June 29, 20196 yr Came across this Pedalease 2in1 kit... Apparently the controller is in the hub, just wondered if anyone has used one of these and has any feedback? Apart from the obvious downside to this setup if either the motor or controller FUBAR its gonna mean replacing the whole shabang... But it seems a reasonable price for a pedelec virgin and comes ready to go with a wheel and 20x4" fat tyre which is a another bonus for me Means i have more money to spend on a better quality/larger battery, I was also looking to run a 72v pack (assuming the controller is good to 84v)
June 29, 20196 yr Forget that one. Where will you get a spare controller from when it goes wrong, which I can imagine won't be long after you press the buy button. Pedalease aren't noted for good customer service, which is going to compound any problems. I only heard of one guy with that kit. His went wrong straight away. If you're a brave pioneer, get it and add your experience to the knowledge base.
June 29, 20196 yr Author Fair point, Already see the quality CS kicking in! "not recommended" was all the reply I got about running 72v. Back to the Mac motor... Was trying to keep it under the £1000 mark inc battery. Going down the Mac route is around £1200 exc rim & tyre. ps. Not trying to hide from you haha:D, was trying for a more relevant thread location!
June 30, 20196 yr Am i getting any closer with this MXUS XF40 kit? A motor like that running at 45 amps would have to go in a steel frame with substantially reinforced drop-outs. You need a battery able to supply at least 45 amps continuously. You need a substantial rear tyre - something like 2.3" minimum. Finally, you need the best hydraulic brakes, not Shimano type - maybe Hope or something like that.
July 1, 20196 yr Author You wouldn't happen to have come across a kv or rpm @ ##v i can't seem to find that model or those specs... even on the MXUS site? I get the feeling that it's for a high road speed and i want torque, but if i have something to do the math with I can get a rough idea on final wheel size between 18-24" to give best balance. A motor like that running at 45 amps would have to go in a steel frame with substantially reinforced drop-outs. You need a battery able to supply at least 45 amps continuously. You need a substantial rear tyre - something like 2.3" minimum. Finally, you need the best hydraulic brakes, not Shimano type - maybe Hope or something like that. Tick for the frame/dropouts: diy tadpole style recumbent (Similar to Warrior diy frame) I can get custom dropouts machined easy enough if something like these Horizontal Dropouts won't do the trick? I was planning on having it laced into that optional 20" Holkammerfelge 2 rim with 2.34mm 'special' spokes... Dunno wtf that is but that sounds beefy, Right! LOL. I recall getting pretty hefty bmx (rock tyres?) back in the day i'll nip down the bike shop and have a look around. I have both a hardtail and softail option, just unsure of which will pan out... if that motor is gonna have some kick like you kinda suggest then hardtail would be better for rigidity! Tick for the brakes (kind of): I was looking at hydraulics and the larger 200 size rotors, thanks for the nudge in the right direction Batteries.... I know we have a long standing discussion on batteries... and you thought it was settled that i was gonna buy a quality premade pack from a reputable seller, yea.. nah man we're back to building a modular slab! I cant find any that even look reputable and the cheapest is still £140 more than a fully assembled diy pack, just my time to consider and aint like i'm making a living from this! I have gone over the manual and a few great youtube vids about the kt controllers and in the C settings you can restrict the max allowed current. (Like putting a restrictor plate in a bike for 33bhp ) Part 1 training wheels: Sony 18650VTC6 30A-3000mAh 18Ah 15s6p. Made up of 3 20v packs in series something like this: Part 2/3: Then add in an 18Ah block at a time when budget allows, then i can take the restrictor off. (should have room for 60Ah total) Can i tick that box and go hit buy???? c'mon, tell me i'm there... or at least close:confused:
July 1, 20196 yr Can i tick that box and go hit buy???? c'mon, tell me i'm there... or at least close:confused: how about build the frame before buying the motor?
July 1, 20196 yr Author I suppose it doesn't really matter if I do since the dropouts would be the same. I like having all the parts to hand so I can mock up and adapt as I go, just the way I prefer to work. Oh and Happy Monday btw
July 1, 20196 yr When you build your own battery, you have to factor in the cost of the wire, the circular end-cap insulators, insulator sheet, the spot-welder, case, charge and discharge connectors, case, large soldering iron and test equipment, as well as the cells and the BMS. It never works out cheaper to make your own battery if you only make one. I hope you don't think I'm being negative about your project. I want you to succeed. I'm just trying to make sure that you have everything covered.
July 1, 20196 yr I did think about assembling batteries for a long time but decided against it. The welding equipment alone is a major obstacle, plus die and press for cutting the nickel sheets.
