Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Deleted member 16246]

Well that is pretty early on , I guess that there has been a lot more research into it since then but I still think "a laboratory escape scenario cannot be excluded" even if it less likely than a zoonotic explanation.
The last bit of evidence I can find is from March last year which suggested raccoon dogs in the market were infected with the virus. This adds to the evidence of a natural spillover event

New Evidence Supports Animal Origin of COVID Virus through Raccoon Dogs

Genetic sequences show evidence of raccoon dogs and other animals at the Wuhan market sites where SARS-CoV-2 was found in early 2020, adding to evidence of a natural spillover event

www.scientificamerican.com

There is no evidence that ANY animal population has a virus anywhere near the original Sars-Cov-2.

What we do have are a lot of protest from virologists saying the pandemic was a natural spill over (zoonotic event) for their own reasons.

There is a conspiracy here. Peter Danzak is at the heart of it. These people want to be able to continue doing gain of function research in less than stellar lab security, so are left to manipulate non dangerous viruses to humans and make them dangerous. They do this because they say it will help us prepare for a pandemic. They caused one. They rubbish the obvious fact, that the virus emerged a few kilometers from a lab that has been doing genetic manipulation of Bat viruses related to Sars-Cov-2 since about 2017.

None of the research into market animals found Sars-Cov-2 IN animals on sale or the farms they came from. They DID find Sars-Cov-2 on some surfaces at the market, but by then, the virus was all over Wuhan. It had emerged in the human population in November 2019 and they were examining the market in January 2020. By then, you could find Sars-Cov- 2 in British sewage ponds, in Marks & Spencers, and all over the world. It doesn't mean it started outside China as the Chinese were saying in the presence of WHO officials, when the blamed New Zealand seafood at the Wuhan market.

Early on, Peter Danzak organised a group of prominent virologists to sign a letter condemning the lab leak theory as racist and unscientific. The problem is it was him that had applied for grants to do dangerous gain of function research on bat viruses at the Wuhan lab. He is up to his neck in that dangerous work AND the emergence of an invented disease that killed millions of people world wide and wrecked economies and led to never before seen infringements of our liberty.

Gain of function viral research needs to be banned world wide. We got lucky this time. It could have been far worse. Sars-Cov-2 (world wide) at the start of the pandemic, was killing about 3% of those infected. It was much lower in richer countries, but still extremely serious, and it wasn't just ancient old folk who were badly affected. Just ask Derek Draper's wife. How about the escape of a virus which had the fatality rates of the rabbit virus myxomatosis, which when it first emerged killed 98% of the infected animals. This COULD happen if we don't regulate that kind of virology work to the maximum extent. All it takes is the right virus and a sloppy, tired worker to infect himself accidentally and then go home on the bus.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

This is the record from the Mauna Loa Observatory that opened in 1958

View attachment 57656


But this still seems consistent with his pledge for China emissions to peak before 2030 (some analysts say this has already happened) and be carbon neutral by 2060. They are also building a huge amount of renewables power plants, China has no gas power plants (which are used in the west for "standby" and when renewables are not generating)

China is building more coal plants but might burn less coal

China is adding more coal capacity, but its plants are running less often.

www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com

The Chinese are building new coal fired power stations all over Africa.

Like me, Shi jinping will be dead in twenty years.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

What you say is logical. It's based on the charts being true. Neither you nor I measured the CO2 1000 years ago and again today with the same equipment and the same method.

The way I see it is why would the Western world leaders support burning down every tree and forest in Ukraine and sending millions of tons of explosives there to release all their CO2 into the atmosphere, and likewise to Israel, if they were worried about the amount of CO2 in the air, and why would Xi Xing Ping be building a new coal-fired power plant every week. Surely, the Chinese have a lot of very clever people there, who should be able to figure all this out?

https://boris.unibe.ch/158503/1/siegenthaler84cc.pdf

This article describes some of the issues with historic co2 measurements, but the size of the possible error is so small that it doesn't matter. The debate here is whether the methods REALLY found co2 at levels like 280 parts per million of co2 to atmosphere or 300 parts per million. The current measurement is yelding figures of 410 parts per million.

The level has increased greatly, and we should all be doing things to prevent further increase (which YOU are doing as you pointed out above).

