Please help me before I go MAD

[philwood90]

Hi, My wife is disabled and I need a good quality full suspension mountain electric bike with a 16" frame. It must have disc brakes and suspension that locks out and I want a throttle as well. I don't like the Bosch crank drive system which rules out the cube. I liked the look of the KTM eLycan, but they start with 17" frames which is too big.

This has lead me down the conversion route I have basically chosen the new Bionx D motor, which is due out here in the summer. Now my problem is what bike do you put it on. All new full suspension mountain bikes use a 12mm through axle on the rear hub, so e hub's won't fit. Any body got any suggestion or ideas.

Thanks

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Our 17" bikes are very small, has your wife tried one? All brands measure in different ways, so our 17" is actually smaller than many brands 16".

However the eLycan doesn't have a throttle, so if you're looking for a bike with a throttle non of the KTMs eBikes will be an option.

If you're asking about non eBikes you're probably best asking on singletrack world of another similar forum.

For small full suspension bikes Orange and Giant are you best bet.

We also have some stock of the Lycan SE1 in a 17" which is she's over 5' 5" would be fine. This is a 130mm travel bike with 26" wheels and standard qr dropouts. Which is rare for a full suspension bike from recent years.

Most new bikes you'll find have 27.5" wheels and bolt though dropouts.

So if she is shorter than 5' 5" I'd recommend looking for a second hand or clearance Orange or Giant and converting one of them.

Hope that helps
Col.

 

[trex]

welcome to the forum. Your wife's needs require careful considerations because of her disability. How tall is she? how much does she weigh? is it hilly where you live? Another consideration is what happens if she is too tired to ride home? can you come and pick her up with the bike in the back of the car?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Have you tried the Bionx? It's not everybody's cup of tea, and I don't think that you can get it with a throttle. You'll struggle to find a ready-made electric bike like you've described with a throttle. I think you need to do a bit more research before deciding what you want. There's loads of full suspension MTBs that have 9mm and 10mm axles that are good candidates for conversion. Why does it have to be the latest model? The modern bikes mainly don't have enough room for a frame-mounted battery, especially in small size. You need to look at a load of conversions to see how people mount the batteries. It's very difficult on a small FS bike. If you wait a month or so, there might be a couple of new models from UK brands close to what you want.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trek-Fuel-EX-5-Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike-Rock-Shox-Shimano-Deore-Bontrager-/271429248948?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item3f3271a7b4

 

[jackhandy]

That Trek D8veh linked to is nicely specced bike - Quite fancy it meself

One point to bear in mind when buying second-hand is that most bouncers have a hard life if they've been used as they should be:
Try before you buy.

 

[trex]

The only way to mount a bottle battery on this Trek is under the down tube.

 

[hech]

KTM : "If you're asking about non eBikes you're probably best asking on singletrack world of another similar forum."
-What?
"We also have some stock of the Lycan SE1 in a 17" which is she's over 5' 5" would be fine. This is a 130mm travel bike with 26" wheels and standard qr dropouts. Which is rare for a full suspension bike from recent years"
.- the lady is disabled, she may not necessarilly be also a para-olympian stunt jumper.

Philwood90 have you looked at the Bafang midrive? It comes with throttle and pas and various power levels. It will run up any hill on 36v without excessive pedalling and is easy and cheap to fit. You can put the battery in your pocket.

 

[philwood90]

Our 17" bikes are very small, has your wife tried one? All brands measure in different ways, so our 17" is actually smaller than many brands 16".

However the eLycan doesn't have a throttle, so if you're looking for a bike with a throttle non of the KTMs eBikes will be an option.

If you're asking about non eBikes you're probably best asking on singletrack world of another similar forum.

For small full suspension bikes Orange and Giant are you best bet.

We also have some stock of the Lycan SE1 in a 17" which is she's over 5' 5" would be fine. This is a 130mm travel bike with 26" wheels and standard qr dropouts. Which is rare for a full suspension bike from recent years.

Most new bikes you'll find have 27.5" wheels and bolt though dropouts.

So if she is shorter than 5' 5" I'd recommend looking for a second hand or clearance Orange or Giant and converting one of them.

Hope that helps
Col.

Go on then how do KTM measure there bikes. I was alway taught to measure from the centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the frame and this gave frame size.

As for Orange ( I ride an Orange) they all use through axles now. I contacted them to see if they could build me a five with the old style drop outs and they no longer have the parts or the jigs. There are still a few 2013 giants about that used the old style drop out, but these have Giants own rear suspension unit on that does not have the lock out option on.

