Police ebike checks.

[smifee]

I was a policeman for 30 years retiring 22 years ago.

If I wanted something but didn't have the power to demand it I used the 'bullshit baffles brains' method. Most of the time it worked.

A couple of years after retiring it was my practice to cycle with my dog off the lead on the footpath. In a busy area I attached the dog to the nearside of the bike using a 'walkydog' and rode on the road.

A traffic policeman stopped me and told me it was illegal to cycle with a dog attached to a bike. I asked him to tell me the act & section or regulation. He said he would look it up and phone me with the details.

Never heard from him.

I haven't voted because my flat refusal isn't an option.

 

[flecc]

A traffic policeman stopped me and told me it was illegal to cycle with a dog attached to a bike. I asked him to tell me the act & section or regulation. He said he would look it up and phone me with the details.

It was probably because the attachment implied it was a beast of burden. I've long understood that it's illegal to use dogs for towing of any kind in Britain, though it does happen elsewhere. Looking up the law seems impossible though, since search engines insist of converting any towing question into the dog being carried in a trailer, a very different thing!

The towing law is often ignored though, some people have used them to tow sleighs in snow and at least one outfit uses teams of dogs to tow wheeled sleighs on dry off-road woodland paths.
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[sjpt]

Doesn't it depend on whether the dog(s) can generate more than 250w over an extended period of time, and whether it can still pull at over 15mph?

 

[flecc]

Doesn't it depend on whether the dog(s) can generate more than 250w over an extended period of time, and whether it can still pull at over 15mph?

This law predates pedelecs and the web. I can't remember exactly when I read about it being illegal in Britain, but it was probably between 1960 and 1980. Something to do with animal welfare no doubt, a very British obsession.
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[LeighPing]

I haven't voted because my flat refusal isn't an option.

Out of curiosity, would there be a reason for you flatly refusing a Police Officer to test ride your bike in his search for illegalities and irregularities? Not that you need a reason to be non-compliant.

Doesn't it depend on whether the dog(s) can generate more than 250w over an extended period of time, and whether it can still pull at over 15mph?

Ah.. There's a relatively new dog sport and leisure activity called 'Bikejoring', which I do myself and which has now become very popular, as a google or youtube search will demonstrate, in which the dog runs ahead of the bike or scooter. Draft animal laws don't apply.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I've seen people cycling with a dog at the side on a short lead, I'm be concerned that a dog might get distracted, want to chase off after another animal or something, and run into a cycle wheel. It wouldn't do the dog, the cycle or the cyclist much good especially if a car was overtaking at the time....

 

[smifee]

Out of curiosity, would there be a reason for you flatly refusing a Police Officer to test ride your bike in his search for illegalities and irregularities? Not that you need a reason to be non-compliant.

Just because he/she doesn't have the power/right to demand it.

I assist/comply whenever I feel the request/demand is reasonable.

 

[smifee]

I've seen people cycling with a dog at the side on a short lead, I'm be concerned that a dog might get distracted, want to chase off after another animal or something, and run into a cycle wheel. It wouldn't do the dog, the cycle or the cyclist much good especially if a car was overtaking at the time....

The 'walkydog' is a metal bar attached to the seat tube. I had an elastic lead, with a small amount of stretch, on the end of the bar. Only used for short distances and at a speed that the dog is 'trotting'.

My dogs are trained to be off the lead nearly all of the time and ignore other dogs, cats, etc when commanded to do so. It takes hundreds of hours and a bucket full of treats to achieve.

 

[BazP]

I understand that if police inspected a bike and found that it was derestricted it would be illegal but as there are no speed restrictions for a bike on the road under what grounds would they be able to stop you, let alone come to your house with a report of speeding?
I’ve followed cycle groups in the Peak District doing 40 - 45 mph. I wonder if the police were waiting at their homes.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I understand that if police inspected a bike and found that it was derestricted it would be illegal but as there are no speed restrictions for a bike on the road under what grounds would they be able to stop you, let alone come to your house with a report of speeding?
I’ve followed cycle groups in the Peak District doing 40 - 45 mph. I wonder if the police were waiting at their homes.

