Yes; one of the benefits of harmonization of regulations ... hopefully that will continue when we leave EU. It must have the nominal 250w (or less) motor and speed limited to 25kph. Watch out for which side the brakes are mounted.First of all thank you for all the info in one place, i am still in the process to digest and read everything. But I have one question- if I buy a Pedelec in Holland or Germany (with EU guidelines) is it ok to drive it here in England ?
You joined the trade 70 years ago? Were you a kid at the time? Just how old are you?I think many of you will be aware of what a complex subject electric assist bicycle law is and pitfalls in trying to second guess it. As a result, and with my knowledge of it since joining the trade 70 years ago, I'm often called upon in here to give answers on the subject.
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I'm 84 and started full time work at 14 years old.You joined the trade 70 years ago? Were you a kid at the time? Just how old are you?
It was normal, even though I am not quite 74, I had my first job at 12 as a Butcher's boy, on a delivery bike, tracking miles around Waltham Abbey in 1958/9. It was hard, especially in Winter snow....I'm 84 and started full time work at 14 years old.
That wasn't unusual in those days when there weren't all the intrusive and restrictive personal laws we have now. For example at 11 years old with three part time jobs I worked/schooled a thirteen hour day Monday to Friday and an 11 hour day on Saturdays, earning exactly the same as I did when I eventually left school to work full time.
Of course that would be very illegal in many ways these days, making the employers liable to prosecution which I regard as very silly, since I trust you can judge that it did me no harm in terms of longevity, health and ability.
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Some close parallels there Andy!It was normal, even though I am not quite 74, I had my first job at 12 as a Butcher's boy, on a delivery bike, tracking miles around Waltham Abbey in 1958/9. It was hard, especially in Winter snow....
Grammar schools THEN, were only really orientated for people with two left hands, wanting to be eventually in parliament or property developement IMHO.Some close parallels there Andy!
My Saturday job from 11 years old was also as a butcher's boy on a trade bike, in the mornings delivering weekend joints and collecting the cash. Then in the afternoons helping Sid the junior butcher in making the sausages for the following week, then helping in the big cleanup ready for the following weeks shop trading.
And like you I went to a grammar school which in my case was as useless as any school could possibly be, so I wasted no time in getting out and into work. I also caught up on education in my forces years, the Army in my case.
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I think your humble opinion may be wrong. I went to grammar school then, joined the Army and ended a successful 24 year career as a Major. I now have a successful consultancy practice advising upon logistics and security in conflict zones and areas of the World with questionable rule of law. I'm quite glad I didn't leave school at 14 to be an apprentice something or other.Grammar schools THEN, were only really orientated for people with two left hands, wanting to be eventually in parliament or property developement IMHO.
A lot of variation I think, both in grammar schools and individuals. Back in the 1940s my older brother passed the scholarship and went to a grammar school he enjoyed at Isleworth, but then we moved and he had to transfer to the useless grammar school that I was to suffer later. He found it as useless as I did and left early without any qualifications to get into work.I think your humble opinion may be wrong. I went to grammar school then, joined the Army and ended a successful 24 year career as a Major. I now have a successful consultancy practice advising upon logistics and security in conflict zones and areas of the World with questionable rule of law. I'm quite glad I didn't leave school at 14 to be an apprentice something or other.
...but you were not at my Grammar School I believe, and at the same time as I was there, now were you?I think your humble opinion may be wrong. I went to grammar school then, joined the Army and ended a successful 24 year career as a Major. I now have a successful consultancy practice advising upon logistics and security in conflict zones and areas of the World with questionable rule of law. I'm quite glad I didn't leave school at 14 to be an apprentice something or other.
i have been riding my bike around since 2014 with a dongle going 30mph the police are not interested unless you kill some one.I'm not at all sure that I can follow all the ins and outs of this but If I were to buy a used s-pedelec on eBay, is it possible to detune it so that the motor cuts out at 15.5mph and is then able to be legally operated without all the faff of licensing insurance etc.? And how would I go about it?
