Pedals, Cleats and straps

[JohnInStockie]

Does anyone use Cleats or straps with their electic bike? I am considering moving to SPD pedals and shoes and am interested in peoples opinions.

I have always been put off by the risk of 'falling over', which I have seen a few people do - painful

Can anyone offer any insights and opinion please.

john

 

[danieldrough]

Spd

John

I use straps or spd's on all of my bikes for the increase in efficiency they give. Spd's do take practice. The normal procedure is:

1) I'm approaching a junction/line of cars/ice cream van and will need to put my foot down.

2) Send signal to brain to disengage from pedal.

3) Oops, have forgotten 2 (see above) and appear to be on the ground.

It is possible to adjust the clip so that it is very loose and therefore easy to disengage. You just tighten it as you become more confident. I fitted pd 324's on my Twist, they are "normal" on one side sdp on the other. I have a spare pair which you are welcome to borrow if that's any use. I realise you would still have to buy shoes/cleats.

Steve

 

[rsscott]

I use the Shimano SPD pedals which have the clip on one side and a 'normal' footing on the other. I have the clip set very loose so I don't end up flat on my side struggling to get my foot out!

I found using SPD pedals it really helps on the upward stroke as you can pull your foot up. This gives you a more even stroke and has probably enabled me to ride approx 1-2mph faster than I would do normally.

cheers
Russ.

Russell Scott

Pedelecs UK
​

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

alternative to cleats and straps...

.....I have always been put off by the risk of 'falling over', which I have seen a few people do - painful
john

Hi John,

yes, i too have seen folk just keel over trying to release their feet,

if you are near a Hallfords, have a look at the 'Elite mini toe clip' these are a rigid plastic toe-cap cage, they don't have straps or cleats, so they don't trap your feet, they position your foot 'correctly' on the pedal and are strong enough to stand up on your toes, they will also give some help if you pull-up on your pedals

they're large enough to take most ordinary shoes and they cost £5,

beeps

 

[FatMog]

Yeah, I'm with Beeps - I tried spd pedals on my ordinary bike and they were ok if everything was going well and I had time to plan the release.... But when a child shot out in front of me, my feet tried frantically to hit the deck and I keeled over sideways into a bush.

SO embarrassing!

So I put on the shortie toe clips as described by Beeps and found them much better for a klutz like me

I don't have them on my sprint cos even with the seat pushed as far back as poss, I still find the pedals sit too far back and it would knacker my knees to try and keep the pedal on the ball of my foot. Anyone else found this?

 

[Charlie]

Hi,
I ride my torq with SPD shoes with cleats. The pedals were transfered over to the Torq from my old MTB.
When the pedals were new, I had to really plan where I was going to stop.
But now they have worn in a bit, I can get my feet detached without thinking or effort.

I much prefer riding with my shoes attached to the pedels for the extra effort that can be gained. But be very careful when you first start using them.

Charlie.

 

[coops]

Does anyone use Cleats or straps with their electic bike? I am considering moving to SPD pedals and shoes and am interested in peoples opinions.

I have always been put off by the risk of 'falling over', which I have seen a few people do - painful

Can anyone offer any insights and opinion please.

Hi John,

Quite an old thread I know, and maybe you've gone with toe-clips by now, but I thought I'd just post my positive experience of quick-release SPD pedals so far, in case its still useful .

I just got some Shimano PD-M324 pedals - the same dual-use ones Steve (Danieldrough) and Russ have used, with SPD on one side and 'normal' pedal on the other.

I too was a little concerned about falling over, but since the pedals came with the SM-SH56 'multiple release mode' cleats in the box I gave them a try.

With the release spring tension on minimum, I've had no problems at all releasing my foot as yet, and no falls - even a panic reaction 'pull' on a foot in almost any direction (if you forget your foot is clipped onto the pedal) releases the clip, even a sharp pull upwards, though the easiest release movement to master is to lift the foot & twist the heel outward at the same time. I think I might have fallen over a few times already if I had got standard 'single release mode' cleats (SM-SH51 & 52) instead...

Another advantage of the dual SPD/normal pedals is that you can simply pedal from junctions with one, both or even neither foot clipped-in (until you get the hang of clipping your feet in quickly, on demand) and clip you feet in at your leisure when road conditions allow. Clipping in does take a little practice, but I've only been out with them a few times and I never have to try more than a few times, sometimes I get it without trying (it helps if you've got the SPD side facing up ).

Also, I've found my feet are not held 'rigidly' in place, but rather there is quite a bit of 'give' or freedom from side to side (I measured it as 2cm at the toes, 4.5cm at the heels) so you never feel restricted, just a vague sensation of being connected or 'stuck' to the pedals .

