Pedelec Law - The Details

[Michael Price]

Well, l only use the lower assistance mode so to keep the mountain bike with its 2.8" off road tyres at those speeds takes about the same effort as riding my road bike which isn't an ebike.

2.8" inch off road tyres???

how are they on the bumps??


sorry - had to be done

I assume you mean 29inch

I also normally use the lowest assist mode - I don;t have a none assist bike but I do wonder how much more effort it would be
ALthough I do tend to go faster in Eco assists level than most other bike - except the lycra clad road bike people - so I assume the assist helps a fair bit

 

[lightning]

Sorry l meant the tyres are 2.8 inches wide! They are the "plus size" tyres which
seemed to be popular a couple of years ago.

The wheels are 27 1/2"

 

[soundwave]

its down to the width and axle size to what tyre will fit the rear triangle, my tyres are 2.3 wide hansdampf on the rear and 142x 12 rear axle so boost size for mtb is the new normal size.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

What is the legality of towing a petrol generator in a small trailer to charge a second battery that could be used to power the ebike later? Just curious. I have no plans to do so but just wondered about it. Could you effectively have a petrol powered ebike legally without registration and insurance. Where you cycle vast distances by just swapping batteries regularly. If you couldn't use it while mobile would it still be ok to stop to charge batteries before continuing, I assume so. Is there a maximum speed to use a generator while moving. I remember carnival floats would run generators to power all their lights which were running in a moving vehicle. Probably only 3mph though.

 

[vidtek]

Petrol generators are heavy. Then there's the cans of fuel to run it. Plus you (and others) will be breathing in all those pollutants.
Not really a practical proposition.
Maybe you could run a small dynamo from the drive train or even a small wind turbine while moving and a couple of solar panels to charge the spare battery, that might be a more practical solution.

 

[flecc]

What is the legality of towing a petrol generator in a small trailer to charge a second battery that could be used to power the ebike later? Just curious. I have no plans to do so but just wondered about it. Could you effectively have a petrol powered ebike legally without registration and insurance. Where you cycle vast distances by just swapping batteries regularly. If you couldn't use it while mobile would it still be ok to stop to charge batteries before continuing, I assume so. Is there a maximum speed to use a generator while moving. I remember carnival floats would run generators to power all their lights which were running in a moving vehicle. Probably only 3mph though.

There is some obscure law forbidding manufacturing etc on the public highway so that could be breached. However, in the way you've descibed it as a range unlimited system, it would definitely be illegal since it would arguably be a petrol-electric drive, regardless of any delay in swapping the battery over. You'd definitely be using the petrol indirectly to propel the machine.

There are dispensations. For example very long ago there was one to permit readymix trucks to make concrete while driving on the road. I don't think ice cream vans ever had one though, but some of those do make the ice cream on the move.

Funfairs and circuses have a dispensation allowing towing more than one trailer, so they may have one for their mobile generators. That could suffice for carnivals.
.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

There is some obscure law forbidding manufacturing etc on the public highway so that could be breached. However, in the way you've descibed it as a range unlimited system, it would definitely be illegal since it would arguably be a petrol-electric drive, regardless of any delay in swapping the battery over. You'd definitely be using the petrol indirectly to propel the machine.

There are dispensations. For example very long ago there was one to permit readymix trucks to make concrete while driving on the road. I don't think ice cream vans ever had one though, but some of those do make the ice cream on the move.

Funfairs and circuses have a dispensation allowing towing more than one trailer, so they may have one for their mobile generators. That could suffice for carnivals.
.

I assume it would be legal to tow to a location and then charge the battery while stationary. I mean small petrol generators aren't too heavy and if you took it to a campsite to power devices as well as charge the ebike batteries. I was only curious about what law the police would get you on if the generator was active while riding. I have no plans to do this but it just crossed my mind that I wonder what laws would be broken.

 

[flecc]

I assume it would be legal to tow to a location and then charge the battery while stationary. I mean small petrol generators aren't too heavy and if you took it to a campsite to power devices as well as charge the ebike batteries.

That is definitely legal, caravanners do similar all the time for all sorts of purposes, including charging e-bike batteries.

I was only curious about what law the police would get you on if the generator was active while riding. I have no plans to do this but it just crossed my mind that I wonder what laws would be broken.