Probably not legally. First of all, nobody is checking, so it's a bit academic. The problem you have is that it will be plated as an S-pedelec with the speed on the plate. You'd have to remove that and put on a new plate that shows thee new speed of 15.5 mph without it looking like an amateur job because if there were any suspicion, they could check the history through the serial number.I'm not at all sure that I can follow all the ins and outs of this but If I were to buy a used s-pedelec on eBay, is it possible to detune it so that the motor cuts out at 15.5mph and is then able to be legally operated without all the faff of licensing insurance etc.? And how would I go about it?
Interesting point about scooters here. They are illegal, but tolerated and as yet unregulated. A kid at the garage where I had my car repaired has a scooter with a 2600W motor, and he wants to upgrade! And obviously he can ride with a throttle, which we, supposedly aren't allowed to do. With Covid and climate awareness scooters are suddenly ideal, so pressure is now on governments to legalise. If they do, then they will obviously limit the engine size in line with ebikes, and then there will be no logical reason to ban throttles from ebikes any more. At this point they will hopefully have a look at the maximum cutout speed too, and maybe just implement the 20mph US standard.i have been riding my bike around since 2014 with a dongle going 30mph the police are not interested unless you kill some one.
there is a gang of 15 kids all flying round on scooters and there not road legal yet plod dont do jack
I'm afraid this widely held view is a myth Mark.Nailed on EU remainer, but there's now an opportunity to align ourselves with a more liberal standard over the pond..
Well you schooled me there. Thanks!I'm afraid this widely held view is a myth Mark.
I often get the impression from posts that members think our UK/EU laws are tough and that there's a free-for-all in many other places. As the following will show, nothing could be further from the truth, and that includes much of the USA as seen further down.
Mainland Europe of course has a single standard which all but the UK and Germany strictly follow. Many other countries follow EU law, including the EEC countries, Turkey and Australia for example, Japan's is similar but very much tougher. China has adopted EU law but is delaying implementation to get a smoother transition.. Malaya has announced that it is banning e-bikes, something which has happened in some Chinese cities and city areas.
The videos seen from the USA of 1500 watt or greater e-bikes doing amazing things are mostly off-road or on remote tracks, since nowhere in the USA is more than 1000 watts permitted. Federal law says 750 watts and 20 mph assist, so what? My legally bought and operated e-bike peaks at 1000 watts, and it's the second I've owned like it. US states can pass their own laws which override Federal law but none have gone above 1000 watts or 30 mph and most states stick to federal law.
First the bits where the US state laws are easier, States can appear in more than one section, both easier and stricter:
These 8 states permit 1000 watts:
California, Georgia, Kansas, Maryland, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Washington DC.
These 2 states permit 25 mph assist:
Louisiana, Pennsylvania.
These 2 states permit 30 mph assist:
Connecticut, Idaho.
N.B. None of these higher speed and 1000 watt states coincide. Perverse indeed.
Now for the bad news!!
There are 50 states plus Washington DC, which is a federal district, and here's shock number one. Over a quarter of them require some form of driving licence to ride an e-bike on roads! And shock number two is that e-bikes are banned from almost all state federal highways.
These states until very recently totally banned e-bikes and still refuse to register them:
New York State, Illinois.
They are still subject to restrictions, for example e-bikes can only be used on roads in New York State with speed limits no higher than 30 mph. Elsewhere they are illegal.
These 13 states require a moped licence or some other form of drivers licence:
Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Washington.
These 4 states require e-bike registration:
Louisiana, Minnesota, North Dakota, Pennsylvania.
These 4 states require helmet wearing:
California, Tennessee, Washington, Massachusetts for under 16s on any bicycle.
These 4 states have minimum age limits at or above the UK's 14 years to ride an ebike:
Illinois, Louisiana, Ohio, Virginia.
These states require third party insurance, plus vehicle inspection before going on the road.
North Dakota, Pennsylvania
Nevada requires full lights and mirror fitted.
Virginia requires compliance with motor vehicle laws when on road.
This chaotic national situation means it's very easy to fall foul of the police any time an e-bike rider crosses a state line.
So there you are, the grass on the other side isn't quite as green as I bet many of you thought previously. The UK and Europe aren't so bad for e-biking after all, remember that these EU countries, Germany, The Netherlands and Denmark allow much more, 28 mph S class ebikes with minimal bureaucracy. And if the European parliament recommendation for complete removal of power limits ever comes about, there will be many other countries getting jealous of us!
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