For me - my main gripe is the overblown, exaggerated hysteria about the world burning up and everyone dying.

One day, this planet WILL be like Venus with surface temperatures around 400c. This will happen because the sun will expand in 1 to 5 billion years. It will not be happening because I drive a petrol car, and people go on holiday in jet planes.

Our species has shown even in pre-industrial times that our ingenuity is so great that we can adapt to and live in every environment on this planet, no matter how adverse. We will certainly adapt to changes of 2.5 degrees of warming.

In the Cretaceous period of geological time when the dinosaurs were roaming a jungle planet, co2 was far higher than now and the planet was about six degrees c warmer than now.

Greenhouse farmers artificially boost co2 levels to more than twice the present outdoor level and raise the temperature artificially too. Why do they do this? To grow more food. This end of the world hype is bo llox.

This Pub Med article suggests that in the Cretaceous period, planetary temperatures were as much as twelve degrees C hotter than now and that co2 levels were as much as 14 times what we have seen in recent times. The period discussed was a time of massive species and plant diversity, but many of the creatures were giant carnivorous lizards.....

The mid-Cretaceous super plume, carbon dioxide, and global warming - PubMed

Carbon-dioxide releases associated with a mid-Cretaceous super plume and the emplacement of the Ontong-Java Plateau have been suggested as a principal cause of the mid-Cretaceous global warming. We developed a carbonate-silicate cycle model to quantify the possible climatic effects of these CO2...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 16246]

@ Saneagle ->

The way I see it is why would the Western world leaders support burning down every tree and forest in Ukraine and sending millions of tons of explosives there to release all their CO2 into the atmosphere, and likewise to Israel, if they were worried about the amount of CO2 in the air, and why would Xi Xing Ping be building a new coal-fired power plant every week. Surely, the Chinese have a lot of very clever people there, who should be able to figure all this out?

Some matters are much more important than Co2.

Do we allow dictators to invade countries in Europe and turn them into brutal prison camps filled with the ruins of people's hopes, buildings and economies, or do we stop them?

If Putin succeeds in Ukraine, where will he go next in re-establishing the old Soviet bloc of slaves and prison countries?

He has lectured the world at length in several of his three hour addresses about what a geopolitical disaster the end of the Soviet Union was for Russia. He wants it back. He has said so. If we do not fight him and destroy his armies so that he is deposed and replaced, he WILL do it. Will it be Poland next, or the Baltic states? And after that? He will do it.

If we are frightened by his nuclear threats and reduced to quivering cowardice he will walk all over what we use to call Eastern Europe.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

There is no evidence that ANY animal population has a virus anywhere near the original Sars-Cov-2.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04532-4

 

[Woosh]

These people want to be able to continue doing gain of function research in less than stellar lab security, so are left to manipulate non dangerous viruses to humans and make them dangerous. They do this because they say it will help us prepare for a pandemic. They caused one. They rubbish the obvious fact, that the virus emerged a few kilometers from a lab that has been doing genetic manipulation of Bat viruses related to Sars-Cov-2 since about 2017.

those same people would have strong interests in testing their work in the field or seeing it tested.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04532-4

No one thinks that the virus was manufactured from scratch.

The nearest virus found in nature to Sars-cov-2 is the RatG13 virus, but this lacks the furin cleavage site and the ability to infect ACE2 receptors in human lung cells.

NO animal sold in that Wuhan market was found which was carrying the Sars-Cov-2 virus. THIS would be the smoking gun in identifying natural transfer from animals.

Read Alina Chan's scholarly but readable book - Viral. It isn't a difficult read and she is viral geneticist. Her arguments are compelling. Even so, she doesn't come down and say 100% this was engineered at Wuhan, but that it is extremely likely. Since the pandemic, everything at that lab has suddenly been locked down and previously open material about what they had and what they were doing is now locked down. You have to ask why they would do that.