It might well invite a stop, since the sound of an i.c. engine when an unregistered vehicle was moving would excite curiosity, but I don't know what laws might be broken. Pollution laws could be for example, since i.c vehicles are subject to pollution limits, even when stationary and the engine not driving the vehicle.

However, some flout the laws anyway and mostly get away with it. The bike below has a Panasonic crank drive motor powered from the battery rear of seat post and/or a Heinzmann front hub motor powered by the generator on the carrier, so it breaks all sorts of laws, two 250 watt motors making it a 500 watt bike for starters:

 

[afzal]

Hi flecc,

Resurrecting an old thread,

1983 EAPC law, only now valid combined with amendments from the 2015 law below

The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983

1. These Regulations are made pursuant to section 24 of the Transport Act 1981 (which has been brought into force by the Transport Act 1981 (Commencement No. 9) Order 1983 (S.I. 1983/576 (c.16))). That section provided for the addition to section 103 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1967 (by...

www.legislation.gov.uk

6th April 2015 revisions to EAPC law

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/474/pdfs/uksi_20150474_en.pdf

Isn't

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/introduction/made

the 2015 amendment to EAPC ?

IIUC the 2015 amendment you mentioned is the one for The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) - it doesn't mention 250W replacing 200W for two wheeled and removing the 1983 law applicability only on bicycles & tricycles.

Regards
Afzal

 

[flecc]

IIUC the 2015 amendment you mentioned is the one for The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) - it doesn't mention 250W replacing 200W for two wheeled and removing the 1983 law applicability only on bicycles & tricycles.

Regards
Afzal

It didn't even need to mention the 250 watts issue since that hadn't been illegal for 12 years and a ministerial order acknowledging that was issued on 13th April 2013.

It's a mess as usual Afzal. The link you give covers the 250 watt aspect but makes no mention of the plating lable requirements or spelling out the detail of the removal of weight limits, only going on to give the authorisation by Claire Perry.

The link I gave covers the labelling and other legal aspects and is also authorised by Perry.

Why they couldn't do it neatly in one document I can guess at, to avoid acknowledging why we got into this mess.
.

 

[afzal]

Thanks @flecc for the details and the very informative OP

Actually the reason I looked into EAPC legalese was due to a VESC development discord discussion w.r.t legality of four wheeled pedelec. I was under the impression that EAPC is applicable only for 2 & 3 wheeled ones (IIUC, which 1983 law does state), then I was pointed out that it is not the case with a mention of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/introduction/made, which states

(b)for “bicycles and tricycles”, substitute “pedal cycles with two or more wheels”

 

[flecc]

Thanks @flecc for the details and the very informative OP

Actually the reason I looked into EAPC legalese was due to a VESC development discord discussion w.r.t legality of four wheeled pedelec. I was under the impression that EAPC is applicable only for 2 & 3 wheeled ones (IIUC, which 1983 law does state), then I was pointed out that it is not the case with a mention of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/introduction/made, which states

Indeed, as I said the way they've covered all the aspects of the change in separate documents is a mess. For example covering the major change of removing all weight limits by just saying "remove article 4" without any mention of weight. Unless someone is really diligent that is easily missed, so we still get people posting under the impression that the old weight limits still apply.

It all comes down to the mess they made on 10th November 2003 when they failed to implement the original change as legally instructed by the EU, by cancelling the old 1983 law and replacing it with the new. Ever since then they've tried to conceal that big mistake, even to the extent of once telling a police force they could prosecute for 250 watts. Until we intervened and stopped that.
.

 

[soundwave]

Police officer seriously injured after being hit by motorbike

A teenager has been arrested after a police officer was hit by an electric motorcycle

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

 

[lightning]

These electric motorcycles are a far cry from any pedelec, l've seen them around here. Typically the motor is upwards of 1600w with a top speed of 70mph or more.

They are readily available online so hardly surprising the local scallys are razzing around on them.

Also they are pretty much impossible to catch, hence them regularly being ridden on the main roads and around the local park.

And they are so easy to ride, no gears to learn or engine to start. No need to buy fuel or anything else.
And (it appears) often no need for a helmet

 

[lenny]

And (it appears) often no need for a helmet

Comedian Kenny DeForest dies aged 37 after horror e-bike crash in NYC following failed skull surgery for a brain bleed

Comedian dead aged 37 after horror e-bike crash in New York City

The comedian's death remains under investigation after initial reports that he was killed in a hit and run proved to be untrue.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/june-2022/reported-casualties-in-accidentscollisions-involving-e-bikes-electric-bikes-2018-2022/

 

[nmmelectric]

Indeed, as I said the way they've covered all the aspects of the change in separate documents is a mess. ...

