Please help me build my full suspension EMTB!!!

[sefunlekite]

You re right. I will measure how much space I have at the chainstay and pivot compared to the motor diagram I manage to find. Thanks for your help

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Also, if you grind the frame narrower, there will be no recess for the bottom bracket adaptors. Basically, you can't do it. All you need is the 100mm shaft version. That's what they're for.

 

[cycling weakly]

So potential problems:
1) the chain might touch the frame and suspension pivot?
2) the chain might be misaligned?
3) the motor might not fit and touch the frame?
That s quite a bit.
I read on an Amazon review that the tsdz2 fits into 80 mm max (is that true?) so that s 12mm to clear 6mm each side... I ll have a look tonight

My TSDZ2 is in a 68mm BB shell & there is about 5mm of thread left with the single nut fitted. So 73mm is the limit, also with that bend in the downtube the motor is going to hang very low. This is less of a problem with the TSDZ2 which is more compact than the BBSxx. The BBSHD shown in the Empowered Cycles post is very low when unladen, on full bounce it must nearly scrape the ground. As a rule of thumb, Older frames with a straight downtube & standard BB are much less of a challenge.

Steve

 

[wheeliepete]

My TSDZ2 is in a 68mm BB shell & there is about 5mm of thread left with the single nut fitted. So 73mm is the limit, also with that bend in the downtube the motor is going to hang very low. This is less of a problem with the TSDZ2 which is more compact than the BBSxx. The BBSHD shown in the Empowered Cycles post is very low when unladen, on full bounce it must nearly scrape the ground. As a rule of thumb, Older frames with a straight downtube & standard BB are much less of a challenge.

Steve

Ground clearance of the motor is the main reason I do not like converted F/S bikes , otherwise I would prob of built one by now. That and the fact you are forced to carry your battery in a backpack or fabricate a custom frame case for the majority of bikes on the market. I must say I have not come across the TSDZ motors, but I'm assuming they are only made in 68/73mm size. Is there a good reason why most run them with an external controller?

 

[anotherkiwi]

... I must say I have not come across the TSDZ motors, but I'm assuming they are only made in 68/73mm size. Is there a good reason why most run them with an external controller?

More Amps

 

[cycling weakly]

Ground clearance of the motor is the main reason I do not like converted F/S bikes , otherwise I would prob of built one by now. That and the fact you are forced to carry your battery in a backpack or fabricate a custom frame case for the majority of bikes on the market. I must say I have not come across the TSDZ motors, but I'm assuming they are only made in 68/73mm size. Is there a good reason why most run them with an external controller?

It's the GSM that is run with an external controller.

Steve

 

[wheeliepete]

It's the GSM that is run with an external controller.

Steve

Your right Steve, I'm getting in a mid drive muddle again

 

[sefunlekite]

Hello again.
So I've done the math, took all dimension. I believe it will fit:
- adaptor: the ones I have found have 41 oustide 35 inside and very little recess on the outside so should be ok
- By shaving to 73mm the bb everything clears. The chain ring can be changed as it s standard bcd 110 so no problem there.
So yes it s risky but I m going for it! Worse case my bike guru can sort thing out.

So now:
- what seller do you recommend? I ve read:
pswpower (amazon or not): looks like they have a eu warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2017-2S-GAYM.4WTRY
But it s $110 more than the chinese warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2015-93-QDKT.6P4CE
auto-ebike.
Is there a high change to get hit hard with customs duties by buying with those east sellers?
Anything on ebay to get the paypal guarantees?

- What version to take: I'm still reading the millions pages here and on es about this motor. Looks like the 36v 350 or 500w is what is recommended. It s true that 36v batteries are cheaper. Is it true that the 42v

- What display: I like the small form factor of the xh18 but looks like if I want to add throttle one day I need VLCD5?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Nealh]

With the China warehouse have you factored added in the postage and approx. £25 duty, the price will be a bit more then EU warehouse.
Aliexpress is another option.
If you want a throttle might be better to get the throttle version as it is not clear that you can simply retrofit a throttle I think there might be two VLCD5's.
Reading on ES someone did retrofit throttle but had to solder two more wires to his lcd.

 

[cycling weakly]

Hello again.
So I've done the math, took all dimension. I believe it will fit:
- adaptor: the ones I have found have 41 oustide 35 inside and very little recess on the outside so should be ok
- By shaving to 73mm the bb everything clears. The chain ring can be changed as it s standard bcd 110 so no problem there.
So yes it s risky but I m going for it! Worse case my bike guru can sort thing out.

So now:
- what seller do you recommend? I ve read:
pswpower (amazon or not): looks like they have a eu warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2017-2S-GAYM.4WTRY
But it s $110 more than the chinese warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2015-93-QDKT.6P4CE
auto-ebike.
Is there a high change to get hit hard with customs duties by buying with those east sellers?
Anything on ebay to get the paypal guarantees?