From your referenced article:

The spike sequence seems essential, as it determines the binding affinity and accessibility of the receptor-binding domain (RBD) to the cellular ACE2 receptor and is therefore responsible for host range10,11,12. The closest related bat strain identified so far (RaTG13) has a low RBD sequence similarity to SARS-CoV-2, and with only 11/17 hACE2 contact amino acid residues conserved with SARS-CoV-2, its affinity for hACE2 is very limited16. Moreover, SARS-CoV-2 poorly infects bats and bat cells tested so far17. In addition, no bat SARS-CoV-2-like virus has been shown to use hACE2 to efficiently enter human cells, and none has the furin cleavage site that is associated with an increased pathogenicity in humans18. The SARS-CoV-2 RBD binds to R. macrotis ACE2 with a lower affinity than to hACE2 (ref. 19). An essential piece of information—finding bat viruses with an RBD motif genetically close to that of SARS-CoV-2 and capable of binding to hACE2 with high affinity—is therefore missing.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

those same people would have strong interests in testing their work in the field or seeing it tested.

Only a dystopian terrorist group would deliberately release such a virus in their own backyard. It DID start in Wuhan. You would have to be insane to release that among your own people.

Besides, if you wanted to test it against human cells, you would do it with genetically altered 'humanised mice' WHICH THEY DO USE AT the Wuhan Institute of Virology. They talked about that in grant applications to the Eco Health Alliance of America which is run by Peter Danzac.

If this was some wicked military experiment, they could confine human prisoners in a military lab and infect them. The Chinese use prisoner organs in transplants. I doubt their miltary would scruple over that.

I consider the accusation of a deliberate policy of releasing a dangerous virus in China that ravaged their population leading to thousands of people being confined in their tower blocks with the gates welded up to be completely bonkers. The death rate in China at the start was 3% of confirmed infected people.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

No one thinks that the virus was manufactured from scratch.

The nearest virus found in nature to Sars-cov-2 is the RatG13 virus, but this lacks the furin cleavage site and the ability to infect ACE2 receptors in human lung cells.

From your referenced article:

I think you are misreading my referenced article the "so far" means until this research

Here is a report on that article

https://www.science.org/content/article/close-cousins-sars-cov-2-found-cave-laos-yield-new-clues-about-pandemic-s-origins

When SARS-CoV-2 was discovered in early 2020, some researchers initially suspected it might have been engineered in a laboratory and accidentally escaped, in part because a region of the viral surface protein that latches onto human cellular receptors had an uncanny fit. “It looked kind of strange, right?” says Edward Holmes, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Sydney. “People were saying, well, maybe that’s been selected in a lab.”

Now, however, the discovery of three coronaviruses in bats living in limestone caves in Laos adds substantial weight to existing evidence that the virus was not engineered, Holmes says. The three viruses, reported in a preprint on Research Square on 17 September, are the closest relatives to SARS-CoV-2 found to date, and they are the first discovered that are nearly identical in that key region. “The core, functional part of SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin,” says Linfa Wang, a bat coronavirus researcher at the Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore. “It’s proven.”

 

[Woosh]

Only a dystopian terrorist group would deliberately release such a virus in their own backyard.

Who says their backyard? Suppose you asked me to make you a virus that can do what SARS and MERS can do but with enhanced infectivity. Where would I start? What would I do when I finish the job? What would you do with the samples?

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Who says their backyard? Suppose you asked me to make you a virus that can do what SARS and MERS can do but with enhanced infectivity. Where would I start? What would I do when I finish the job? What would you do with the samples?

The disease first appeared in Wuhan.

 

[Woosh]

The disease first appeared in Wuhan.

Samples could have been sent from/to anywhere.

 

[saneagle]

But who cares what is on Hunter Biden's laptop?

It shows that Hunter Biden was acting as Joe Biden's agent to arrange taking money from Ukraine and China while Joe was Vice President, then, when Biden becomes President, he sends billions of dollars to Ukraine and let's China do whatever they want.

Remember, a Ukrainian prosecutor started investigating what Hunter Biden was doing, so Joe Biden got him sacked. Joe bragged about it on TV. That's the quid pro quo that they tried to impeach Trump for, but he didn't actually do it. See here. Start at 1:00.

 

[saneagle]

There is no evidence that ANY animal population has a virus anywhere near the original Sars-Cov-2.

What we do have are a lot of protest from virologists saying the pandemic was a natural spill over (zoonotic event) for their own reasons.

