Powabyke breakdown - help sought

[Nekobus]

Hello everyone

The next three paragraphs were to have been all I intended to post...

I bought a used Powabyke Euro 6 speed SLA last December. It ended up standing for a few months, due to a change in employment, a new daughter, and difficulty keeping the battery well-enough connected to the contacts - the previous owner had resorted to cable-tying the battery to the frame (and, no, it wasn't mentioned at the time I bought it...)

Still, no matter, a tie-down and a piece of rubber created enough pressure. My first long run, earlier this week, took me to Halifax and back, approx 19 miles pedal-assisted with a steady 3.5 mile ascent on the way there, which I sailed up. The power had gone by the last mile on the way back, but given the ascent and the fact I'm the wrong side of 17 stone, I thought that was ok. I'd been worried that the batteries might be tired, but that range seems to fit with what I've read here. Does that match other people's expectations?

Yesterday, hitched up a trailer and took my elder daughter to the swimming pool - 10 mile round trip, no big climbs to speak of. Romped along, again. I'd been really happy after these two rides, the powabyke had dealt with hills and with loads, and so would be a viable replacement for the car for these short journeys, although I'd have to find some higher bars.

The but you knew was coming is now: But, today, after the 9 mile leg to Halifax during which the bike was running well, as I moved away from a standstill at traffic lights, slightly uphill, the leds went from 5/6 to off just like that, and there was no power. Increasing the pressure on the tie-down (the obvious first step with this set-up) did nothing. Neither key position lit the lights. The fuse in the battery case - my first thought - is intact. There are no obvious loose connections outside of the battery box and the hub motor. I have now run out of things to check easily. Googling and searching the forum hasn't thrown up a similar problem.

I have 3 requests/questions:
1) does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Powabyke Euro 6 speed?
2) is the battery box/"ignition" lock easy to dismantle and investigate?
3) can anyone suggest likely causes?

For extra info, my route consists of canal towpath for much of the way (obviously not the big climb I mentioned...) - this varies from asphalt to cobbles to mud with deep puddles. Is moisture and/or vibration likely to be a factor?

I'd be very grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks for reading.

Ian

 

[Blew it]

Hi Ian,

Your journey at the beginning of this week, which included a three and a half mile climb, suggests the batteries are in reasonable condition.

The methods used to keep the battery in position is far from ideal, but given that the machine continued to function, it appears that something else has become disconnected. The keyswitch cannot be dismantled, but one of the spade terminals may have shaken off from the back of it. Access to the back of the keyswitch is by separating the two halves of the plastic molding around the headstock.

I can't help with a wiring diagram, but I know a man who can.

fcurran@powabyke.com

I'm sure if you contact Frank by E-mail he will help in anyway he can to resolve your problems.

Hope this is of help
best wishes
Bob

 

[Vikki]

Hi, Ian.

I had a Euro 6 speed for about 3 years before I got the Wisper.

I found I lost all power one day and was left pedalling the bike home. It was a very heavy ride. I went through the usual things and finally ended up at the key-switch. The wires were soldered directly to the back of the key-switch (on my one there were no spade connectors) and one of them had come free breaking the power to the the electronics.

I was able to dismantle the switch and found that heat had caused one of the contact studs inside to move. I re-soldered the connection and while it was still hot was able to realign the internal stud (the stud pushed against a disc inside with tracks on it, as the key turned the disk the tracks made two connections. Put it all back together and it was fine.

The key-switch on my one wasn't a particularly robust one and didn't really seem good enough to handle the current.

Your Euro will pull more current going up hill and pulling a load than normal flat riding. It was a poor contact between stud and track that caused heat to be generated and it got hot enough the melt the solder at the other end of the stud (hence the wire came off) and to soften the plastic around the stud allowing it to move). Once I'd sorted the problem it never recurred.

As to the other question: 20 miles is all you can expect from it as well. That range will gradually reduce as the batteries get more use. I think my original Panasonic batteries lasted 14 months before I replaced them. It got to the point where the bike was just about managing 15 mile. At that point the performance drop off was brutal. Once they reach the end of their life SLAs die fast.

Best regards.

Vikki.

 

[onmebike]

There could be several reasons for complete loss of power so a process of elimination is neccessary.
With the use of a suitable meter check for power at the battery contacts with key switch on.
If no power, fault is in battery housing.
Check fuse for continuity with meter as appearance may be misleading.
Check for continuity across key switch terminals with switch in on position to isolate faulty switch.
If fuse and switch check out ok, fault is likely to be in battery bms circuit, a faulty cell, broken connection between cells or battery pack and key switch.

If battery is found to have full power at contacts you then need to check contacts between battery/controller and wiring in controller housing. If no faulty/loose connections or broken wires are found fault is likely to be in controller which may require replacement or repair.
Have a good tug on all connectors to ensure crimp/solder joints are good.

 

[Vikki]

There's no BMS in an SLA battery pack, just to save confusion.

All other suggestions are good

A meter really does help, too.

