas, is NOTHING to do with that.

Ignorant, brain dead lefties, love to apply the term to just bout anyone they don't agree with about politics.

Putin might be described as a fascist. He fits most of the characteristics. He is:

AUTHORITARIAN
ULTRA NATIONALIST
DICTATORIAL
MILITARISTIC
SUPPRESSES OPPOSITION
SUBORDINATES INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS
DIRECTS THE ECONOMY TO HIS PROJECTS

There is no other leader in Europe who does these things.

Its such a pity that so many on the left appear never to have read a book, or been to school.

They misuse terms like average and fascism, and their useful fools post their nonsense here.

The generation who were adult in the 1930s and 1940s fought fascists in Europe in the Spanish Civil War in WW2. A few fascist regimes persisted in Spain (Franco) and Portugal and Greece until the 1970s. Since then, until Putin, it has been absent and remains absent in any kind of serious form.

Anyone who thinks that Nigel Farage, or Georgia Meloni, or Madam le Pen is ANYTHING Like Adolf or Mussolini needs to be assigned a care assistant because they have special needs.

"Fascio, Italian for a bundle or sheath, conveying “strength through unity,” the unifying force being the government and its supreme leader. As Mussolini put it: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”"

 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,153
30,569
The average household budget is £567.70 per week or £29,520 so a £280 "hike to household bills" represents an increase of just 0.0095%.

Actually 0.95% as @Woosh has noted, but by how much doesn't necessarily matter as much as whether it is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

When the cost of living feels more like the cost of survival, when the prospects of better become more and more remote, when hope changes to despair, that is when feelings change from unhappy to annoyance, then to anger, fury and rebellion.

I foresee increasing trouble on the way.

Here's an indication of how drastically life and its prospects have changed over a lifetime for ordinary working people like me:

In 1968 at a little over 30 years old I moved into the small flat I'd just bought. It cost just 1.6 times my a little above average income as a service engineer. Today for someone on average income it would cost at least 5 times income.

Nor was it the first property I bought. Just 7 years earlier at 24 years old I bought a quality three bedroom bungalow for my parents to live in free, rather than them throwing money at rising rents. It cost just £2650 in 1961.

At 16 years old I bought my first motorbike, an almost new 250 twin. Two years later I owned my first car, born the same year I was.

I retired early in my fifties and have lived a comfortable life for the 34 years since, enjoying 6 brand new cars bought during that time, currently a battery electric one.

What's the chance today of anyone young from a poor working class background like me, doing ordinary jobs for only 38 years, being able to live an easy 88 year life like that?

Very little I'd think.
.
 

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
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Ghost1951

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Jun 2, 2024
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Britain’s housing supply issues began in 1947, not 1980
Hundred percent correct. The Town and Country Planning Act of 1947 has been a disaster on every level. It interferes with the rights of every one of us who owns a property to do with it what we want. Not only does it do that, it prevents the development of vital infrastructure such as power lines, roads, railways and causes huge increases in development costs. It is the reason that building say a nuclear power station here costs about four times as much as it would cost elsewhere and takes twenty years to get through approval and development.

A very good essay was posted on here a few weeks ago. I saved the link and sent t to my friends. It is long, but it comes down very heavily on planning sclerosis as a major reason why the UK is poorer than it should be.



An extract from the above:
"The source of the problem
In 1947, the Town and Country Planning Act (TCPA) was introduced, part of the postwar reform programme that nationalised nearly every major industry, from steel to man-with-van road haulage companies, and normalised top tax rates at over 90 percent. The TCPA completely removed most of the incentive for councils to give planning permissions by removing their obligation to compensate those whose development rights they restricted. Other reforms at around the same time also redistributed away much of the upside that councils had received from development through local property taxes.
The law also added a requirement to get permission from national government for any development, and to pay to the national government a tax of 100 percent on any value that resulted from permission being granted. Most notoriously, the TCPA instituted the legal powers that were used to create and expand green belts the following decade, prohibiting development on large rings of land around England’s cities.1

Overall, it moved Britain from a system where almost any development was permitted anywhere, to one where development was nearly always prohibited. Despite some minor later liberalisations, like the introduction of permitted development rights in the 1980s, the underlying problem remains. Since the TCPA was introduced in 1947, private housebuilding has never reached Victorian levels, let alone the record progress achieved just before the Second World War."
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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577
What is relative poverty as defined in that Big Issue article?

A well educated gentleman of this forum approved of the article even though he ought to know better.

Relative poverty is defined as a family having only 60% of the MEDIAN income.

Median being what I said above, the middle value in the income distribution. There MUST be the same number above as below the median by definition. It must ALWAYS be teh case that half of the population are above and half below the median income.

IF the median income was as much as £100,000 a year (wouldn't that be nice) half the population would be below that level and if they ONLY had an income of £60,000 they would be defined as living in poverty. Therefore the statistic of relative poverty is MEANINGLESS and is a statistical trick to beat any government with.

Besides - governments do not dictate income except in a tiny way by defining the minimum wage.