There is a conspiracy here. Peter Danzak is at the heart of it. These people want to be able to continue doing gain of function research in less than stellar lab security, so are left to manipulate non dangerous viruses to humans and make them dangerous. They do this because they say it will help us prepare for a pandemic. They caused one. They rubbish the obvious fact, that the virus emerged a few kilometers from a lab that has been doing genetic manipulation of Bat viruses related to Sars-Cov-2 since about 2017.

None of the research into market animals found Sars-Cov-2 IN animals on sale or the farms they came from. They DID find Sars-Cov-2 on some surfaces at the market, but by then, the virus was all over Wuhan. It had emerged in the human population in November 2019 and they were examining the market in January 2020. By then, you could find Sars-Cov- 2 in British sewage ponds, in Marks & Spencers, and all over the world. It doesn't mean it started outside China as the Chinese were saying in the presence of WHO officials, when the blamed New Zealand seafood at the Wuhan market.

Early on, Peter Danzak organised a group of prominent virologists to sign a letter condemning the lab leak theory as racist and unscientific. The problem is it was him that had applied for grants to do dangerous gain of function research on bat viruses at the Wuhan lab. He is up to his neck in that dangerous work AND the emergence of an invented disease that killed millions of people world wide and wrecked economies and led to never before seen infringements of our liberty.

Gain of function viral research needs to be banned world wide. We got lucky this time. It could have been far worse. Sars-Cov-2 (world wide) at the start of the pandemic, was killing about 3% of those infected. It was much lower in richer countries, but still extremely serious, and it wasn't just ancient old folk who were badly affected. Just ask Derek Draper's wife. How about the escape of a virus which had the fatality rates of the rabbit virus myxomatosis, which when it first emerged killed 98% of the infected animals. This COULD happen if we don't regulate that kind of virology work to the maximum extent. All it takes is the right virus and a sloppy, tired worker to infect himself accidentally and then go home on the bus.

Good points, but you forgot to mention that Daszak's Eco Health Alliance, who were paying the Wuhan lab to do the research, got the money from Faucci's NIAID, and Shi Zhenli, who was the principle virologist there doing the research, credited Faucci as the sponsor when she wrote her paper about how she had achieved making a bat virus infect humans.

 

[Woosh]

It shows that Hunter Biden was acting as Joe Biden's agent to arrange taking money from Ukraine and China while Joe was Vice President, then, when Biden becomes President, he sends billions of dollars to Ukraine and let's China do whatever they want.

he sent more than 100 billions worth of aids but only about 20% of the amount is cash, the rest is in weapons paid to American companies. As for Biden's corruption, it remains to be tested in court where the debate is properly fair. Hunter Biden claims that the incriminating emails were inserted into his laptop and he is prepared to sue for defamation when the right wing media such as Fox News use them. Until now, the maga republicans have systematically have been caught lying and lost in Court, even in front of republican judges. Did you follow the cross examimation of Stormy Daniels yesterday? The transcript made me giggle when Necklace asked Daniels who she called the orange turd.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Good points, but you forgot to mention that Daszak's Eco Health Alliance, who were paying the Wuhan lab to do the research, got the money from Faucci's NIAID, and Shi Zhenli, who was the principle virologist there doing the research, credited Faucci as the sponsor when she wrote her paper about how she had achieved making a bat virus infect humans.

I mentioned them in other posts but I spelled Danszac's name wrongly.

Dr Shi produced grant applications referred to in Alina Chan's book where she proposed taking bat corona viruses and modifying them to become human pathogens derived from bat viruses they had in store at Wuhan. I have read the application, but don't have time to go and find references to it. As I recall, she mentioned the technique called 'serial passage'which means taking the viruses through many generations to select the ones that became more human pathogenic in nature. This work was done in mice with genetic modifications to make them humanlike in the lung tissue. The WIV Professor Shi works at in Wuhan, did not in the end get the grant from Eco Health for reasons of scruples from American regulators, but they were doing that kind of work, and the WIV was not short of cash from China itself, so there is no way they did not continue what they were doing when the grant got knocked back.

The WIV also held the RatG13 virus, which is the nearest virus we know of in genetic make up to Sars-Cov-2. Of course it is odd that whereas their virus database up until January 2020 was online for researchers world wide, it suddenly vanished when the people started getting very sick with Sars-Cov-2.