 

[philwood90]

Have you tried the Bionx? It's not everybody's cup of tea, and I don't think that you can get it with a throttle. You'll struggle to find a ready-made electric bike like you've described with a throttle. I think you need to do a bit more research before deciding what you want. There's loads of full suspension MTBs that have 9mm and 10mm axles that are good candidates for conversion. Why does it have to be the latest model? The modern bikes mainly don't have enough room for a frame-mounted battery, especially in small size. You need to look at a load of conversions to see how people mount the batteries. It's very difficult on a small FS bike. If you wait a month or so, there might be a couple of new models from UK brands close to what you want.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trek-Fuel-EX-5-Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike-Rock-Shox-Shimano-Deore-Bontrager-/271429248948?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item3f3271a7b4

I've spent the last 3 months researching ebikes which is why Im going mad.
No one can provide a ready built ebike to my requirements, which is why I've gone down the line of a kit build instead. The bike does not have to be the latest model, and can't be as no one still does the rear drop style. I have found it nearly impossible to find an old full sus MTB in the correct frame size. Evans might have a 2012 BMC bike if they can find it. I ordered it a month ago to collect from store. It never arrived and now they can't find it, I don't think they ever had it,
There might even be a Cannondale Trigger carbon 2 in Norfolk, But its expensive and will be over kill for what my wife will be doing on it.
As for the battery you can still get rear racks for full suspension bikes, so it will go on there.

Wanted the throttle as an emergency get me home option

Bionx Throttle Module
£35.00

Add to cart

The remote throttle is retrofitted on all BionX systems where the G2 console is used.

 

[twinkle]

Not saying this to invoke or invite discussion on this thread but

IMHO the e-bike industry caters for "fit and active " riders that want a bit more from a bike or less fit that need a little help , more than someone that has a requirement for a specific need , The retro fit throttle above is one of the first items I have seen that allows customisation to allow someone the choice of whether they want to pedal or not , surely it would not cost a lot to have the throttle option on all controllers .

had my tu-penny worth , now they are coming to take me away ha ha to the ....

regards emma

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm not sure Bionx is a good choice. The heavy motor will ruin the feel of the rear suspension, and with the battery high up on a seat-post rack, the handling will be diabolical for off-road use. You need to get the weight better balanced. A crank-drive like the BBS01 would be much better, as long as you get a bike with a 68mm BB. Some high-end FS MTBs have 73mm or other non-standard ones.

When you have an electric bike, you don't need such a high spec. Why do you need full suspension, and why are you only looking at high-end bikes? Does she already do sporting off-road stuff? Has she already got a bike? If so, why don't you convert it? You said that she's disabled. Can you give some more details because at the moment, nothing seems to add up. Why does a disabled person, who presumably has difficulty riding any bike, suddenly need a high-end full-suspension MTB, which would be much more difficult to ride (and convert) than a shopper bike? It's difficult to advise without a clear picture of the overall situation. It might be better to explain the whole scenario and ojectives because their might be options that you haven't thought of.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Go on then how do KTM measure there bikes. I was alway taught to measure from the centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the frame and this gave frame size.

As for Orange ( I ride an Orange) they all use through axles now. I contacted them to see if they could build me a five with the old style drop outs and they no longer have the parts or the jigs. There are still a few 2013 giants about that used the old style drop out, but these have Giants own rear suspension unit on that does not have the lock out option on.

Sorry, I was suggesting looking at an old Orange or Giant, not a new one. No decent brand of bike will offer a qr axle on the back end of a 26" wheel full suspension bike these days.

regarding the KTM sizing .... all brands measure from different points. You are correct that many measure centre to top. ie centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube (called c2t).

However many brands also c2c, which is centre to centre - centre of the bottom bracket to the centre of the point where the top tube meets the seat tube.

However there are also brands that measure from the centre of the bb, to an imaginary point horrizontal from the top of the head tube.

So you need to know how a brand measure size, before you consider a certain brand.

We do measure c2t, but our bikes have a lot of seat tube above the top tube, so they are smaller than the geometry suggests. Which is why I'm saying don't discount a 17" bike until you've tried sitting on one, because our 17" are smaller than pretty much any other brand I've had experience of.

Have a look at this bike for an example of what I mean.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/p/2014-ktm-lycan-271

I'm 6" and I ride a 21" KTM which is unusual. In most brands I'm a 19"

http://www.ktm-bikes.at/fileadmin/user_upload/ktm_v1/Downloads/KTM_Geo.pdf


Hopefully this hasn't confused you too much.