- What version to take: I'm still reading the millions pages here and on es about this motor. Looks like the 36v 350 or 500w is what is recommended. It s true that 36v batteries are cheaper. Is it true that the 42v

- What display: I like the small form factor of the xh18 but looks like if I want to add throttle one day I need VLCD5?

Thanks for the help!

I bought mine from a guy at Marske near Redcar who will either supply or do conversions. You can find him on Gumtree. Search for electric bikes in North Yorkshire, or you can get him on 07769 207366 his name is Carle.

Steve.

 

[sefunlekite]

Any good advice on where to find a good 36v battery and charger? Any good battery builders around or on eBay? Thanks

 

[sefunlekite]

So to give an update: my bike has been built for a couple months now and I love it! It rides great. I get uphill like there s no tomorrow but still getting a proper workout by pedalling. The torque sensor is great and I really don't regret not going the bafang way. The way the bike handles with added weight is very close to before. I would say there s is added stability but lost manoeuvrability which not a bad thing as this bike was toO nimble before. My advise is get good suspensionS as it makes a huge difference!

- My bike doctor shaved the bottom bracket to 73mm which enable me to fit the motor by also use standard BB if I want to remove the motor one day. Also it improved the chainlike greatly.
- I ve changed the chain ring to a 34t hope which has wide narrow tooth. With the clutch on the shifter and those tooth I basically never drop the chain! It s great for climbing but on road downhill (which I don t do much as I use a normal road bike for that) it s not fast enough so something like 38 could be better.
The two next upgrades:
_ The battery fit on the downtube but not with the big bracket. So at the moment I ve put it on the upper tube with big straps. I will sort this out at some point with hose clamps or something but it will than be mounted all the time which is not nice for charging. If you have any recommendations please be my guest.
_ Change controller to avoid having the torque lower when you drop a gear. It s the only annoying thing about this motor.
So that project cost me around £1000 for a bike that would have cost 4000 if you re looking for similar specs on the market.
Thank you very much for all the people that help me build this bike!
Here is how it looks like

By the way in reply to my last posting in terms of where to buy the motor and the battery, I will give you my feedback as the time it was hard to find a lot of feedback on a good seller. I went with PSW POWER http://www.pswpower.com/peng/pic.asp
And it was a great experience:
- paypal payement with the warranty that comes with it.
- Very fast shipping with no taxes as it came from their european warehouse. They have the same in the us.
- The seller answers quickly
So I recommend them! They are quite a few guys that I know which have bought from them and all of us are happy

 

[wheeliepete]

Glad to hear you found a way around the problems you had, that looks pretty neat for a F/S build. Like you say £3000 saved, result

 

[Deere John]

Great! I am building a similar myself. One thing I noticed half way through the build. IF we need to service the rear triangle bearings we need to remove the motor but otherwise I think it's a very nice concept!

 

[Tyntin]

So to give an update: my bike has been built for a couple months now and I love it! It rides great. I get uphill like there s no tomorrow but still getting a proper workout by pedalling. The torque sensor is great and I really don't regret not going the bafang way. The way the bike handles with added weight is very close to before. I would say there s is added stability but lost manoeuvrability which not a bad thing as this bike was toO nimble before. My advise is get good suspensionS as it makes a huge difference!

- My bike doctor shaved the bottom bracket to 73mm which enable me to fit the motor by also use standard BB if I want to remove the motor one day. Also it improved the chainlike greatly.
- I ve changed the chain ring to a 34t hope which has wide narrow tooth. With the clutch on the shifter and those tooth I basically never drop the chain! It s great for climbing but on road downhill (which I don t do much as I use a normal road bike for that) it s not fast enough so something like 38 could be better.
The two next upgrades:
_ The battery fit on the downtube but not with the big bracket. So at the moment I ve put it on the upper tube with big straps. I will sort this out at some point with hose clamps or something but it will than be mounted all the time which is not nice for charging. If you have any recommendations please be my guest.
_ Change controller to avoid having the torque lower when you drop a gear. It s the only annoying thing about this motor.
So that project cost me around £1000 for a bike that would have cost 4000 if you re looking for similar specs on the market.
Thank you very much for all the people that help me build this bike!
Here is how it looks like

By the way in reply to my last posting in terms of where to buy the motor and the battery, I will give you my feedback as the time it was hard to find a lot of feedback on a good seller. I went with PSW POWER http://www.pswpower.com/peng/pic.asp
And it was a great experience:
- paypal payement with the warranty that comes with it.
- Very fast shipping with no taxes as it came from their european warehouse. They have the same in the us.
- The seller answers quickly
So I recommend them! They are quite a few guys that I know which have bought from them and all of us are happy

Which watt motor did you opt for?

 

[sefunlekite]

Which watt motor did you opt for?

Hi sorry for late reply 350w. I believe it s plebty even for steep climb. Don t regret it

 

[sefunlekite]

Great! I am building a similar myself. One thing I noticed half way through the build. IF we need to service the rear triangle bearings we need to remove the motor but otherwise I think it's a very nice concept!

