Power expectancy and Wattage.

Clavicle

Pedelecer
May 25, 2020
26
0
Hello folks.

First time posting, with a couple of basic questions, that I can't seem to find specific answers to.

I am buying an Ebike soon. My budget is 1000-1300.

Looking at Carerra Crossfire, will mainly be using this for commuting.

If using the highest mode of assist, realistically speaking, how many miles am I likely to get out of this? My Commute would be about 15 miles a day. I don 't mean eco mode, I mean the highest setting where I would get the most assist, does this burn out the battery extremely quickly? How many miles on a carrera would that be, roughly speaking.


My other question was wattage of motors. How important is this? Should I factor this in, when looking at E-bikes?

Thanks guys.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,837
2,759
Winchester
If you look at the postings here about Carerra Crossfire you'll probably quickly decide on something else. It has a very poor reliability rating. For very good bikes in that range look at http://wooshbikes.co.uk/

All legal e-bikes (to ride without insurance etc) have a max 250w nominal motor. Very few actually have less than that these days. BUT the stated power is continuous and there is a big difference between the torque and peak power of different motors. How important that is depends on your width, fitness, hilliness and several other factors.

To get an idea of range variation by assist setting and by other details see https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/ This won't give direct answer for your bike, but will give a very good idea of the variations expected, and with some interpretation a reasonable idea for any bike, Bosch driven or not. Particularly big between eco and tour, and drops quite a bit more for full turbo.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,917
8,533
61
West Sx RH
Dont' do it Crossfire isn't worth the aggro with it's unreliability.
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
Hello folks.

First time posting, with a couple of basic questions, that I can't seem to find specific answers to.

I am buying an Ebike soon. My budget is 1000-1300.

Looking at Carerra Crossfire, will mainly be using this for commuting.

If using the highest mode of assist, realistically speaking, how many miles am I likely to get out of this? My Commute would be about 15 miles a day. I don 't mean eco mode, I mean the highest setting where I would get the most assist, does this burn out the battery extremely quickly? How many miles on a carrera would that be, roughly speaking.


My other question was wattage of motors. How important is this? Should I factor this in, when looking at E-bikes?

Thanks guys.
Although I have no personal knowledge or experience with that particular bike, it appears to be one, as several have already said, to avoid like the plague (or should one say COVID-19 nowadays?)
It is sadly not alone on the e-bike market! Do not get caught out!
Furthermore, may I recommend that you also avoid all mid motor e-bikes, though some makes are worse than others of course.
There is quite a lot of data here on Pedelec, showing that clearly, also on the web, overall they are generally more expensive to purchase , get more problems than run of the mill hub bikes, are often very badly supported by the manufacturers once the guarantee is gone, and and.
If you can read German, look on the German web.....
This is a much debated "hot" subject on Pedelec, that causes heated discussions and often unnecessary rudeness from the ones who believe in them.
At the end of the day, your own extensive research on the web will serve you well.
As a good search or two on the internet, will find reams of problems with them, but you may be lucky and get a "good" one, as someone here once said to me!!
Having some mechanical and electrical knowledge is a great help with anything mechanical, with both electrical and electronic problems, and do look after your battery, the whole year round!
Regards and best wishes for whatever you decide to buy! Just make sure that its YOUR OWN DECISION in all respects, made only after much personal time on the web.
Andy
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
I suggest you speak to people who have owned them and try and get a test ride before you make your decision and that applies to both hub and mid-motor .
I have ridden them many times, but never wanted to waste my money on one as I have seen what can happen to the bikes, especially Bosch and especially once the guarantee is up!
Bosch treats its customers very badly over here in Germany, the way the various parts are coded and communicate with each other, preventing normal DIY repairs.
An owner is even prevented from measuring the voltage on a battery apparently!
When one of those bikes goes past me as I sit with the dog, on a favourite bike path, 2 out of 3 of the Bosch bikes are making untoward loud noises! Even if the rider is not pedaling (I sit at the top of a hill, so I hear both coming up and going down.
Then there are the stories from about a dozen owners, some truly hair raising!
Also, there are enough bad stories on Pedelec about mid motor bikes and their single point of failure to put anyone off, plus the web is full of such happenings!
Hub motors also help reduce other bike maintenance tasks compared to mid-drive motors. Since they don’t connect to the main pedal drive system, hub motors don’t add any extra stress to your chain or shifters, and don’t cause any of those parts to wear out more quickly. If anything, your chain will probably last longer than a non-electric bike because the hub motor will be doing more work, allowing your chain to often sit idle.
As an independent drive system, hub motors also add redundancy. Since the hub motor and the pedal drive system are completely independent, you can lose one and still get home on the other. Chain breaks while you’re hitting it hard on a trail? Toss the chain in your bag and ride home on just electric power. Hub motor somehow fails? Pedal back. Either way, you’ve got a backup. This can be huge if you’re far from home, especially for older riders or those who use e-biking as a form of rehabilitation.

