Pre-Purchase advice. (Help me making a major mistake) - About to buy it!!!

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,381
16,877
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
AHH no idea what the true capacity of the battery is and Evans don't answer the phone man
battery is the most expensive component in any e-bike after a crank drive motor so it's not hard to see why cheaper e-bikes have a smaller battery capacity. Typically, if you ride a bike at 15mph in perfect weather condition (no headwind, no rain), the total energy required is 200W. Manufacturers estimate that the average rider can put in 100W, the bike will put in the difference, 100W. Over 1 hour, that translates into 100WH for 15 miles or 6WH per mile. I usually estimate double that, 12WH per mile to be more realistic as people may ride in adverse conditions, big hills, headwinds etc. For your commute, you'll need 36V 13AH at a minimum if you don't want to charge up every day at work.

One common theme among questions asked by newbies is how to derestrict a bike and/or add a throttle. No manufacturer will want their bikes derestricted, so the short answer is build your own bike.
Most cycle to work schemes will let you use your voucher to buy a kit.
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,862
1,346
My daily commute is 14 miles, I had a single speed belt drive E-Bike, had no issues.

I believe you need around 18 working amp hours per mile, eg 36volt 13ah battery= 36x13=468 wah

468/18=26 miles

Lots of things alter this, but I find its a fairly realistic calculation of what the range really is as "upto 30Km" often means 15Km with max assist on a flat road.

I hope this information helps..

Its possibly totally wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me..
Your 'working amp hours' are actually watt-hours, written Wh. But correctly calculated as nominal voltage times amp-hours.

Hills make a huge difference, but 18Wh per mile in most cases for bike plus rider and not much luggage should be fine. I like to have 20% margin on top, for confidence in the early days, and allowing for battery aging, which reduces capacity.
 

ameeno

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 11, 2022
14
0
Thanks. This is all very useful.

I am not sure I have somewhere at work to take an entire bike in to charge, so not having a detachable battery is a big pain. Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series? I'm not too bad with electricals and DIY, or cycle maintanence. I have just never worked on an e bike before (tho do all my own car maintanence and home electrics and Techy stuff).


I guess I would need to do more research once I have specific components. But in theory, if I'm gonna think about all that, am I just better off buying a non elec + kit??? Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand, and the used market isn't worth it as no cycle to work scheme!!!
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,381
16,877
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand,
just ask around, and your colleagues at work. I am pretty sure that by the time one reaches the middle age, one has at least 5 old bikes languishing in one's shed. There is also gumtree. Budget about £200 for a good donor bike. There are also plenty of charities that give bikes away, free of charge. My local tip has plenty of bikes for a few pounds. You can start with one of them and when you gain experience, move your kit to a better bike.
 

TripHazard

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 5, 2018
22
8
51
Southampton
Thanks. This is all very useful.

I am not sure I have somewhere at work to take an entire bike in to charge, so not having a detachable battery is a big pain. Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series? I'm not too bad with electricals and DIY, or cycle maintanence. I have just never worked on an e bike before (tho do all my own car maintanence and home electrics and Techy stuff).


I guess I would need to do more research once I have specific components. But in theory, if I'm gonna think about all that, am I just better off buying a non elec + kit??? Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand, and the used market isn't worth it as no cycle to work scheme!!!
The market is flooded with £800 bikes for less than 200 due to people buying bikes during COVID and never using them. I picked up 2 second hand bike to convert for £350 with a new value of £1200. Conversion cost me £570 and I have a bike with a range of 80 miles+ that pulls really well and ride like a normal bike when needed.. Shop bought E bikes are far more expensive with far inferior components. Whoosh sell conversion kits you can use cycle to work scheme vouchers with and I'm sure If I can fine almost new bikes for £150 anyone can.

Bike in the pic cost £200.. +£570 for motor and battery (Its a 20AH Battery)
 

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sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,835
2,758
Winchester
Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series?
Asking that indicates your aren't too sure on electrics; if you could add a second battery it would need to be in parallel. And, as others have already said, adding a second battery in parallel needs a lot of care, and is dangerous (risk of battery fire) if you get it wrong.

I'm afraid you've just got to admit to yourself that the Muddy Fox is not for your commute.
A conversion of a good 2nd hand bike looks appropriate, but of course you won't get any cycle to work scheme help on the 2nd hand bike.

p.s. just noticed a typo in an earlier post of mine, too late to edit.
They don't specify battery size, but guessing from the charging time probably 6 to 7ah, around 200-250wh
I wrongly typed around 200-300wh
Around half what we have suggested you need, 400wh to 500wh.
 

Waspy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 8, 2012
433
171
26" wheeled mountain bikes are totally out of fashion now and nobody wants them.

On Gumtree you can pay between £50 for a rust bucket or £150 for really nice one.

You sound like you are handy with tools, think about a kit.

