Price impact of the "deal"?

Now uninhibited, are we poised for a massive and imminent drop in the retail cost to purchase imported e bikes?

 

Please just the asked question, not the politics either way.

I doubt it especially with the shortage of products available at the moment, I suppose the best people to answer this question are Wisper, Woosh etc.

To answer the question, one can't avoid politics because that's the basis of the question, otherwise you should have done a poll with yes or no answers.

 

Brexit won't have any affect on the prices unless the politicians have been compromised by China, which some of them probably have been, going by what's been found in the USA. What will have more impact on prices in the next few years will be The Fourth Industrial Revolution, The Great Reset, Agenda 21 (now Agenda 30), Build Back Better or whatever name they want to use for the same thing. If you take what some of our world leaders are saying about all that, you won't own anything, so the cost of bikes, electric or not, will be irrelevant. The article below gives you some idea what to expect. Keep your eyes on the next Davos meeting in May for more details.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-what-it-means-and-how-to-respond/

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_Back_Better

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by vfr400

A separate topic but very closely related - a friend runs a shipping company (mainly single pallets UK to / from Europe) and he is concerned that he will have to put his costs up significantly.

The issue for him isn't deal / no-deal, it is that we are leaving the European Customs Union.

Once UK leaves the customs union (in less than a week), any shipment crossing the channel will need additional documentation as it is entering / leaving Europe - he will have to prepare this (listing the contents of each shipment) - customs authorities etc will then spend time checking the additional documentation & goods. The customer will have to pay for the extra time spent, he expects many of his regular low volume customers to simply stop shipping to/from EU due to the cost.

Larger organisations (supermarkets etc) will have 1 document that covers dozens of identical pallets on a truck, but a truck with pallets for many different customers will need a separate document for each one - lots more admin.

 

Hopefully the authorities have already thought of this and have an arrangements - but if so they haven't announced it yet.

 

Footnote: it's info not political, [mention=4809]vfr400[/mention] thanks for the links

Now uninhibited, are we poised for a massive and imminent drop in the retail cost to purchase imported e bikes?

 

Please just the asked question, not the politics either way.

 

We were all hoping that the UK end user would benefit by suppliers being able to source from China again and not be affected by the European anti dumping tariffs (unjustified IMO). Unfortunately this is not going to be the case as the UK has already decided to retain the EU imposed tariffs and maintain them at the same level.

 

We moved out of China a few years ago now so this doesn’t effect us, all our bikes are now assembled in Portugal but still using 60% Chinese and Asian made parts (as do nearly all brands). Our prices increased last year by about 10% due to the extra costs associated with building in Europe.

 

Unfortunately, even though thankfully we are not going to have to pay extra duty, the cost of the new red tape will add about €18 per bike to delivery costs. This will have to be passed on eventually to the end user. This increase however is insignificant compared to the effect that supply and demand is having on the price of parts and parts deliveries. We are seeing increases of between 5% and 15% on parts and containers out of Asia that would have cost $2000 this time last year are now being quoted at up to $8000 although I believe this will settle down again by the summer.

 

The £ began its decline in October 15 when we decided to leave the EU and although has recovered a little we are still down by about 12% on the USD, but the increases caused by the faltering £ have already filtered through and are reflected in the prices we are already paying.

 

We are waiting for the dust to settle but I suggest that increases of about 10% will start filtering through in the Spring. I would be very surprised if we were to see any price reductions.

 

Our margins have reduced since this turmoil started and our prices will have risen from £999 to at least £1,299 by the summer.

 

I should point out that this is not by any means all down to Brexit. We have simply been caught in the perfect storm of Brexit, COVID induced supply chain issues and boom in the cycle industry, European anti competition protectionism and a little bit of inflation.

 

All the best, David

Thank you all, David in particular for such a comprehensive response.

Short-term costs are mainly going to be affected by shipping charges - which have gone through the roof since last April.

Brexit won't have any affect on the prices

 

The legislation hasn't changed and as far as I'm aware, there is unlikely to be any change in import costs for ebike kits for the next 12 months, but I noticed that my ebike kit price has risen by £100 since I bought it last week. They've also added £100 to all the batteries. Companies will profiteer regardless it seems (I'm so shocked this is the case).

I thought I read that there maybe a free trade agreement with vietnam and depending on its specifics that could mean imports that are tariff free and maybe allow a reasonable amount of Chinese parts in that tariff free agreement i.e. 40% so ebikes could come in without tariffs and Vietnam is a very low cost manufacturing country being cheaper than mainland China. I guess while 40% is achievable fairly easily with conventional bikes most hub motors and battery cells are coming out of mainland China and make up a large part of the value. I suspect there will be one or two countries that end up with very favourable terms for exporting to the UK.

 

It should be pointed out a huge amount of taxes and tariffs are payed directly to the EU so outside the EU at least these taxes will be paid into our own exchequer. It may not be an obvious improvement but it is absolutely massive and important to the recovery of the UK. The payments for membership of the EU, the trading deficit with the EU and a significant amount of taxes going to the EU were huge drains on our economy plus being locked into a trading group which protects itself from imports with high tariffs when the UK had very little of the industries that were being protected meant huge additional costs for us as we were forced to buy higher cost EU goods rather than goods from the world market which were significantly cheaper. Outside the EU we can tailor policies to benefit us which in the longer term will have huge benefits.

