Preferences

[Carl]

Just wondering a few factors you would find important on a bike. I just want to guage what people want in their electric bike.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

On a folding bike;
What wheel size would you prefer? Smaller wheel (16") for ease of portability and folding and slightly lower standover height, or larger wheel (20") for more stability and a more comfortable ride at the expense of the above?
Is a catch to keep the bike together when folded important? If so, any particular type of catch you find best?


On a 26" MTB/hybrid style bike;
Do you find suspension is needed? Front forks and/or seatpost?
How many gears do you find you need and actually use? Is 6 or 7 enough?


Anything else you would find important/useful on a new electric bike? (without this turning into an impossible wishlist!) I'm just talking features and usability, not obvious things like range/power/weight etc.

Thanks

 

[flecc]

1) On a folding, 20" wheels for stability and comfort since folding electrics are really car boot bikes, too heavy to commute on trains with, so the compact 16" isn't so necessary in my view. I have a Quando II.

2) MTB, for me, no suspension at all. I don't think telescopic forks have translated successfully from motorbikes, for weight minimising reasons the cycle versions are generally unstable, unreliable and poorly damped. Seizures are common. The only problem though is that front hub motor bikes are "hard" and "jolting" over bumps without sprung forks due to the high unsprung mass, so I prefer designs to have a "drive through chain" motor or a rear hub motor, even though the weight distribution isn't so good. Sprung saddles sap pedal energy, perhaps not so important on an electric, but just a padded saddle is enough for me.

3) Gears, the minimum. The SRAM P5 hub I've fitted to my Giant Twist Lite is the perfect electric bike gear. Normal riding is all in gears 3, 4, and 5. Gear 2 is for much steeper hills only, with gear 1 for trailers on steep hills or the odd notoriously steep hill. With the standard 19 tooth hub sprocket the gears are 31" to 77", ideal for a legal speed electric, but I've upped mine with a 17 tooth hub sprocket to give 34" to 86". Of course, that conflicts with having a rear hub motor, back to compromises again!

Marathon Plus Tyres fitted as standard and used as a selling point. Punctures are a pain on electric bikes which are comparatively heavy. With an older age profile of buyers, turning them upside down and struggling with wiring harnesses and the like is very unwelcome.

Off you go to the drawing board!

 

[rsscott]

Folder - I'd go for 20" again for the stability and comfort. To go truly portable is best left to the Brompton crowd especially with the kind of journeys they are used for.

MTB - my previous electric bike (Cyclone) was MTB style with front and rear suspension. While it was heavy (and obviously using cheap components), I actually found it quite comfortable on the road and it soaked up the bumps really well albeit for a slight sacrifice in performance. In comparison my Torq is very fast but much less comfortable especially over poor road surfaces.

Gears - a good range but again minimum. I find I only use 3 or so gears. Unless you are going to develop a bike using a Giant style drive ?

Marathon Plus - maybe give the option for them to be supplied if additional cost is too high.

Torque sensor - I enjoyed having this on my MTB electric bike. It meant I could just settle back on a long ride and not have to worry about a throttle (which does give major wristache after a while). To have pedelec, variable pedelec and throttle only would be good!

The option to hook up a second battery. Perhaps a smaller 'top-up' battery that could be kept in a pannier for example to provide a reserve tank on a motorcycle.

The holy grail - a reliable remaining charge meter !

An 'Off-Road' power option ;-)

 

[JohnInStockie]

Folder: something that comes with its own bag/case that you can quickly hop off and fold, place into its bag and carry onto the train/bus/put in boot. It must have lights and mudgaurds/fenders.

I wont say MTB cos I imagine an MTB to be an off road bike so...