Yes but it takes 5min to dismantle it. Nota problem

 

[minexplorer]

Hi,

I'm new here so apologies if don't respect the etiquette. I currently live in Aberdeen (Scotland) close to some good trails and small moutains. I enjoy mountainbiking in them. As I have a 2 year old and work quite a bit I m not as fit as I used to be and don't have as much time.
My plan is to build a full suspension mtb with power assist to help climb those steep hills do do several rounds where I can only do one now or try to go further.
My requirements are:

1. Mid drive motor (centralised weight) which can:
- carry my weight (89kg) but I'm ok to pedal don't need thumb drive.
- gear and pedalling power sensor would be nice to manage technical climbs but i guess I could learn to ride differently. I have a background in enduro dirt bikes
- doesn't cost an arm as I will be spending quite a bit on a nice bike. I will either buy a downhill bike or an enduro one. Those bikes usually have bottom brakets which are 73°+ mm (most dwh are 83)
For example those are the bike I have my eyes on:
https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/archive/2013/alpine-160/
Here is their e version of the same bike (what I aiming for: https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/alpine-6-e-le/2018)
http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/giant/glory-dh-2009
Used bike like this are often 26'' wheels, whereas 27.5 are recommended to achieve better grip. MY plan is to use wider tires to make up the difference.
QUESTION 1: How much power do I need? If you look at industrial production: bosch / yamaha / shimano motors they are 350w max and use 36v battery so it s not that much...

Reading here and elsewhere this is what I'm leaning towards (good source: https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/)
A. Bafang (500-1000w): seems that it s the best value, reliable easy to install etc...
B. GNG 1000w: seems to be better with climbs that bafang. Worried about the size of the bottom braket as it mentions 68 only? How hard is it to install this one (controller not integrated)
C. Cyclone: One of the most powerfull one but reliability issues? Hard to install (controller not integrated)?
D. Tongsheng TSDZ2: bafang with a pedaling power sensor? reliability issues?
QUESTION 2: feedback on motor for my needs?

2. Battery:
- I m ok with backpack or frame attached. However those bikes usually have small space within the bike triangle so it will have to be attached to the bottom bar hanging style.
- Capacity: I m thinking several hours outings so doesn't need something crazy but hill climbing usually needs capacity.
QUESTION 3: feedback on battery for my needs?
Would 36v be ok to keep the cost down? I see good bootle kits for £200.

QUESTION 4: What is your advice to source all this? Used would be nice but quite hard to find? China or local?

Any feedback and this project is well appreciated!
Here is an industrial production of what I m trying to achieve: https://www.lift-mtb.com/

If u cant afford a bbshd buy a bbs01 350w and programme 100 % keep current .Get the biggest 36volt battery u can afford ,made up with panasonic/sanyo 3500mah GA cells.You will have a great set up that will serve your needs well.Alternatively a bbs02 .Programme to lower amps ,say 18 - 20. Set keep current 100 %. This will allow u to use a 48volt battery .GA cells, for more hill climbing torque than a 36v system.

 

[M1watch]

So to give an update: my bike has been built for a couple months now and I love it! It rides great. I get uphill like there s no tomorrow but still getting a proper workout by pedalling. The torque sensor is great and I really don't regret not going the bafang way. The way the bike handles with added weight is very close to before. I would say there s is added stability but lost manoeuvrability which not a bad thing as this bike was toO nimble before. My advise is get good suspensionS as it makes a huge difference!

- My bike doctor shaved the bottom bracket to 73mm which enable me to fit the motor by also use standard BB if I want to remove the motor one day. Also it improved the chainlike greatly.
- I ve changed the chain ring to a 34t hope which has wide narrow tooth. With the clutch on the shifter and those tooth I basically never drop the chain! It s great for climbing but on road downhill (which I don t do much as I use a normal road bike for that) it s not fast enough so something like 38 could be better.
The two next upgrades:
_ The battery fit on the downtube but not with the big bracket. So at the moment I ve put it on the upper tube with big straps. I will sort this out at some point with hose clamps or something but it will than be mounted all the time which is not nice for charging. If you have any recommendations please be my guest.
_ Change controller to avoid having the torque lower when you drop a gear. It s the only annoying thing about this motor.
So that project cost me around £1000 for a bike that would have cost 4000 if you re looking for similar specs on the market.
Thank you very much for all the people that help me build this bike!
Here is how it looks like

By the way in reply to my last posting in terms of where to buy the motor and the battery, I will give you my feedback as the time it was hard to find a lot of feedback on a good seller. I went with PSW POWER http://www.pswpower.com/peng/pic.asp
And it was a great experience:
- paypal payement with the warranty that comes with it.
- Very fast shipping with no taxes as it came from their european warehouse. They have the same in the us.
- The seller answers quickly
So I recommend them! They are quite a few guys that I know which have bought from them and all of us are happy

Fantastic job