Price impact of the "deal"?

[MikelBikel]

While the BBC says "continue EU trading with no extra taxes.. but plenty of non-tariff barriers"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-55433447

And
I find this EU website difficult to fathom, hehe.

Language selection | European Commission

ec.europa.eu

But there is a downloadable summary, not encouraging..

"UK goods no longer benefit from free movement of
goods, leading to more red tape for businesses and
adjustments in EU-UK supply chains
‣ Customs formalities and checks on UK goods
entering the EU, with more border delays
‣ VAT and, where applicable, excise duties (e.g. on
alcoholic beverages, tobacco products, etc.) due
upon importation (including for online purchases)
‣ UK producers wishing to cater to both EU and UK
markets must meet both sets of standards and
regulations and fulfil all applicable compliance
checks by EU bodies (no equivalence of conformity
assessment)" are the cons, phew.

 

[Fordulike]

I see one of the biggest issues, for me anyway, is not the fact that we may pay a little more for goods from the EU. Hell, the electric bike hobby has never been cheap full stop.

It's the fact that now, once speedy deliveries from the EU on spares, will be much slower. It doesn't help that we are in the middle of a pandemic either. If something goes pop on my mid drive motor, then it's likely to be out of action for longer than usual. I probably won't be able to rely on an EU eBay seller to get the part to me so quickly (3 days from Germany with my usual vendor)

Of course, most people buy their spares from Chinese sellers, but it's still nice to have a broader choice of vendors to choose from.

Once businesses get their heads round the red tape and Covid is all but eradicated, then hopefully the situation will improve.

 

[richtea99]

... are the cons, phew.

I'm sure someone will be along soon to explain the pros.


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Oh oh oh - I've got one, I've got one!
- being able to negotiate a better trade deal with other countries than the EU can.

Yeah, I'm sure that's an easy one.

 

[Ocsid]

I'm sure someone will be along soon to explain the pros.

I think I have identified "it", all those thousands of jobs building the lorry holding parks, roads for them, the customs buildings and the jobs as customs officers.
Then Dell will make a killing on the computer hardware and some "friend of a cabinet member" will do nicely with several iterations of the needed software. Plus there will be jobs for some company to come in and debug it and a contract to maintain it all.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Utter nonsense. Germany is an EU member and lacks these imaginary problems.

They do better because they are better at competing in almost all spheres than we are.
.

Don't quite understand your point I've said all along we haven't competed in the EU well and the extra burden of tax and payments to the EU adds to the pain so how exactly is it utter nonsense when you are repeating my own viewpoint. The issue is how you deal with the situation, do you just stay in the EU and keep borrowing more and more money?

Anyway we are agreed we aren't competing, we both may vary on our opinion on why we aren't competing but the end result is we both agree we aren't competing so we need to get out of the situation that is causing horrific debts for our children and grandchildren and destroying our public services.

We should have never sold so many assets like housing stock and borrowed and if we had followed that path we probably would have had an economic collapse in the 80s or maybe 90s and we would have left 30 years ago because the damage caused by the being in the EU would have been more obvious rather than patched over by borrowing or asset stripping.

There is always a tendency for big firms to take over small firms and larger countries to prosper more than smaller countries. A company worth $1 billion in its home market will find it much easier to take over a £200 million UK company than a £200 million company taking over a $1 billion company. There is never a level playing field when one countries companies are larger than another countries. Germany has bought many firms across all of the EU and I don't think that is surprising but again I'm not here to complain about Germany.

Anyway its critical the UK gets its finances right and doesn't depend on borrowing and that is clearly something we cannot do within the EU. The EU has clearly been an utter disaster for the UK it really doesn't matter where we point the blame its just a priority to work towards a solution and no one has come up with a scenario where that could be achieved while still remaining in the EU. Anyway we are out of the EU now and I think in a few years the benefits will be clearly seen.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

I'm sure someone will be along soon to explain the pros.


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Oh oh oh - I've got one, I've got one!
- being able to negotiate a better trade deal with other countries than the EU can.

Yeah, I'm sure that's an easy one.

There are a huge number of pros to leaving the EU but those pros are more about our actual economy rather than the convenience of consumers.

I'm pretty sure I've already listed a huge number in this thread so why people just play deaf and pretend to themselves there are no positives is actually quite strange but again continuing on our previous path of building up more and more debts was not sustainable in the EU. When a person is bankrupt with no assets you don't just keep borrowing you have to get out of that situation.

It's a no win scenario though at least in the short term but at least in the long term leaving the EU should bear fruit.

This thread sadly has become quite childish with people who seem to have little understanding of the financial issues of this country and the horrific levels of debt it seems to have been reduced to people just complaining about their petty inconveniences with moronic sarcasm.

 

[egroover]

Clearly the thread is turning into another Brexshit discussion, the same we've all been having for the last 3 years.