If I recall correctly. The negative battery wire doesn't go through the key-switch but the positive (red wire) does. It also links across to another contact on the key-switch. This contact selects between pedelec or power on demand mode.

Best regards.

Vikki.

 

[onmebike]

There's no BMS in an SLA battery pack, just to save confusion.


Thanks Vikki, I've no knowledge of particular bike and didn't notice reference to sla batteries.

Tony

 

[Blew it]

Wiring diagram

This may help. HERE

 

[dan]

another part to check on the popwabyke is the 7 pin connector on the controller....this can get hot and ends up with a bad connection

 

[Blew it]

Powabyke spares

If a new keyswitch is needed contact

sales@bikesandbatterys.co.uk

 

[carpetbagger]

there is a connection in a heat shrink from the thottle which is somewhere near the break cables on the hablebars. Whilst applying throttle just try moving it to see if cuts in/out.

 

[Nekobus]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, everyone, and the confirmation of the battery condition.

Bob, I agree the battery retention method leaves a lot to be desired. I hope a secondary result of my investigations will be that I resolve the contact issue - have you any thoughts on that? Speaking of contacts, I'll drop Frank a line, thanks for the suggestion, although I see you've posted some wiring information later in the thread.

Vikki, I wimped out and put the bike on the train home - 9 miles unpowered seemed more than I could face... The keyswitch seems an obvious point to check, thanks for sharing those details about it.

Onmebike, that's a useful checklist, thank you.

Dan, Carpetbagger, I'll look at those areas as well.

I'll dig my multimeter out over the weekend and, armed with your suggestions, I'll take a look. I'll report back any findings.

Thanks again, I'm really grateful for the way you have responded to my request for help.

Best wishes

Ian

 

[Blew it]

Battery locking pin

Regarding the battery locking pin.

The problem is, the locking pin doesn't always engage in the hole in the battery casing. When recently fitting a new battery to a machine, the owner asked for this to be looked at, he was using a trouser belt to hold the battery in place.

When the keyswitch is turned to the locking position, The pin was missing the hole by a couple of mm, the plastic casing was deforming backwards giving the impression the battery was locked in.

Put a blob of paint on the end of the pin and then, with the battery pressed down operate the keyswitch. You will then have a paint mark on the battery casing showing how far out the alignment is.

You can alter the angle of the pin by placing a suitable thickness washer between one side of the keyswitch and the inside of the headstock cowling, and then replacing the countersunk screw from the other side. Which side the washer is placed depends on which way you want to alter the angle, if you see what I mean.

Don't be tempted to elongate the hole in the battery casing, there is a molded-in brass ring to add a little strength, and it's not very big.

Have fun
Bob

 

[Nekobus]

Update

Right, I had a look today. It took me a while to figure out how to take apart the casing - who knew there were 4 screws under the transfer on the top? Bob, your wiring diagrams were invaluable: without them, I would have been scratching my head for ever, probably, trying to work out where the plug with the black and red wires had fallen out from... Like Vikki, I have soldered connections rather than spades, but they all seem sound.

The culprit apparently was the 7 pin connector, which somehow had got lifted on one side - my guess would be it got loosened at some point on my route, and came free as I set off from the lights. Once I'd pressed it back home, I was able to get the leds lit by connecting the battery box.

I have to say that my battery box contacts are in bad shape - on the bike, the positive terminal in particular has suffered, with blackness on its surface. The corresponding contact in the battery box is also blackened, and significantly lower than the negative contact. Is that likely to be caused by arcing as the battery came away from the contacts when it wasn't properly secured? Should I be overly concerned, given that I am now able to maintain a secure - albeit not very elegant - connection now? (Bob, I will experiment with your suggestions about the battery lock when I get more time.) Bizarrely, according to my meter, the continuity betwen the posts was much worse - to the point of non-existence - when the white plastic spacer they protrude through was fitted. Seems very odd to me.

So I'm back in pedal-assisted motion, which is great news Thank you to all who chipped in with advice - without you, I wouldn't have had the confidence to investigate further, nor much understanding of what I was looking at.

Best wishes

Ian

 

[Vikki]

Well done, Ian

Yep, arcing would have caused the blackening of the contacts. Clean them up and make sure they make good contact and you should be good I guess you've already done that

Vikki.

 

[Blew it]

That's good news, you're up and running.

The blackening of the battery contacts is not unusual, even when the battery is secured in the correct way some pitting and blackening will occur with extended use. In the case of batteries secured with cable ties, velcro straps and even trouser belts, this burning of the contacts will be greater.

The male contacts on the bike can be cleaned with fine grade emery or wet 'n' dry paper, the female contacts on the battery with the same abrasive cloth wrapped around a narrow lollipop stick, or one of those little sticks they give you to stir your tea at roadside cafe's.

Anyway, give yourself a pat on the back, you've just moved several notches around the learning curve of E-bike maintenance. User manuals cover the basics, E-bike forums such as Pedelecs UK fill in the gaps.

Happy E-biking Ian

Regards
Bob