Power source of the future?

Hurricane

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Jan 31, 2010
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Well spotted Indalo. I wonder if it will work in FM as well as MW.
 

neptune

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That was a most interesting article . Probably even more relevent and interesting is the article about "Jelly Batteries " see link at the end of the first story . We are promised yet another new generation of lithium batteries with a longer life and costing10 to 20 percent of current prices . Interesting , but just one of many new Lithium batteries that are allegedly working in the laboratory . The question is , shall we live long enough to buy them .
So back to the original article . I have a background in radio , I used to teach radio theory to budding Radio Amateurs , and am a qualified radio Amateur myself . Problem number one . Think of the sun , and the amount of energy given off by it . Direct sunlight has an energy density around 1.4 Killowatts per square meter .So a 100% efficient solar panel one meter square , could run 7 electric bikes with 200 watt motors . Sadly , the best solar panels have an efficiency of around 20 % , and 12 % is probably more realistic . Now let us think about energy available from medium radio waves . This is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the transmitter . Double your distance from the transmitter , and the power falls to one eighth . In Berlin during world war two , there were often power cuts . But the powerful Nazi propaganda transmitters never shut down , they had stand by generators . Some people discovered that if you built a crystal radio , a simple receiver that does not use batteries , you could use it to power a small torch bulb , if you lived closer than 1 Kilometer to the transmitter . I hate to tell you what happened if you were caught . Transmitter power was measured in Kilowatts . As from 2015 , all radio broadcasting in the UK will be on Digital Radio . The powers that be have new plans for the AM and FM bands , so these guys better be quick . I forgot to mention that to light a torch bulb you would probably need an aerial 100 meters long and 10 meters high .Notice that in the article , they have yet to build a working prototype . Dont scrap those batteries just yet . The other problem , is that to light your torch bulb your receiver has to be exactly tuned to one transmitter . To extract power from all the transmitters available at your location , you would need a separate receiver for each transmitter . In the original article , they talk about powering clocks and remote controls . A clock uses so little energy that if you were to spit on a penny and place it next to a five pence piece you have made a cell that would power your clock for months . A remote uses a bit more energy , especially if like me you spend hours chanell surfing .
 
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Blew it

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Jun 8, 2008
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The thread topic is just pie-in-the-sky, the only real value is the knowledge gained by the students investigating the plausability of it.

What is of very real concern to millions of drivers, including myself, is the fact we have to replace our car radios by 2015.
 

eddieo

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Jul 7, 2008
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I have put my savings on Mini nuclear....watch this space
 

Blew it

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Mini nuclear! with you all the way on that Edd.

Naval ships, both surface and submarine have been using nuclear power for many years. There must be hundreds of retired ERA's with experience of small scale nuclear reactors out there looking for jobs.

Forget the Soviets though, they just dump them over the side when the kettle boils dry ;)
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Mini nuclear! with you all the way on that Edd.

Naval ships, both surface and submarine have been using nuclear power for many years. There must be hundreds of retired ERA's with experience of small scale nuclear reactors out there looking for jobs.

Forget the Soviets though, they just dump them over the side when the kettle boils dry ;)
Mini isn't physically possible. The ship and submarine plants are very inefficient and costly, right at the limit of the possible, only viable for the military and ice breaking where the need justifies it, but not commercial. Due the physics of our universe, the minimum reactor vessel dimensions for efficiency are 12' x 12' x 12', slightly too large for a bike!

As for the unit's disposal, I've no doubt the Russians do little different from the USA. They don't decommission, they just bury spent complete ship/submarine plants at a site just west of the Rocky Mountains. Apparently future generations can just sort that out.
 

bode

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May 14, 2008
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A clock uses so little energy that if you were to spit on a penny and place it next to a five pence piece you have made a cell that would power your clock for months.
Yes, I have a Casio travel alarm clock that I bought in 1994; still in daily use and still on the original tiny "hearing aid"-type battery.
 

neptune

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I am sometimes amazed at how little people seem to know about what is really going on in the world of energy . Nuclear is now stone age technology , and is about to be superseded big style . Have we forgotten Chernobyl and Fukushima already ? The future is Cold Fusion , also called LNER . Google Andre Rossi and E-cat . This guy has a reactor not much bigger than a D cell that produces 10 Kw of heat . It runs on tiny amounts of Nickel and hydrogen . It is refuelled twice yearly at a cost os £10 by a screw in cartridge . The domestic model , costing $600 to $ 800 dollars , acts a central heating boiler . Orders are being taken for deliveries in spring 2013 .I have already ordered mine . There is also a commercial 1 Megawatt model available . The USA government has 13 on order . Why on earth would we want to go back to the stone age ? Cold fusion has been replicated hundreds of times in labs throughout the world , and was recently endorsed by NASA. Rossi already has competition from a Greek company called Defkalion to name one of many .Several countries have now said no more nukes , including Germany . How has the UK government responded ? By ordering 12 new nukes . Hopefully they will just get the sheds built in time to install Cold Fusion reactors .
 

neptune

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Morning Flecc .NASA would beg to differ . If you are really interested I will try to find a link . The Massachusets Institute of technology [MIT] recently ran a course lasting one week as an introduction to cold fusion . This course included a demonstration of cold fusion giving excess energy . Interestingly it was MIT who dismissed the original work of Pons and Fleishman 20 years ago .The thing that has kept it hidden all these years is the big boys with their massive budgets persuing hot fusion research . If you was on a salary to match a top banker , and a couple of guys said they could do what you are trying to achieve in a jam jar on the kitchen table , wouldn`t you try to discredit them ?
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Don't worry about the links Neptune, I've already kept myself up to date on this subject. Rossi is a con-man in my opinion, and it's amazing how he's kept this myth running for so long. NASA will go along with anything that helps to continue it's congressional funding which is always under threat, remember Reagan's "Star Wars" nonsense which NASA supported. And as for Defkalion, I don't see Greece as a hotbed for technology, more as an economically failed nation currently.