Cheers
Col

 

[philwood90]

Thanks really interesting to see the different measuring techniques

 

[twinkle]

Its not surprising reading through this thread that the " simple purchase " of an e-bike can cause madness

regards emma

 

[philwood90]

I'm not sure Bionx is a good choice. The heavy motor will ruin the feel of the rear suspension, and with the battery high up on a seat-post rack, the handling will be diabolical for off-road use. You need to get the weight better balanced. A crank-drive like the BBS01 would be much better, as long as you get a bike with a 68mm BB. Some high-end FS MTBs have 73mm or other non-standard ones.

When you have an electric bike, you don't need such a high spec. Why do you need full suspension, and why are you only looking at high-end bikes? Does she already do sporting off-road stuff? Has she already got a bike? If so, why don't you convert it? You said that she's disabled. Can you give some more details because at the moment, nothing seems to add up. Why does a disabled person, who presumably has difficulty riding any bike, suddenly need a high-end full-suspension MTB, which would be much more difficult to ride (and convert) than a shopper bike? It's difficult to advise without a clear picture of the overall situation. It might be better to explain the whole scenario and ojectives because their might be options that you haven't thought of.

Ive ridden a full sus with the battery on a rack and the handling was ok.

10yrs ago my wife was in a motor bike accident and smashed all the bones in her foot. It is now extremely painful and she can't put pressure on it. Her walking is terrible and she can only manage short distances even when on very strong prescription medication. We used to do a lot of ridding together before the accident.
She has a 20yr old GT full sus mtb at the moment, It uses v brakes which are terrible and the suspension is an old spring and hardly works. It was cutting edge in its day, but time moves on. She would like a new bike, It doesn't have to be high end, But it has to be quality and last. And also be able to be taken off road with out falling to bits.
We go riding now, but its only on old railway lines turned into cycle paths and canal tow paths. Her balance is ok when she is sat down ( riding a bike) She can't put pressure on her foot, so no hills. And no vibrations coming back up through the peddles which is why its got to be full sus. While we both enjoy the rides at the moment its not adventures enough. As I see her ridding ability she would ride most of the time
Flat not using the Pedal Assist.
Hills using the Pedal Assist.
Flat if foot starts to hurt too much or swells up using the Pedal Assist.
Emergency get home using the throttle

She rides a lot better than she walks last week she managed 20 miles on the flat. lots of stops and rests, and she nearly didn't get back and also couldn't walk for 2 days afterwards.

 

[philwood90]

Its not surprising reading through this thread that the " simple purchase " of an e-bike can cause madness

regards emma

 

[philwood90]

The bike shops are shocking, When Ive been phoning round for a bike to covert . They tell me its an old style drop out and then when I get there its a through axle.

 

[superDove]

Has your wife tried a bike with seatpost suspension like a thudbuster? It might smooth the towpath bumps just enough so she doesn't need to stabilise through her feet on the pedals? If so it would open up a lot more bikes that are designed to work with throttle control.

 

[philwood90]

Sorry, I was suggesting looking at an old Orange or Giant, not a new one. No decent brand of bike will offer a qr axle on the back end of a 26" wheel full suspension bike these days.

regarding the KTM sizing .... all brands measure from different points. You are correct that many measure centre to top. ie centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube (called c2t).

However many brands also c2c, which is centre to centre - centre of the bottom bracket to the centre of the point where the top tube meets the seat tube.

However there are also brands that measure from the centre of the bb, to an imaginary point horrizontal from the top of the head tube.

So you need to know how a brand measure size, before you consider a certain brand.

We do measure c2t, but our bikes have a lot of seat tube above the top tube, so they are smaller than the geometry suggests. Which is why I'm saying don't discount a 17" bike until you've tried sitting on one, because our 17" are smaller than pretty much any other brand I've had experience of.

Have a look at this bike for an example of what I mean.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/p/2014-ktm-lycan-271

I'm 6" and I ride a 21" KTM which is unusual. In most brands I'm a 19"

http://www.ktm-bikes.at/fileadmin/user_upload/ktm_v1/Downloads/KTM_Geo.pdf


Hopefully this hasn't confused you too much.

Cheers
Col

Dont suppose you've got a 17" 2013 eLycan anywhere

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

the old style Bionx ones sold out ages ago, and the new Panasonic ones haven't arrived yet. We've got a 17" Lycan you can try for size, but it won't have any e bits.