I'd say that if your balance and reflexes are reasonably good, and you can also concentrate to some degree to remember you are clipped in so that you are ready to release a clip when you come to a stop, then you ought to be ok. Attaching the cleat in the correct position in the shoe sole for comfortable pedalling can involve a little bit of guesstimation & trial & error, and the 20mm front to back and 5mm left to right adjustment permitted may not be sufficient for all (depends if you pedal on the 'ball' of your foot or not), but I think I found quite a good setup for me with little readjustment.

Being able to put power through the pedal for longer seems to have an unexpected advantage - I've found 'pulling' the pedal up on the upstroke is very useful and easy when gong uphill, and it seems to mainly use different muscles from 'normal' pushing on the downstroke, so it eases the load on the 'normal' muscles, gives you an extra energy resource to help you climb hills and gives you a fuller workout too - they work really well in conjunction with the throttle on the Torq on gradients, probably less necessary with lower motor-geared bikes. I imagine used in that way might give a bit of a boost to hill speed on a Twist, though I have no idea how the Twist's pedelec pedal sensor would respond to such pedal input, and accordingly what sort of difference it would make to the motor power assist, if any - maybe it would allow hills to be climbed in a higher gear?

Hope thats helpful.

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

The Lafree Twist series respond more to cadence speed than rider input, and I think the downthrust on the opposite pedal is enough to get the most out of it.

The newer Panasonic unit is slightly different and would benefit a little from SPDs or similar, though for most utility users of those bikes they're probably not appropriate.
.

 

[coops]

Now you mention it, it felt more comfortable to pedal with a slower cadence in a higher gear than usual when pulling on the upstroke: I know it would vary from one individual to another, but doesn't that suggest that, for me at least, SPD's on a Twist might give a useful power/speed boost for hills, since the slower cadence would also increase motor power output?

I'm also curious how pedalling this way, albeit mainly on hills, might affect the power control of the newer Panasonic system, although if the benefit is little, as you say, then its only academic .

Stuart.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Thanks for that update Stuart.

I had more or less ruled out spd's as just too dangerous for me, maybe I should reconsider them then?

As you know, I ride mainly in rush hour oftern congested traffic, on main roads. One of the things I worry over is not being able to respond in time, I wouldnt want to fall under a car after all.

I am now on my third set of pedals, with the fourth set ready and waiting. The first ones were the ones that came with the Twist, and I found them a little small for my feet, so I then tried those 'led light up' ones, which simply cracked and broke on their hardened plastic middle. I have then moved onto some all alloy ones with the mini clips, but have found that I have been suffering more with my knees using them as the mini clip is just too small for me to get my size 11 winter boots into comfortably, and I end up powering with the tips of my toes.

So I have taken the mini clips off (which felt relly odd after getting used to them) I bought some of the Welgo Fatty pedals using the thoery that a nice big wide pedal would be more comfortable. Unfortunately, I cant get the alloy ones off now! They use an allan key rather than the normal big spanner and it almost border line now between complete stripping the thread from the allan key hole in the pedals turning into a big round hole

I was thinking that maybe if I get a heat gun on the crank it might help me ease them out perhaps


John

 

[coops]

Hi John,

I'm sorry I didn't get round to SPDs sooner - I might've saved you getting a few of those pedals still, no-one could say you're not keen to pedal your ebike (I know, its a twist, so must be pedalled, but you know what I mean)! Steve's (danieldrough) offer is a generous one, if its still open, since the shimano PD-324 pedals cost more than some shimano 'compatible' dual-use pedals, and if they come with the quick (multiple) release cleats as mine did, even better .

I've had no trouble whatsoever releasing my size 11 (though I'm a 10-10.5 or 45 usually) Specialized Taho SPD shoes (recommended for walking in too!) with the quick-release type cleats and release tension set to minimum, and I'm quite happy to leave it there for now at least. As I said, it depends on your sense of balance and reflexes a bit though as to how confident you'd feel with them on, also successful positioning the cleats in the shoe's soles might vary between individuals pedalling/riding styles, but there is some adjustability - 5mm side-to-side and 20mm front-to-back.

One might not always want to pedal harder or over more of the down/up stroke, but they're useful to have if you do want to and I can't see much of a negative of just having them as an option - except perhaps that some cycling shoes are not that comfy or practical off-bike to walk in, and there's a definite 'clink' of metal on stony ground .

Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

stay with the clips...?

I am now on my third set of pedals, with the fourth set ready and waiting. The first ones were the ones that came with the Twist, and I found them a little small for my feet, so I then tried those 'led light up' ones, which simply cracked and broke on their hardened plastic middle. I have then moved onto some all alloy ones with the mini clips, but have found that I have been suffering more with my knees using them as the mini clip is just too small for me to get my size 11 winter boots into comfortably, and I end up powering with the tips of my toes.