Need more data about mid motor problems, search on Pedelec!
Andy
PS. Just came in, a further problem on a mid motor, due to the amounts of power going through the gear system:-
 

BazP

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 8, 2017
358
174
74
Sheffield
This is a much debated "hot" subject on Pedelec, that causes heated discussions and often unnecessary rudeness from the ones who believe in them.
Andy, I know your views on mid motors and you are well entitled to them but coming from someone who once said that anyone with a mid motor needed their head examining I find the above quote a bit condescending.
To the OP, inTurbo if it’s flat you will probably get 15 miles. If hilly it will be a lot less.
 

Amoto65

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 2, 2017
807
502
61
Cheshire
As I said before there are plenty of people who have owned Mid-motor bikes and plenty who have owned hub on here who have had no problems and some from each camp who have had problems. You are best reading reviews and posts from people who have actually owned them, personally depending on your circumstances and the terrain you wish to cover I would look at Wisper/Juicy and Woosh who do bikes with both hub and mid-motor engines and who are well regarded on this site also possibly try and get a test ride at Evans/Halfords etc to give you a bit more information on what is best for you. Good luck.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
Andy, I know your views on mid motors and you are well entitled to them but coming from someone who once said that anyone with a mid motor needed their head examining I find the above quote a bit condescending.
To the OP, inTurbo if it’s flat you will probably get 15 miles. If hilly it will be a lot less.
Andy, I know your views on mid motors and you are well entitled to them but coming from someone who once said that anyone with a mid motor needed their head examining I find the above quote a bit condescending.
To the OP, inTurbo if it’s flat you will probably get 15 miles. If hilly it will be a lot less.
The MAJOR DIFFERENCE IS, that I NEVER address someone directly, until they are rude to me first!!!!
Look back!
And if you, or anyone else, takes onboard a general comment of mine, addressed to no one personally, that sort of makes the comment tend to look far more accurate!
No smoke without fire!!
The rudeness I have received from a few here, SIMPLY DOES NOT INSPIRE SOMEONE WHO IS BEING ATTACKED, TO ANY FORM OF SILENCE!
Remember please, everyone is entitled to their own opinion!
Its a bit like politics, you may not agree, but there is never a need to get personal FIRST!
That is simply a lack of good manners if done......
I will ALWAYS try and assist a fellow Pedelecer with the truth, and mid motor bikes, until someone manages to FINALLY design one that does not put all the power from both the motor and the rider, through the same weak link, namely the chain, I will continue to point that out each and every time.
Someone, somewhere, must find a way, to achieve a mid motor design, but without that problem.
Or designing a mid motor, without the need for poor quality plastic gears inside it, that have given so many grief.
Plus on the Bosch front, they must know that they have taken money with un-serious designs, where each part is linked with a data link, so that it is as good as impossible for even a top DIYer, to repair such designs himself, batteries that make it impossible for the DIYer to even measure the SOC!
I feel that I would be failing a new member, if asked, in not bringing such a "single point of failure!" and other failures, to his/her attention.
But also being especially spurred on by the constant poor manners, poor character and rudeness, of others here.
Do not pick on any of my words in the future, pick on the person who addressed me first please.
And as I said before:-
Remember please, everyone is entitled to their own opinion!
Do not try to muzzle me with rudeness, that is the big failure the rude ones make, time after time.
Furthermore, due to the rudeness of certain members, it has become obvious to me, that certain "mid motor" fans, want to try and hide the various weaknesses of the current mid motor designs, making it even easier for certain manufacturers to continue, going against the rules, laws and concepts contained in the EU, I remember one upset Bosch owner mentioning, making Bosch illegal in some ways.....
Have I made myself clear?
Andy
 

Amoto65

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 2, 2017
807
502
61
Cheshire
Do not pick on any of my words in the future, pick on the person who addressed me first please.
Cant find any indication of anyone addressing you personally on this thread, so I am not sure why you are being so aggressive. Let alone being rude.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
2,214
562
78
Cant find any indication of anyone addressing you personally on this thread, so I am not sure why you are being so aggressive. Let alone being rude.
Maybe I explained it in a difficult to follow manner, I may need it to be more explicit, so see if this helps:- "I only pick on rude people after they have been rude to me!"