Businesses dictate income.
Productivity dictates income
World conditions dictate income.

COVID PANDEMIC
WAR IN EUROPE
COMPETITION for manufactured goods from China

These have FAR more impact on income in the UK than either a Labour or a Conservative government.

You lefties among the readers are going to see exactly that as time goes on and Labour is also seen to be unable to change the winds that blow in from elsewhere.
 

SHA222

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 13, 2022
19
8
re misuse of the term Fascism:

Another abuse of terms by left wing ignoramuses.


What is fascism? Clearly the left don't know what it means.

Fascism is a far right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, political ideology, involving dictatorial leaders, autocracy, militarism, and the forced suppression of opposition. In particular it involves the subordination of individual rights, and economic freedom to the national interest, or the will of the leader.

The white yobs rioting, in a few run down areas, is NOTHING to do with that.

Ignorant, brain dead lefties, love to apply the term to just bout anyone they don't agree with about politics.

Putin might be described as a fascist. He fits most of the characteristics. He is:

AUTHORITARIAN
ULTRA NATIONALIST
DICTATORIAL
MILITARISTIC
SUPPRESSES OPPOSITION
SUBORDINATES INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS
DIRECTS THE ECONOMY TO HIS PROJECTS

There is no other leader in Europe who does these things.

Its such a pity that so many on the left appear never to have read a book, or been to school.

They misuse terms like average and fascism, and their useful fools post their nonsense here.

The generation who were adult in the 1930s and 1940s fought fascists in Europe in the Spanish Civil War, and in WW2.

A few fascist regimes persisted in Spain (Franco) and Portugal and Greece until the 1970s. Since then, until Putin, it has been absent and remains absent in any kind of serious form.

Anyone who thinks that Nigel Farage, or Georgia Meloni, or Madam le Pen is ANYTHING Like Adolf or Mussolini needs to be assigned a care assistant because they have special needs.
At least some of the people you mentioned sang Hitler youth songs and they sympathize with the idealogy. Draw your own conclusions.
 

MikelBikel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
860
319
Ireland
Another thing that's changed.
London mayor used to travel on the tube..
Now he tears around in a cavalcade of armored turbo v8 range rovers.
I wonder what's changed? :cool:
Ken-Livingstone-tube.jpg
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,522
577
At least some of the people you mentioned sang Hitler youth songs and they sympathize with the idealogy. Draw your own conclusions.
It makes no difference that some ar se hole in a party misbehaves. A Labour MP is about to be charged for beating up a man in drunken rage in a taxi queue for engaging him in a conversation on the winter fuel payment. That's on him, and not his party.

NOTHING you raised alters the definition of what fascism is. There is no rise in fascism in Europe. What has happened is that in several countries the people in free countries have chosen to elect larger numbers of people of right of centre political disposition. NONE of those parties have programmes of a fascist nature. ie None are planning to jail opposition, to set up militaristic regimes, to control the means of production and direct it to the aims of the state, to remove personal freedoms and direct people to the ends of the state.

You may not like right of centre politics. Put a stronger argument then, so that people come towards the centre left. When Meloni, or the others ban elections, glorify the Furher, and force people into work camps to do the bidding of the government, then you might have fascism.

Calling people of teh democratic right 'Fascists' undermines the true horror of what fascism is.

Hitler
Franco
Putin
Mussolini

All of them murdered /murder anyone who opposes them. They all made war on opponents and on other countries - proper wars - not rhetoric.
 
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SHA222

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 13, 2022
19
8
Hundred percent correct. The Town and Country Planning Act of 1947 has been a disaster on every level. It interferes with the rights of every one of us who owns a property to do with it what we want. Not only does it do that, it prevents the development of vital infrastructure such as power lines, roads, railways and causes huge increases in development costs. It is the reason that building say a nuclear power station here costs about four times as much as it would cost elsewhere and takes twenty years to get through approval and development.

A very good essay was posted on here a few weeks ago. I saved the link and sent t to my friends. It is long, but it comes down very heavily on planning sclerosis as a major reason why the UK is poorer than it should be.



An extract from the above:
"The source of the problem
In 1947, the Town and Country Planning Act (TCPA) was introduced, part of the postwar reform programme that nationalised nearly every major industry, from steel to man-with-van road haulage companies, and normalised top tax rates at over 90 percent. The TCPA completely removed most of the incentive for councils to give planning permissions by removing their obligation to compensate those whose development rights they restricted. Other reforms at around the same time also redistributed away much of the upside that councils had received from development through local property taxes.
The law also added a requirement to get permission from national government for any development, and to pay to the national government a tax of 100 percent on any value that resulted from permission being granted. Most notoriously, the TCPA instituted the legal powers that were used to create and expand green belts the following decade, prohibiting development on large rings of land around England’s cities.1