So I have taken the mini clips off (which felt relly odd after getting used to them) I bought some of the Welgo Fatty pedals using the thoery that a nice big wide pedal would be more comfortable. Unfortunately, I cant get the alloy ones off now! They use an allan key rather than the normal big spanner and it almost border line now between complete stripping the thread from the allan key hole in the pedals turning into a big round hole

I was thinking that maybe if I get a heat gun on the crank it might help me ease them out perhaps


John

why not use the heat gun to open up the mini-clips ?

i had the 'big foot' problem with a pair of Dr Martens shoes, took 5 mins with a heat gun to loosen up the arms on the clip, insert shoe while hot, just a little wiggle for space, allow clips to cool, test extraction of booted foot.

good luck, what ever you do.
beeps

 

[Ian]

I was thinking that maybe if I get a heat gun on the crank it might help me ease them out perhaps

That's a trick I've used many times on all kinds of jobs and it's always worked for me. My preferred "heat gun" is a propane torch, but an electric heat gun should do the job on a bicycle crank and is safer with less risk of overheating and softening the crank. Rub a bar of soap on the crank before you start and if the soap residue begins to turn brown then the crank is getting too hot. The heat will cause the crank and pedal axle to expand at different rates breaking the bond and increasing the thread clearance.

When fitting pedals and other screws into aluminium alloy threads it's a good idea to apply lubricant, ideally a propriety anti-seize paste but any grease will do, this will reduce the risk of stripped threads and make removal easier. It will also reduce the risk of electrolytic corrosion which happens when the two dissimilar metals form a crude battery, the resulting corrosion fusing the parts together.. a common example being stuck seat posts.

 

[coops]

About the choice between toeclips/SPDs, I think it depends what is your objective, John: toeclips, if they can accommodate your shoes, may help keep your feet on the pedals and give some pedal assistance, though they'd probably work best with straps too for that, while SPDs I think give a stronger bonded connection to the bike, and I consider them far less fiddly (easier) and more effective than toeclips & straps, but thats just me, and if you think they are too dangerous for you then you may be right . I imagine that it is just as easy to clip in & out of SPDs, even on dual-use pedals, as it is to get feet in & out of toeclips without straps, and the SPDs give the foot a stronger bond to the pedals, and at the point of the foot through which the pedalling force is done .

Stuart.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Beeps - I might have a try at that, although I generally am not good at those sort of things, so may end up with a puddle :O)

 

[JohnInStockie]

Ian - thanks for that good advice, I will have a go at that too, and remember the grease next time.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Coops - The thing that worries me is getting your foot out. Just about everyone that has used SPD's says that they have fallen over at one time or another, and frankly that worries me. With the mini clips, there is absolutely no risk of that (I believe).

Have you had to do any emergency split second stops yet?

 

[coops]

I had an unplanned panic test when trying them out John, due to overbalancing towards the side with foot clipped in luckily I'd set the release tension to minimum first, so a 'panic' twist & pull-up easily released my foot in time to ground it & regain my balance .

I find the multiple-release clips are very easy to release on minimum tension, though in a panic situation it helps to remember to 'twist and lift', since just pulling sharply up does release your foot, but it seems to require a much sharper pull - more force - than if you twist outwards too, which requires very little force.

If I do have an emergency stop situation, then I think as long as I can remember to twist aswell as lift, and can retain balance long enough to do so until foot is released, then I should avoid falling over sideways .

One plus is that, the longer time I get to use them & practice without a fall, the lower the chances of me forgetting how to best quick release, and so less chance of a fall .

I think it depends then too on your awareness, reaction speed & balancing ability as to how reliably you manage to release, especially in an emergency situation, and if you're really not sure about them, then maybe thats an indicator they're not for you - though it would be difficult to really tell without trying them how easily or not you can release your foot .

Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Beeps - I might have a try at that, although I generally am not good at those sort of things, so may end up with a puddle :O)

may i offer you a couple of old ones i have to experiment on...?

 

[kitchenman]

If you are messing about changing pedals from one bike to another then always check that the pedal and shoe remain in harmony. I fitted a SPD pedal to my recumbent this morning and did not check it. WHen I got to a point where I had to stop I was unable to dis-engage my left boot. Not being able to do this on a recumbent is particularly dangerous. I had to undo my straps, hope around on one foot cause it had been raining, keep hold of my 25kg bike, get the boot off the pedal, put it on and return to normality ... 30 mins later I repeated the whole process! ... I hadn't forgotten I just thought that if I tried harder I could make it work! ...