My one tip would be to buy a Crank extractor tool from Park Tool, cheap ones can strip your threads (don't ask how I know this), also watch RJ The Bike Guy on Youtube, OK that's two tips.

This is my 26" Trek 4300 (£120 from Gumtree) fitted with a Woosh kit with a 13ah battery for £535. (chance to post bragging pics)....also, Woosh answer their phone!

 
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Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
805
464
I personally think the Muddyfox is a good cheap ebike purely because its so basic and keeps everything simple. It has 3 assist levels and should be easy to maintain. The big issue is range and how heavy you are and how much assistance you can provide to the ebike for hills. You could buy it and be more than happy with the assistance level of the motor or you could find it is not enough for you because of lack of gears. It's an ebike so will be desirable to thieves even a cheap one like this, will it be secure where you work? Can you charge it at work? If you can charge it at work I don't see a problem myself but if you can't then you will be probably limited to the minimum assistance level.

As a day to day commuting bike with no gears to adjust or think about I think its a great option. Seems a near perfect commuting bike for a bike you want to use frequently but not have to spend time maintaining it. If you are competent with a soldering iron I'm sure you could work out how to use another 36V battery with it. You can get cheap hoverboard type batteries from aliexpress of similar capacity probably to the battery supplied. It's a geared hub motor so even when the battery runs out it will still freewheel well and its no the end of the world to have to walk up a hill occasionally if you misjudge battery capacity.

No suspension, no gears, thick tyres, easy to ride seems a good option to me especially if after tax deduction you are getting it less than £400 in real terms.

It will provide about 45Nm of torque in full power mode. If you are struggling with the bikes gearing you could lower it, either a smaller chainring on the front or larger freewheel on the back. These are cheap options to lower the gearing to make hills easier so you can provide more assistance to the motor for steeper hills. You won't even have to turn the motor on for downhill.

Seems an absolute bargain to me. It's very similar to the Argos single speed ebike. So that might help getting a better picture of the product.

 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,835
2,758
Winchester

ameeno

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 11, 2022
14
0
Thanks for all the tips. I decided not to buy this and instead buy something better for a bitt more
 

ameeno

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 11, 2022
14
0
The market is flooded with £800 bikes for less than 200 due to people buying bikes during COVID and never using them. I picked up 2 second hand bike to convert for £350 with a new value of £1200. Conversion cost me £570 and I have a bike with a range of 80 miles+ that pulls really well and ride like a normal bike when needed.. Shop bought E bikes are far more expensive with far inferior components. Whoosh sell conversion kits you can use cycle to work scheme vouchers with and I'm sure If I can fine almost new bikes for £150 anyone can.

Bike in the pic cost £200.. +£570 for motor and battery (Its a 20AH Battery)

You, friend have given brilliant advice. might look into a kit from woosh + an underpriced gumtree donor. this sounds very sensible.
 

ameeno

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 11, 2022
14
0
26" wheeled mountain bikes are totally out of fashion now and nobody wants them.

On Gumtree you can pay between £50 for a rust bucket or £150 for really nice one.

You sound like you are handy with tools, think about a kit.

My one tip would be to buy a Crank extractor tool from Park Tool, cheap ones can strip your threads (don't ask how I know this), also watch RJ The Bike Guy on Youtube, OK that's two tips.

This is my 26" Trek 4300 (£120 from Gumtree) fitted with a Woosh kit with a 13ah battery for £535. (chance to post bragging pics)....also, Woosh answer their phone!

and you too. good tips
 

Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
2,050
910
Plymouth
Don't be afraid of conversion. Installing a front hub motor is as easy as changing wheel and attaching battery to bike. Yes, it will take time and will cost some money, but in return you will get total control over your bike, components and maintenance.
Bike is an investment for years. Take that into account. Buying cheap now will be more expensive in long run.
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
805
464
The Argos one has only a 5.2ah battery (approx 187wh) so even smaller than our guess on the Muddy Fox. At least it does admit to it in the specs. A typically absurd '21.75 miles per full charge'.
I sort of suspect they could be the same. I think its about the same as some of the Swytch kits. For a sub 10 mile commute where you can charge inbetween trips I don't see a problem with the capacity, it keeps the bike relatively light and nimble. Also if you need a second battery you can go with one of those hoverboard type batteries which are similar capacity and could be mounted in a saddle bag easily. A good one of those could be got for about £35 delivered from aliexpress, a bad one perhaps £20.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,835
2,758
Winchester
For a sub 10 mile commute where you can charge inbetween trips I don't see a problem with the capacity
I think OP's commute is 10 miles each way, with no chance to charge at work.
 

lightning

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 26, 2022
263
73
l've got a Mirider 1 and it's superb, but expensive at £1500

l've looked at (and ridden) cheaper alternatives and many aren't that great. But the Woosh Rambletta looks great at £995.

l've nothing to do with either company (Mirider or Woosh) but just going off my own research.