What I'm seeing now as a fact is I can't get the bike bits I want from the EU, so will have to pay much more £££ from UK sellers (if even available)

When I start seeing new hospitals being built every week, and more cash in my pocket, and British businesses flourishing and all the other stuff Boris and Farage and their cronies promised, then I'll start believing it. I won't hold my breath...

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I see one of the biggest issues, for me anyway, is not the fact that we may pay a little more for goods from the EU. Hell, the electric bike hobby has never been cheap full stop.

It's the fact that now, once speedy deliveries from the EU on spares, will be much slower. It doesn't help that we are in the middle of a pandemic either. If something goes pop on my mid drive motor, then it's likely to be out of action for longer than usual. I probably won't be able to rely on an EU eBay seller to get the part to me so quickly (3 days from Germany with my usual vendor)

Of course, most people buy their spares from Chinese sellers, but it's still nice to have a broader choice of vendors to choose from.

Once businesses get their heads round the red tape and Covid is all but eradicated, then hopefully the situation will improve.

I projected that Covid will be here for at least 6 years*, this projection was formed early and I don't see any reason why it needs to change... because many people won't opt to be vaccinated, and at least 80% of the UK population need to be vaccinated before Covid can be eradicated. At least 35% say they never will consent. The virus has mutated because presently it's killing human hosts, which isn't ideal for it's long-term existence - in bats, pangolins and snakes, it's evolved over many years to co-exist without causing premature death. Becoming more infectious increases the odds of a useful mutation occurring, and this is nature's solution not some sort of virus consciousness. We (and our hunter-gatherer ancestors, for a wide variety of crops) exploited nature's gift of random mutation to create broccoli, new cauliflower types etc. by planting vast fields of mustard seeds, looking for useful variations and reseeding fields with those, over and over again, until we found new vegetables with useful traits (such as deep purple anti-oxidant rich spiral cauliflowers). All of the broccolis and cauliflower varieties stem from wild mustard seeds. And even after this set of Covid strains has been eradicated, it will continue to evolve and also be brought into the country to start all over again, from small numbers just as before - the current vaccines have a "Shelf life" of only 5 years - because after that, the virus will mutate to such an extent that they're useless and we'll need new vaccines for the next, largely unpredictable variations. The good news is that the virus is highly likely to keep mutating to less deadly forms, for the evolutionary advantages in doing so, but it will take many years for it to become almost totally harmless. The virus which leads to AIDS (another virus unaccustomed to human habitation) for example, now takes 12 years to tend towards causing a certainty of death, it used to take 10. On the other hand, the virus hasn't been challenged until recently by vaccines - it suddenly has reason to evolve far more rapidly than before. It's a race against time to ensure it's killed before it evolves further. There's so much beyond our control, but we can get and keep fit. It's a good job ebikes exist, so that even old codgers like me can get fit or die with Covid-19/20/21/other. We don't want all of our workers getting ill, incubating novel & frightening Coronavirus mutations, or dying en route to work, through shared use of large Covid-filled metal boxes on wheels. The government needs to prioritise supplies of ebikes and ebike kits and parts ASAP! Protecting workers while they're at work, is a whole other ballgame...

* I'd love to be completely wrong about this

 

[flecc]

Don't quite understand your point I've said all along we haven't competed in the EU well and the extra burden of tax and payments to the EU adds to the pain so how exactly is it utter nonsense when you are repeating my own viewpoint. The issue is how you deal with the situation, do you just stay in the EU and keep borrowing more and more money?

The utter nonsense is your insistence that the EU has caused our problems, and it's obvious to me that you are too young to know the whole situation well enough.

I'm not too young and watched appalled throughout the 1950s and '60s as all our industries, bicycle, motorcycle, car, truck and bus, shipbuilding and much of our aircraft industry disappeared. With our earnings vanishing by the early 1970s we were on the verge of bankruptcy and called in the IMF to run the economy for us since our governments then, both Tory and Labour, didn't have a clue how to get out of the situation.

That was when we joined the EEC in 1972, after we'd almost totally lost all our previous major manufacturing and had started making things even worse by losing our commerce too, such as shipping for the world with British crewed, British ships under the British flag, all gone those decades ago to the rest of the world. None of these losses were due to the EU which wasn't even formed into the present EU from the former EEC until 1993.

The IMF gradually steered us back into a fiscally sustainable situation, passing control back to our government from the late 1970s and the discovery of North Sea Oil kept us afloat short term, but that of course wouldn't last so we needed more.

Fortunately our EEC membership made us a tariff free entrance to the EU market area, so with large EU grants and our own government grants we were able to import manufacturing by foreign firms anxious to supply the EU, the first big notable entry being Nissan at Sunderland, followed by many others. This all made us viable, supplemented by supply of services mainly to the EU countries and the remains of North Sea Oil.

There were several reasons why we failed so badly between 1945 and the 1970s before we joined the EU. At first repayment of our war debts didn't help since everything we made went that way for many years so we had little income. More serious was the total loss of our huge British Empire and its captive market for our goods. Others like the Japanese and later Germany, these days China et al, taking it with cheaper and often better goods once we couldn't force our second class stuff onto them. Third was our total failure to adequately exploit the few things we did do well, such as invention and innovation, letting others benefit from them instead.