It's a slam dunk as far as any sensible person is concerned - even though obfuscation from China has hidden the smoking gun of reports on the actual virus that escaped and how it happened.

EDIT:

One of Alina Chan's key points is that it is impossibly rare for a virus to suddenly emerge naturally that is so perfectly adapted to infect its host. Sars-Cov-2 WAS hat perfect storm of an infective virus. She also points out that when viruses DO emerge naturally (like MERS which came from camels to people) the genome of the emerging virus changes in multiple ways very rapidly as the imperfect new version tunes in to the new host's differences . This did not happen with Sars-Cov-2. The changes are much more minor, she says.

EDIT#2

Yes on Faucci. Though I do not have a grasp of what exactly he did. Faucci, I think has some role in giving out grants. I am not aware that any American money was ever finally given to the Wuhan lab in the time frame that is relevant to the emergence of the disease. My understanding is that Danszak's outfit declined the Prof Shi ZengLi application for money to do serial passage on bat corona viruses.

 

[saneagle]

he sent more than 100 billions worth of aids but only about 20% of the amount is cash, the rest is in weapons paid to American companies. As for Biden's corruption, it remains to be tested in court where the debate is properly fair. Hunter Biden claims that the incriminating emails were inserted into his laptop and he is prepared to sue for defamation when the right wing media such as Fox News use them. Until now, the maga republicans have systematically have been caught lying and lost in Court, even in front of republican judges. Did you follow the cross examimation of Stormy Daniels yesterday? The transcript made me giggle when Necklace asked Daniels who she called the orange turd.

Normally, her testimony shouldn't be admissible, because she started off by saying that she hates Trump and she owes him $500k, which she says he will never get. That's what was awarded to trump by a fair judge after her failed lawsuit against him.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

I think you are misreading my referenced article the "so far" means until this research

Here is a report on that article

https://www.science.org/content/article/close-cousins-sars-cov-2-found-cave-laos-yield-new-clues-about-pandemic-s-origins

When SARS-CoV-2 was discovered in early 2020, some researchers initially suspected it might have been engineered in a laboratory and accidentally escaped, in part because a region of the viral surface protein that latches onto human cellular receptors had an uncanny fit. “It looked kind of strange, right?” says Edward Holmes, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Sydney. “People were saying, well, maybe that’s been selected in a lab.”

Now, however, the discovery of three coronaviruses in bats living in limestone caves in Laos adds substantial weight to existing evidence that the virus was not engineered, Holmes says. The three viruses, reported in a preprint on Research Square on 17 September, are the closest relatives to SARS-CoV-2 found to date, and they are the first discovered that are nearly identical in that key region. “The core, functional part of SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin,” says Linfa Wang, a bat coronavirus researcher at the Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore. “It’s proven.”

The BANAL virus is able to utilise the furin cleavage method of infecting a human cells, but the virus is nothing near Sars-Cov-2 in genetic makeup. It is true and was known that some viruses have this feature in one way or another, but that does not (as the article says) disallow the idea that this particular virus that causes Covid-19 was made by serial passage in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The nearest virus to it in the wild (in animals) was RaTG13. This virus does not have that furin cleavage ability. RaTG13 was in store at the Wuhan Lab and its genome was published by them but all access to that database was stopped in January 2020 when people became sick in Wuhan and they started welding the doors of apartment buildings to keep people inside.

 

[Woosh]

Normally, her testimony shouldn't be admissible, because she started off by saying that she hates Trump and she owes him $500k, which she says he will never get. That's what was awarded to trump by a fair judge after her failed lawsuit against him.

I thought that the prosecution only wanted her testimony aired and tested in court. I don't expect Trump going to jail over this case. His lawyers will easily delay the outcome until November. After that, Trump won't be a threat anymore.

 

[saneagle]

I thought that the prosecution only wanted her testimony aired and tested in court. I don't expect Trump going to jail over this case. His lawyers will easily delay the outcome until November. After that, Trump won't be a threat anymore.

It's just theatre. They want any excuse to be able to put up people to say bad things about Trump that they can use the media and social media to amplify. It's basically a political campaign for the election. The problem is that most US citizens understand that now, so the more they do, the worse it gets for them.

Gold and silver are climbing agai - always a sign of imminent disaster.