 

Sadly we have left the EU with huge debts and very poor infrastructure and its going to be a hard slog for many decades to clear these debts and get the UK economy working well again.

 

Our niips position is 6th worst in the world now but historically only a few decades ago we ranked very highly such has been the decline of our exports and reliance on borrowing since joining the EU.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position

 

Hopefully outside the EU the UK will start being much more financially realistic rather than idealistic.

The old vat China dodge import a container and declare low value parts so little tax is paid into one eu country and then unpack individual items send high value goods on to the uk with vat apparently paid

This will be the spanner in the works now as vat will have to be paid and individual customs declaration required for each item [ for personal import]

The new route might be southern Ireland into northern Ireland then onto mainland uk

send high value goods on to the uk with vat apparently paid

 

How do they get away with this part exactly, from the EU country to the UK?

The old vat China dodge import a container and declare low value parts so little tax is paid into one eu country and then unpack individual items send high value goods on to the uk with vat apparently paid

This will be the spanner in the works now as vat will have to be paid and individual customs declaration required for each item [ for personal import]

The new route might be southern Ireland into northern Ireland then onto mainland uk

 

I’m afraid this dodge wont work in any bulk. It’s fraud and easily discovered. We recently had an HMRC spot check on a dozen random containers bought in over the last 3 years. They checked the value declared against invoices from China/Taiwan and then against payment to clear the invoices.

 

Anyone buying any of the big brands and many of the small, will still be paying the 6% duty element whether the parts land in Europe or UK, so most ebike buyers will now be paying this duty into an EU member’s exchequer, not the UK’s.

 

All the best, David

Several co we all might of used have a EU warehouse ,goods arrive in bulk into the EU country from china vat is supposed payed at the country of arrival after that repack and send on to the uk vat and duties paid as 99% are never checked the had an unfair advantage over uk suppliers

Yes but now if we buy one item from an overseas website we will now become the importer .My son in law works at one of the uk largest courier companies and cannot see how theY will ever get all the extra paper work done, and they will become more involved in the tax collection process [ thinking for personal imports not bulk or company use]

I’m afraid this dodge wont work in any bulk. It’s fraud and easily discovered. We recently had an HMRC spot check on a dozen random containers bought in over the last 3 years. They checked the value declared against invoices from China/Taiwan and then against payment to clear the invoices.

 

Anyone buying any of the big brands and many of the small, will still be paying the 6% duty element whether the parts land in Europe or UK, so most ebike buyers will now be paying this duty into an EU member’s exchequer, not the UK’s.

 

All the best, David

 

I need buy a battery and the one I want is sold from China, would I have to just pay 20% VAT + 6% Duty?

That is the big question at the moment a lot will be dependant on the declared value also delivery times appear longer now . I am adopting a wait and see or buying in the UK

PSW Power website has a note UK customers must pay duty

As the United Kingdom variant virus and officially leaves the European Community on December 31, 2020. - PSWPOWER.com

That is the big question at the moment a lot will be dependant on the declared value also delivery times appear longer now . I am adopting a wait and see or buying in the UK

 

This blasted battery bike dock of mine is only compatible with the batteries from one manufacturer/seller selling from China - I want to simply swap them over for long range journeys. These batteries are not available in the UK, sadly. Wait and see. They've taken back control of ebikes....

Now uninhibited, are we poised for a massive and imminent drop in the retail cost to purchase imported e bikes?

 

Please just the asked question, not the politics either way.

only on Chinese e-bikes because EU anti-dumping on Chinese e-bikes may be cancelled soon.

E-bikes produced in Europe won't come down in price, if anything, may even go up a little because of the extra burden on import procedures.

The unknown quantity is Chinese e-bikes assembled in the Czech Republic/Turkey/Poland. They contain 100% Chinese parts so should not be covered by the EU/UK free trade deal. Same with e-bike kits sold by Chinese companies based in Germany or batteries imported from China to the Netherlands.

PSW Power website has a note UK customers must pay duty

As the United Kingdom variant virus and officially leaves the European Community on December 31, 2020. - PSWPOWER.com

That notice was placed before the deal was agreed, so presumably it will now change again.

I doubt it will change the fact we now have to pay duty and vat as once we leave, goods crossing the border will incur uk tax

That notice was placed before the deal was agreed, so presumably it will now change again.

the EU/UK deal affect only products originating from the UK and EU only. PSW Power sell Chinese parts, they are not covered by the deal.

the EU/UK deal affect only products originating from the UK and EU only. PSW Power sell Chinese parts, they are not covered by the deal.

I stand corrected. As long as they get around to sending my kit I ordered 2.5 flipping weeks ago I'm not too fussed.

one issue that is a direct consequence of the UK leaving the single market is warranty replacement.

Goods sent back for repair or replacement to an EU country must be accompanied by various declarations and proof that duty and VAT have been paid.

If you don't have the appropriate paperwork, your replacement will be charged duty and VAT again.

The only way imported bikes will get cheaper is if there is a sustained relative rise in the value of the pound. Who knows if that would happen, because currency markets are manipulated for momentary gain and you can't safely predict a rise or fall. All speculators apcare about is movement in either direction upon which the can trade.

 

Over 90% of the worlds wealth is generated from the buying and selling of currency in order to make a profit, that's how significant curremcy speculation has become,