Perhaps a reasonable suspicion that you were riding a bike whose motor was capable of providing assistance above 15.5mph?
They could assess the effort you appear to be putting in vs speed, your physical condition (weight and age maybe), appearance (wearing lycra vs jeans maybe?) etc etc for clues.
A fat old bloke wearing jeans and a waterproof jacket travelling at 40 mph on a bulky bike with suspension, a wide saddle and wide tyres would be suspicious for example
Your actual speed is irrelevant, it could be 2mph, 10mph, 20mph....

 

[Bobajob]

Perhaps a reasonable suspicion that you were riding a bike whose motor was capable of providing assistance above 15.5mph?
They could assess the effort you appear to be putting in vs speed, your physical condition (weight and age maybe), appearance (wearing lycra vs jeans maybe?) etc etc for clues.
A fat old bloke wearing jeans and a waterproof jacket travelling at 40 mph on a bulky bike with suspension, a wide saddle and wide tyres would be suspicious for example
Your actual speed is irrelevant, it could be 2mph, 10mph, 20mph....

You sure you’re not a copper or ex copper?

 

[Woosh]

They could assess the effort you appear to be putting in vs speed, your physical condition (weight and age maybe), appearance (wearing lycra vs jeans maybe?) etc etc for clues.

I reckon a lot of officers now own e-bikes themselves, they can look at the usual place for a dongle if you have a CD bike or the size/diameter of your motor...

 

[Deleted member 25121]

You sure you’re not a copper or ex copper?

I'm not but why on Earth is that relevant?

 

[BazP]

A fat old bloke wearing jeans and a waterproof jacket travelling at 40 mph on a bulky bike with suspension, a wide saddle and wide tyres would be suspicious for example

Wouldn't that be discrimination on the grounds of size and dress?

 

[gw8izr]

Wouldn't that be discrimination on the grounds of size and dress?

Whilst I am old, a bit fat and ride a bulky bike I can “just” hit 40mph on the flat and my motor has stopped helping me a long time before I get there......

And I would say nope you can’t ride it. I’ve never yet met a difficult bobby and have confidence in my ability to satisfy the request without it being necessary to hand over the bike.

After a while he or she would realise the fishing trip wasn’t going to be productive and they would move on. All a load of nonsense......

 

[LeighPing]

This topic's been an interesting debate, touching on the current practice of policing by consent. Some criminals rely on our publicly spirited goodwill to steal from us, and sometimes they rely on some folks naivety and compliance too. Others rely on that same goodwill, naivety and compliance to prove suspected, alleged wrongdoing. The voting outcome is enlightening.

I've let strangers ride my perfectly legal ebike at the park. It was 4 years back, according to the date on the video. At the time, it never even occurred to me that they might ride off with it.

 

[flecc]

I've let strangers ride my perfectly legal ebike at the park.

Me too, and on the roads. One of a hard looking group of teenagers hanging around a supermarket, having seen my e-bike in the rack asked to ride it with the air that he expected me to say no.

I said "yes of course", at which one of the others said to him, "You jammy git!"

I showed him the controls, but before he rode off he insisted on giving me his expensive smartphone, trust in response to trust.

In fact I gave all three a turn on the bike while chatting with the others.

It failed to convert them to e-bikes though, since about a year later when cycling nearby, a trio of noisy mopeds slowed alongside me, one tipped open his helmet and it was the same three greeting me, so at least it had made friends.
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[Bobajob]

This topic's been an interesting debate, touching on the current practice of policing by consent. Some criminals rely on our publicly spirited goodwill to steal from us, and sometimes they rely on some folks naivety and compliance too. Others rely on that same goodwill, naivety and compliance to prove suspected, alleged wrongdoing. The voting outcome is enlightening.

I've let strangers ride my perfectly legal ebike at the park. It was 4 years back, according to the date on the video. At the time, it never even occurred to me that they might ride off with it.

I agree ping.
The problem is one wishes to be civil but the more civil and nice we are the more oppressive the police tend to be.

 

[Bobajob]

I agree ping.
The problem is one wishes to be civil but the more civil and nice we are the more oppressive the police tend to be.

How would you react if approached by the police.
Depending on how much being messed around by the police I would decide whether to comply.

A). Don’t comply the police can confiscate your bike and the time taken for them to test it and find it’s not illegal. Inform you of the outcome for you to arrange to pick it up sometime.

B). Just let him ride it, realise it isn’t and you can go on your way.

 

[LeighPing]

before he rode off he insisted on giving me his expensive smartphone, trust in response to trust.

Did you check his phone for criminal paraphernalia?