Overall, it moved Britain from a system where almost any development was permitted anywhere, to one where development was nearly always prohibited. Despite some minor later liberalisations, like the introduction of permitted development rights in the 1980s, the underlying problem remains. Since the TCPA was introduced in 1947, private housebuilding has never reached Victorian levels, let alone the record progress achieved just before the Second World War."
You are right in the effect of the planning regulations on the development of housing sites. However it is the lack of investment in the public housing that has created this problem since Margaret Thatcher's right to buy scheme and the cut backs in Local Authority funding for housing. The local authorities used to have housing departments with skilled Engineers and Architects who used to design and build local housing estates. They were all made redundant by the Tory policies over 30 years and we are now paying the price for these ill conceived policies.
It was relatively easy for most young people to buy homes until 1980s.
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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You are right in the effect of the planning regulations on the development of housing sites. However it is the lack of investment in the public housing that has created this problem since Margaret Thatcher's right to buy scheme and the cut backs in Local Authority funding for housing. The local authorities used to have housing departments with skilled Engineers and Architects who used to design and build local housing estates. They were all made redundant by the Tory policies over 30 years and we are now paying the price for these ill conceived policies.
It was relatively easy for most young people to buy homes until 1980s.
I've been banging on about this for fifteen years or more. It is a disaster, but it is also under pinned by that 1947 act.

But there is another thing and it is inescapable. Since 1995 we have had millions of migrants. Migration is adding huge numbers each year to the population so the already short supply of accommodation is being massively magnified.

This country has always had a level of migration. About half of my genetic make up came here from abroad about 130 years ago. Irish and Italian - a quarter each. However - the number of migrants in the period since 1995 amounts to about ten million souls and now, we would seem powerless to stop large numbers of illegal migrants entering and staying here. This year already we have documented 30,000 illegal landings. That number is only what we know about. All of those people need housing. We can not ever catch up unless we get control of that and BUILD BUILD BUILD to make up the backlog.

I have always campaigned against the waste of money of HS2. That money should have gone into building local authority housing.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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At least some of the people you mentioned sang Hitler youth songs and they sympathize with the idealogy. Draw your own conclusions.
By the way - can you show how any of Farage, Meloni, or Marine le Penn have EVER sung Hitler Youth songs or sympathised with Nazi ideology.

I can't think of anything like that in any of those people's backgrounds. If you can't stand up that slur you maybe should apologise. It is probably a libel.

EDIT:

By the way, I am not a supporter of any of those people. If I had my wish, at the next election Kemi Badenoch would be PM.

Meanwhile we have to hope that the Labour government can sort out some of our problems - like the NHS which has gone AWOL for many people. This at a time when the NHS has never in its history had more money. I'm 73 and I have not seen an actual GP in person since 2nd June 2010 - more than ten years.

60787
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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8907707080


"Fascio, Italian for a bundle or sheath, conveying “strength through unity,” the unifying force being the government and its supreme leader. As Mussolini put it: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”"

You can post pictures of Mussolini as often as you like Lenny - you still don't understand what Fascism is if you think it exists in Europe outside Putin's Russia, or his satellite states like Belarus.

I think though you may be directing the Italian dictator picture at me because I am a quarter Italian. In which case you are a racist.... Well well. How about that? I might report it as a non crime hate incident.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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577
Actually 0.95% as @Woosh has noted, but by how much doesn't necessarily matter as much as whether it is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

When the cost of living feels more like the cost of survival, when the prospects of better become more and more remote, when hope changes to despair, that is when feelings change from unhappy to annoyance, then to anger, fury and rebellion.

I foresee increasing trouble on the way.

Here's an indication of how drastically life and its prospects have changed over a lifetime for ordinary working people like me:

In 1968 at a little over 30 years old I moved into the small flat I'd just bought. It cost just 1.6 times my a little above average income as a service engineer. Today for someone on average income it would cost at least 5 times income.

Nor was it the first property I bought. Just 7 years earlier at 24 years old I bought a quality three bedroom bungalow for my parents to live in free, rather than them throwing money at rising rents. It cost just £2650 in 1961.

At 16 years old I bought my first motorbike, an almost new 250 twin. Two years later I owned my first car, born the same year I was.

I retired early in my fifties and have lived a comfortable life for the 34 years since, enjoying 6 brand new cars bought during that time, currently a battery electric one.

What's the chance today of anyone young from a poor working class background like me, doing ordinary jobs for only 38 years, being able to live an easy 88 year life like that?

Very little I'd think.
.
Almost all of the decline in opportunity that you describe comes down to the massive shortage of housing which has driven up prices. This is caused by planning restrictions and the legal ability of objectors to stop development, and population growth at alarming levels.

When I was born the UK population was 50 million. It is now officially at 68 million and really much more - probably at least 75 million.

Shortage means that people have to outbid one another to secure a purchase or a rental. This sucks out of their pockets a very large amount of disposable income and they are consequently much poorer.

The only answer to this is to cut migration, reform planning and for government to take development by the ears and drive it forward with huge investment.

Rayner is completely right to say she will reform 'Right to Buy'. It was a huge mistake, but it is NOT the major cause of housing shortage. All those old council houses are lived in now. They are still houses in occupation.