The "demonstrations" of surplus energy are too small scale to be of value, ranking with the recent report of "speed in excess of the speed of light". Both measured effects are well below the onset of measurement inaccuracy.

There are no "big boys pursuing hot fusion", it's a governments funded only area and they have nothing to gain by it and everything to gain politically with cold fusion which they would love if it were possible.

If 10 kW of heat is being produced from around D cell size, what materials are being used in it's construction? I bet Rossi can't/won't answer that!

And 1 megaWatt reactors available now? I repeat, pure bunkum. I'm sorry you won't be getting your domestic reactor in 2013, so best keep your present energy systems in place.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
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honestly what doubting thomases:p

Its nuclear nano technology I'm talking about:confused:

battery life 100 years (-50% capacity) and 0 to 60 in 1 second (number plate and insurance required for some of you;))

here is a taster but my lips are sealed in case wisper get hold of it

http://www.tahan.com/charlie/nanosociety/course201/nanos/MPnuke.pdf
 

neptune

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One of the problems we have in life is that we all have to base our beliefs on what we are told . And naturally the mainstream media have their own agendas . In an age of information technology , we are bombarded with often conflicting information , and we have to make of it what we will . How come that you could believe MIT when they said Pons and Fleishman were rubbish , but now that they are demonstrating the self same technology you cant believe them . And I cant quite see how you can dismiss Greece as a source of technology simply because they are in financial trouble . You say Rossi is a con man ? Just how is he going to make a financial gain from this , as he has done it all with his own money ? He is not seeking investment . How is he going to get rich selling something that does not work ? You like me have based your beliefs on the available information . We have drawn opposite conclusions . There are 2 possible futures for mankind . The first is the discovery of a new cheap pollution free energy source . The second is a return to the middle ages , with slaves replacing the horse , and cannibalism as the main source of protein . Me , I am an optimist .
 

flecc

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I'm also an optimist, anyone who believes in e-bikes in Britain has to be!

But I'm a realist too. The laws of this universe are not so easily defeated. The mention of MIT cuts no ice with me, I've long lost count of the number of spurious claims emanating with those initials attached, they too fantasize.

Tell me when your home cold fusion reactor has been delivered, installed and working, and then I'll believe you. As for what's in it for Rossi, he's making a healthy living from the information dissipation of this con, and when it finally expires, he'll move onto another scam no doubt.

I equate Rossi with the late Horace Batchelor who could tell anyone except himself how to win the pools for a small fee, and the business lecture gurus who can tell anyone gullible enough how to succeed in business.
 

neptune

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OK Flecc , I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one . I am confident that I shall live to see domestic cold fusion reactors . They might not have the Rossi name on them , but a rose by any other name is yet a rose . When people start talking about the Laws of the Universe , I am reminded of a meeting of the Royal Society which took place about 1890 .The then chairman proposed a motion that the Society be disbanded , on the grounds that science had already discovered everything there was to know . Correct me if I am mistaken , but I seem to think we have discovered one or two things since then ...
 

bode

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I equate Rossi with the late Horace Batchelor who could tell anyone except himself how to win the pools for a small fee
But he always used to say, "I have personally won over two million pounds" (I think that was the figure). Oh, no! Do you mean it wasn't true? Sure glad I never sent off for his Amazing Infra-Draw Method...
(I sometimes cycle or drive through Keynsham, never without a slight nostalgic twinge about what might have been.)
 

flecc

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When people start talking about the Laws of the Universe , I am reminded of a meeting of the Royal Society which took place about 1890 .The then chairman proposed a motion that the Society be disbanded , on the grounds that science had already discovered everything there was to know . Correct me if I am mistaken , but I seem to think we have discovered one or two things since then ...
That's a rather different thing of course. I don't believe for a moment that anything like everything has been discovered, my view on my own knowledge is that for every one thing I know, the number of things I don't know is nearly infinite.

But I know enough not to be caught by the likes of Rossi. This sort of subject reminds me of what Oscar Wilde once said:

"I'm not young enough to know everything".
 

neptune

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You know what ? I never bought Horace`s Infra Draw Method either . And at 66 years old , i am not young enough to know everything .But at least this discussion has given us something to do on a dismal February Sunday , when its a bit too cold for electric bike joy riding . I wonder what happened to Horace from Keynsham . Whatever else he achieved , he taught everyone to spell the name of his home town or village . You probably would not be able to hear him today due to all the energy being sucked out of the medium waveband by electric bikes , clocks , and remote controlls .
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I remember Horace's death on 8th January 1977 being announced on BBC TV news. He was very much one of a kind, in his own way quite unique.

P.S. Bet that date makes you feel old!
.
 
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