I may make general comments of my opinion, as everyone is allowed one, but it appears that certain sensitive folks believe they are being addressed, when they actually weren't!!

I then say:- "if the shoe fits then wear it!"

The decision then lies with that person!!

Got it now?

Andy
 

egroover

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 12, 2016
1,038
622
57
UK
I have a crossfire-e. In fact I have owned 2. Have used my daily on the commute to work for the past 4 years
As far as range is concerned, if you use the highest assist mode, you will get in the region of 20-30 miles per charge depending on terrain, wind, road surface, tyre pressure, rider weight. On a flattish route with little wind I can get over 50 miles range in the lowest setting Eco
Hope this helps
 
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Amoto65

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 2, 2017
807
502
61
Cheshire
I have a crossfire-e. In fact I have owned 2. Have used my daily on the commute to work for the past 4 years
As far as range is concerned, if you use the highest assist mode, you will get in the region of 20-30 miles per charge depending on terrain, wind, road surface, tyre pressure, rider weight. On a flattish route with little wind I can get over 50 miles range in the lowest setting Eco
Hope this helps
How many times have they cut out over this period?
 

egroover

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 12, 2016
1,038
622
57
UK
How many times have they cut out over this period?
Loads of times...

Ok, to quantify that, it could be no cutouts for a month then 3 in a week, there's no logic in it. I persevered as I bought both bikes new for less than 700 quid after discounts, and when it's not cutting out or the rear wheel spokes are not snapping its a great bike. I wouldn't buy one now tho, unless it was as cheap as I paid then
 

RoadieRoger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2010
726
200
Clavicle my Brother has a Woosh Santana that is 8 years old and he rides everywhere on Full Assist and still gets 25-30 miles on the original battery . I do the same Routes on my less than 2 year old machines and get about the same mileage . One is a Crank motor Pro Rider Flare and the other a Lanarkshire SR 20a Fat Tyre with a rear hub motor .
He must have stumbled on the technique for long battery life or Woosh is adding a secret ingredient to their batteries .
 

Samcycles

Pedelecer
Apr 26, 2020
68
50
Northern Ireland
Hello folks.

First time posting, with a couple of basic questions, that I can't seem to find specific answers to.

I am buying an Ebike soon. My budget is 1000-1300.

Looking at Carerra Crossfire, will mainly be using this for commuting.

If using the highest mode of assist, realistically speaking, how many miles am I likely to get out of this? My Commute would be about 15 miles a day. I don 't mean eco mode, I mean the highest setting where I would get the most assist, does this burn out the battery extremely quickly? How many miles on a carrera would that be, roughly speaking.


My other question was wattage of motors. How important is this? Should I factor this in, when looking at E-bikes?

Thanks guys.
Hi Clavicle

I have just purchased my first ebike and am waiting for it to arrive.
I started looking at ebikes in 2016 and have tested ridden a huge number & made my final decision a dozen times before changing my mind. I have personally found Pedelecs an invaluable source of information and advice on potential pitfalls and great help offered. I sat back and just read posts for years. However, I soon discovered that some people here have very strong opinions that on occasions have actually put me off bikes that I had really liked on test rides. The trick is to sort the sound advice from the personal prejudice.
Test ride as many bikes as you can and you will discover what works best for you.
I don't recommend taking as long as I did but don't be rushed into a decision by pushy sellers.
Happy hunting and welcome to the site.
 

01wellsd

Pedelecer
Apr 30, 2020
110
94
34
Bristol
When I borrowed a Carerra Crossfire from Halfords on a 48h test ride it cut out 20 miles from home.
That is a heavy bike to peddle with no assistance!
The bike had only covered 900 miles, Halfords came back saying that they had diagnosed the motor burning out.

I went with a Wisper 705se in the end. A guy in my work had one and let me borrow it for the weekend. Wisper have shown great aftersales support on this forum and that's what sold it for me.
Plenty of power to get up hills and I have managed 35 miles on a single charge using a decent amount of assistance over mixed terrain.
Woosh closely followed, but wasn't available on my Cycle 2 Work scheme!

Interestingly, I have also just bought a Pendleton Somerby E for the wife. It covered 20 miles before it lost all power to the motor. Still trying to get somebody in Halfords to answer the phone after ringing 5 times a day for the last 3 days!

I would definitely take the hint of finding the "true" advice. Every system has its strengths, weaknesses, fans and haters. I went for the hub style because it was cheaper and within budget. But I wouldn't have any objection to a mid-drive. I get that a mid drive would put a bit more strain on the chain, but in the same way that a 4x4 puts more strain on the running gear of a car. If you want/need it, go for it!
 
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