Our failures were all pre EU and almost all pre EEC, and are still present and entirely our own fault. That is why I take such a gloomy view of our prospects now we've left the EU and with that lost our all important services market which has been dominating our exports in recent decades. And not only that loss. Honda, a large part of Nissan and Ford Bridgend going too, now we've left the EU, and more to follow.

All for sovereignty which isn't worth a penny and contains no calories to sustain us.
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[Woosh]

Third was our total failure to adequately exploit the few things we did do well, such as invention and innovation. letting others benefit from them instead.

invention and innovation need a wide/polyvalent industrial base to prosper.
Once that base has gone, we are left with pencils and paper, we can continue to put ideas onto paper but not into large scale production. So products can't be refined and we lose rapidly the advantage of early ideas.
I give you Sinclair ZX80 as an example.

 

[egroover]

Hopefully one day they'll have us back...

 

[flecc]

invention and innovation need a wide/polyvalent industrial base to prosper.
Once that base has gone, we are left with pencils and paper, we can continue to put ideas onto paper but not into large scale production. So products can't be refined and we lose rapidly the advantage of early ideas.
I give you Sinclair ZX80 as an example.

That's exactly what I meant about failure to exploit, and the examples are numerous, from hovercraft to wind turbines.

We chose many wrong courses to create our comprehensive failure, none due to the EU.
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[Amoto65]

At least 35% say they never will consent.

Let us hope the

I projected that Covid will be here for at least 6 years*, this projection was formed early and I don't see any reason why it needs to change... because many people won't opt to be vaccinated, and at least 80% of the UK population need to be vaccinated before Covid can be eradicated. At least 35% say they never will consent.

Good that means I will get mine earlier....

 

[flecc]

Anyway its critical the UK gets its finances right and doesn't depend on borrowing and that is clearly something we cannot do within the EU. The EU has clearly been an utter disaster for the UK it really doesn't matter where we point the blame its just a priority to work towards a solution and no one has come up with a scenario where that could be achieved while still remaining in the EU. Anyway we are out of the EU now and I think in a few years the benefits will be clearly seen.

I'm answering this separately since it is a separate issue, as I've shown of our own making.

The answer isn't a simple single one of course but there is a single fundamental. We need to stop trying to blame anyone but ourselves for our misfortune and accept our responsibilities.

First we must stop trying to pretend we are a top table great world power, we are not, we are a failure. That means we stop spending vast sums on nuclear weapons, multi billion pound aircraft carriers, one hundred million pound each aircraft and fleets of assault ships, all to attack foreign lands at immense ongoing cost and nothing whatsover to do with our defence. Very few of the world's 300 main countries do that and that includes many of the very successful ones like Germany within the EU.

Than having cut our more wanton wasteful expenditure we have to build a more reasonable economy with sustainable low cost housing, permitting lower incomes still with acceptable living standards. This will lower our costs in the interest of both more export success and and producing what we need for ourselves instead of importing so much, including labour.

From there it's up to our own effort and will to succeed. No-one else will volunteer to help us and I see the hopes of a US or Australian deals as no more than wishful thinking. They will look after themselves just as we should.
.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I give you Sinclair ZX80 as an example.

And ARM, which is increasingly everywhere now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

 

[Woosh]

And ARM, which is increasingly everywhere now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

that reminds me of the Acorn Archimedes.
The 8MHz RISC chip was fast enough to play 'Elite' then, 1987. It was world beating.
We were so enthusiastic about the new 32-bit instruction set! You could create your own instruction code if you like. That was a first.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

that reminds me of the Acorn Archimedes.
The 8MHz RISC chip was fast enough to play 'Elite' then, 1987. It was world beating.
We were so enthusiastic about the new 32-bit instruction set! You could create your own instruction code if you like. That was a first.

That entire era was wonderful for Computer Science education - these days no general purpose computer gets shipped with a programming language as easy to understand and get started with, as BASIC was. Assembly and machine code were also accessible... it's what spawned the many geeks who have enherited the earth. These days it's all Java and Javascript in schools, which doesn't provide enough instant, easy gratification to keep youngsters interested IMHO. Making something happen so fast in BASIC would give you the addictive dopamine hit to the brain to make you geek forever.

 

[PP100]

UK Shipping Notice

Leather Saddles, Cycle Bags, Etc.

www.brooksengland.com

 

[Wicky]

View attachment 40050

UK Shipping Notice

Leather Saddles, Cycle Bags, Etc.

www.brooksengland.com

Similar cases highlighted here

EU firms refuse UK deliveries over Brexit tax changes

Some EU specialist firms stop delivering to the UK because of tax changes that took effect on 1 January.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Fordulike]

View attachment 40050

UK Shipping Notice

Leather Saddles, Cycle Bags, Etc.

www.brooksengland.com

Deary me, I can see this type of disruption from many companies, going on for quite some time