Commuting Bike:

• A REALLY good lock (these bikes are expensive!!!)
• Really Really Good lights (very important) that run off the battery.
• Horns (quiet for peds, loud for cars).
• Puncture-proof tyres (I NEVER EVER EVER want one).
• Good hill climbing and an 'unrestricted' option (strictly for off road use of course ).
• 2 batteries as standard!
• A Mirror (still trying to find a decent one of these).
• LOTS of reflectives and leds (e.g. Ive put on some movement sensitive led lights on my spokes)
• Cycle Computer.
• Indicators, wide ones at the end of the rack (to save sticking your arm out and to make you more visible!)
• A switchable on and off 'sound' from the bike so that the peds and cars can hear a whirr or a whistle or something to make them be aware of you as you whip up the inside of them in congested queuing traffic.
• And it must be light weight too (for carrying over the Sty's they have put on all the off road cycle paths around here - cycling is only for pleasure then!!! )

John

 

[Carl]

Some good ideas and feedback there
Puncture proof tyres look like they are certainly worth looking into.
I asked about an off-road power switch! It seems that a motor to enable a decent speed over 15 needs quite an upgrade over a standard one, so drawing a significant amount of extra power. So not likely really.
Extra/2nd battery.....in progress!
Light weight will be a major factor.

 

[allotmenteer]

I'd like to see a rear hub motor kit designed to fit perfectly in a 135mm dropout and also able to accept a 8-9 speed freehub casette. Does anyone know if there is one of these on the market?

 

[flecc]

I think you'll find the Heinzmann does this, from Kinetics.

 

[allotmenteer]

I've looked at the Heinzmann motors. Quality German engineering I am led to believe. They are meant to be quite heavy though and are brushed and thus somewhat less efficient than brushless (is that correct?). They do have a wide range of motors but are a bit expensive. The website says they accept screw on freewheels which limits you to 7 speeds (though I believe you can get 8 speed screw types - don't know where but have read it somewhere).

The reason I want to have 9 speeds is that I want a rear motor that will plug-and-play on my existing marin mtb which is high spec and nice and light. I know I could just go for a front hub motor but it seems safer to me to have a powerful motor at the rear. I imagine front forks were not designed to deal with the forces generated by a hub motor.

The Heinzmann system also doesn't have a lithium option. It seems to me lithium is the way to go. Lithium is expensive I know but hopefully the prices will come down over the next year or so.

 

[flecc]

Yes, seven speed is the limit on both Shimano and SRAM freewheels, and I wouldn't look at anything unbranded. Brushed motors are generally a little less efficient than Hall effect and the like, affecting the range rather than the performance.

I'm not totally sold on lithium yet. They're still nowhere near developed to the reliability of NiMh, and for some the gain in real world terms is sometimes very small. I've got both the lithium and NiMh batteries for use in either the Torq or Quando, and the range difference isn't worth talking about on my hilly terrain. One of my two lithiums is performing poorly all the time, and the second one isn't too clever now in the current cold weather. Meanwhile the NiMh one just does it's job without any problems, in the same way my Giant Twist ones have done for four years. I've just re-celled the slightly weaker of the Twist's two NiMh and the cells I've removed, although having raised internal resistance reducing capacity are absolutely even in voltages across all twenty, as good as any new stock in that respect. I doubt if any of today's lithiums will be running to anything like four years, or be as good at the end of it. They'll get better eventually.

For people in flatter areas it's much easier, the lithiums are definitely better for range then, so a good choice for them in that respect.

 

[MaryinScotland]

I know I could just go for a front hub motor but it seems safer to me to have a powerful motor at the rear. I imagine front forks were not designed to deal with the forces generated by a hub motor.

Just for reference, I used to have a Heinzmann front hub motor (the road-legal 200W one). The instructions for fitting said that normal front forks would need to be spread wider (I think by about 4 mm) to accommodate the motor, and you were warned not to try this with suspension forks. My bike was a steel-framed Dawes Street Sharp. I got the local bike shop to do the fitting, and the bike coped perfectly well, but I agree that anything other than steel forks might require a re-think.

I did find that the combination of a driven front wheel and a pedalled back wheel worked well for my purposes.