That is an understatement! The legislation on what is allowed to be used on restricted roads (including bridleways) is at least as bad, and they have used the words 'road' and 'cycle' incompatibly in different places. And let's not mention the wording of the 1835 act (before bicycles!), some of which has been superseded by common law....

I collated everything that I could find at one time, but made several mistakes, and found a good many places where lawyers could have a field day arguing over which wording superseded what.

So thank you for your posts - I am no wiser but perhaps better informed.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi Flecc.

Do you by any chance have a law degree ?

I think you do or at least life time of trying to understand law.

like my self well the second part of that sentence .

I have not read all of your post yet but I will .

To cut to the chase how do sensible pedelech riders go about getting some legislation in place that makes common sense.

I think first step would be to write to our MP’s.

IE if I can ride an E bike faster than 15MPH what on earth is any problem if it can do this speed without using the pedals if I choose to do so.

on the road and not on the pavement.

In your opinion does an LCD screen that needs a code inputted to make a bike go faster with or without a thumb switch beat any legislation if at the time of a police stop be conforming to the law ?

Cheers
Baz

 

[flecc]

IE if I can ride an E bike faster than 15MPH what on earth is any problem if it can do this speed without using the pedals if I choose to do so.

Hi Baz, apologies for such a late reply but I've only just seen your post.

The problem with riding with assistance above 15.5 mph (just below 25kph) is that the point at which such a vehicle becomes a motor vehicle is 25kph. So the relevant motor vehicle laws have to apply.

I'm opposed to any change since there is far more to this than meets the eye or is commonly realised.
.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi Baz, apologies for such a late reply but I've only just seen your post.

The problem with riding with assistance above 15.5 mph (just below 25kph) is that the point at which such a vehicle becomes a motor vehicle is 25kph. So the relevant motor vehicle laws have to apply.

I'm opposed to any change since there is far more to this than meets the eye or is commonly realised.
.

Hi sorry for the late reply too , I have been travelling to Vietnam just got here .

I do not think One needs to ride Pedelech at any more than 15 MPH under power , but I think there needs to be a change in the legislation to allow electric switch power button to allow a pedal assist bike to be allowed to do up to 15MPH under power without pedals .

I personally think it would help with younger people in particular riding very powerful bikes that have not been designed or built for speeds in excess of this.

IE a little give here from the law makers would in my opinion be safe and allow a safe speed just from twist and go I personally would like the choice as walk assist speed is a waste of time and does not help with certain aspects of riding.

Giving a little more would probably discourage some illegal use of high power e bikes on the roads.

I do not see why Pedelechs should be governed by or linked to disabled assistance transport they are completely different methods of transport.

But I do agree that speeds of over 15MPH under assistance or twist and go should then fall into a Mophead and Motor Bike category with the relevant safety laws applied.

I am still a bit jet lagged but I will be posting some info on the new law changes in Vietnam regarding e bikes here.

 

[matthewslack]

Hi sorry for the late reply too , I have been travelling to Vietnam just got here .

I do not think One needs to ride Pedelech at any more than 15 MPH under power , but I think there needs to be a change in the legislation to allow electric switch power button to allow a pedal assist bike to be allowed to do up to 15MPH under power without pedals .

I personally think it would help with younger people in particular riding very powerful bikes that have not been designed or built for speeds in excess of this.

IE a little give here from the law makers would in my opinion be safe and allow a safe speed just from twist and go I personally would like the choice as walk assist speed is a waste of time and does not help with certain aspects of riding.

Giving a little more would probably discourage some illegal use of high power e bikes on the roads.

I do not see why Pedelechs should be governed by or linked to disabled assistance transport they are completely different methods of transport.

But I do agree that speeds of over 15MPH under assistance or twist and go should then fall into a Mophead and Motor Bike category with the relevant safety laws applied.

I am still a bit jet lagged but I will be posting some info on the new law changes in Vietnam regarding e bikes here.

That can, if I remember rightly, already be achieved using the 'single vehicle approval' process.