Mary

 

[PeterE]

There is no difficulty fitting a Heinzmann front hub to a suspension MTB providing the suspension unit is one that will take a disc brake. Bit of filing involved and the disc brake fitting is used for the reaction arm.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Has anybody mentioned a stand? A typical bike prop stand may not cope with motor weight. It's nice to be able to stand the bike up and know it won't fall over.
Mary

 

[Carl]

Has anybody mentioned a stand? A typical bike prop stand may not cope with motor weight. It's nice to be able to stand the bike up and know it won't fall over.
Mary

All our PowaCycles come with one as standard anyway!

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

My ideal specification?

I wont write the book - my needs are quite simple
A Torq that will climb hills (up 1 in 7, like 50 cycles quote, "with ease" and the Directors are not weightless being 6ft plus).
Allow for a bit of luggage (some shopping).
We are stuck with:
1. The law regarding road speed.
2. The current level of battery technology (no pun intended).
but surely we are not stuck with one gear for all situations.
Add the optimum characteristics together -Power/Weight/Speed/Range/Gradient and you've got an impossible mix that the year 2050 might solve.

Peter

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Add the optimum characteristics together -Power/Weight/Speed/Range/Gradient and you've got an impossible mix that the year 2050 might solve.

Or the years 2001 - 2006 (the duration that the classic Giant/Lafree Twist was produced and sold)

 

[AlbertoC67]

A good e-bike

Hello to everybody,
for me the best e-bike for an urban biker like me must be:
1) lightweigt, max 16-18 Kgs in total: sometimes it's necessary to jump fast on sidewalk because of big trucks in small road
2) reliable, working well under rain, puncture proof tires, no failures due to the shocks an use can create.
3) comfortable, I remember how good I felt when I drove a Flyer T8 just a little bit at VEL EXPO' 2006 in Switzerland... the queen of bikes!
I felt like I was sat on a sofa... chain like to be made in rubber... no metallic sound... saddle with suspension... wonderful.
If anybody wants I can post my impressions of that fair... give me just a little while to translate from italian to english.
4) With a good traction system I can regulate between pedelec to E-bike.
5) a great uphill push like Heinzmann estelle but not that ugly.
6) 15 kms of battery range in max push.
7)... ... with the possibility to modificate to increase power...ssshhh..

I think the only way is to buy a good sportbike (10 kgs) and start to modificate it adding everithing an urban biker needs.
At the end adding a good traction system.
After all you can obtain an expensive but good vehicle of about 16-18 Kgs.
Bye

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I think the only way is to buy a good sportbike (10 kgs) and start to modificate it adding everithing an urban biker needs.
At the end adding a good traction system.
After all you can obtain an expensive but good vehicle of about 16-18 Kgs.

If it was that easy to come up with the ideal electric bike, I think you'd find that the major manufacturers would have done this. The only one I can think of that's even remotely close is the Giant Revive Electric but that still differs alot from the conventional unpowered version. The Giant Twist was a completely original design in that they don't have an unpowered version that's similar. I think that the best traction system would be one that fully integrates with the bikes gearing for good hill climbing and optimum efficiency. This isn't easy to accomplish from a home design point of view and if you check out details of the Swizzbee rear hub for example, you can see just how much thought has gone into this area, let alone other aspects like security.

 

[flecc]

Yes Alberto, that's everybody's dream list you have there. A good looking bike that's light, with high performance and long range. No too expensive would be good too.

If only the laws of physics hadn't been made so awkward.

 

[AlbertoC67]

A light bike

Hi Guys,
I know that not always the dreams come true but, for example, now I already have a MTB modified into a city bike and its total weight is about 13 Kgs.
If I add a sistem like Bionx 250 the weight increases of 7 kgs.
The total is 20 Kg and the bike frame is not Aluminium made.
I know it's difficult but I want to try.
Bye

 

[flecc]

Good for you Alberto, that's the spirit. Please let us know your progress and the results.

Bikes of that weight are possible since there are already a very few that are around 20 kilos, and I still think a good 24 volt system alloy bike could get well below 20 kilos if designers really set their minds to it and stayed focussed.