July 1, 20196 yr Author I'm good for building supplies: battery wrap card, heat shrink, xt90s, nickel strip, assorted silicone wire from 8-24awg, tab welder, ts100 iron for small work and a big old Weller 80w chisel tip for battery tabs, kapton tape etc. Insulator rings ill just punch out of wrapping card. Like I mentioned before tinkering is ma'thing. Lol. Just not used to working with large parallel banks, mainly series so I'm needing no additional equipment to build with so to speak. The only controversial thing I'm gonna say is bms's. The ones I ordered arrived so I tore one down... No way am I trusting those things to maintain a balance charge on the pack, the bleed resistors are tiny barely able to add more than a few mA loading to the cells. The batteries will be made as 20v (5s) modular packs and I will be charged and maintained off the vehicle using quality calibrated equip. However I will be adding cell/cell monitoring to keep an eye on things whilst in use. Remember that very first pack is only for proof of concept and will make sure its used heavily restricted until a 2nd pack is added.
July 1, 20196 yr Take my advice and fit a BMS. It makes it plug and play. You risk bricking your pack without one, even with cell monitoring. There's nothing wrong with BMSs. Everybody uses them. They're in every ebike you can buy. The balancing system is designed for a little and often. That's all that's needed. If you change your mind, go for one that has around 10 amps of headroom above your controller.
July 1, 20196 yr Author If its little more than than discharge protection and i would be adding an inline fuse anyway since its good practice would this not sufice? But I will take your advice into consideration and have plenty of time to mull it over!
July 1, 20196 yr A fuse is only necessary without a BMS. For batteries, many of us have been through everything that you're thinking about. It's a good learning experience, but being honest, it's a lot of messing about for little reward. you end up with stuff all over the place and something that is nearly always not as good or convenient as a ready-made solution. If you add up the total cost it's always more than what you though it would be. In the old days, it was difficult to get a battery with the size, power or weight that you wanted for an Ebike, so there was no choice but to use lipos or make your own, but now you can get just about anything, and in most cases cheaper than you can make it, as they have the economy of scale.
July 1, 20196 yr now you can get just about anything, and in most cases cheaper than you can make it, as they have the economy of scale. it not just that, it's tried and tested solution. The biggest problem with experiments is the unexpected problems. a 20S BMS cost about £20. If you put 4 x 5S bricks in series, each brick may be balanced but you can't balance between the 4 bricks. A 20S BMS lets you charge all the cells at the same time and balance all the 20 blocks, saving a lot of faff.
July 1, 20196 yr a 20S BMS cost about £20. If you put 4 x 5S bricks in series, each brick may be balanced but you can't balance between the 4 bricks. Yes you can. Using LiPo packs doesn't preclude you from using a BMS. No point of using LiPo if you don't need the power density though. EDIT: Sorry. I just re-read the post you were responding to and missed the OP's dismissal of a BMS.
July 1, 20196 yr Yes you can. Using LiPo packs doesn't preclude you from using a BMS. No point of using LiPo if you don't need the power density though. EDIT: Sorry. I just re-read the post you were responding to and missed the OP's dismissal of a BMS. how are you going to wire in a BMS though? LiFePO4 may be best suited to his kit: medium discharge current and intrinsically safe. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/hot-72v-40ah-lifepo4-e-bike_1560972387.html
July 1, 20196 yr Author Ok, another dumb ass question.... by my math a 60v battery is 15s... (4x15=60) Can't find any 15s bms, but if I search for a 60v BMS I get 16s which is 64v???? How have I managed to confuse myself!
July 1, 20196 yr Ok, another dumb ass question.... by my math a 60v battery is 15s... (4x15=60) Can't find any 15s bms, but if I search for a 60v BMS I get 16s which is 64v???? How have I managed to confuse myself! don't worry about your math. We count the number of cells in series for a BMS. eg 16S = 16* 3.6V (the voltage of the Lithium-ion at 50% SOC) = 57.6V If you go for LiFePO4, note that it has lower voltage. 10S with Li-ion = 11S with LiFePO4, don't mix. Edited July 1, 20196 yr by Woosh
July 1, 20196 yr how are you going to wire in a BMS though? LiFePO4 may be best suited to his kit: medium discharge current and intrinsically safe. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/hot-72v-40ah-lifepo4-e-bike_1560972387.html LiPo packs have balance plugs that provide a connection to each cell. A custom harness using JST-XH balance cables lets you connect them to a BMS in a similar manner to any other lithium pack. In fact, it's arguably easier than most other BMS installs.
July 1, 20196 yr Author don't worry about your math. We count the number of cells in series for a BMS. But I am worrying lol. If I go with a 15s pack and can't get a BMS, that makes life awkward if I finally decide to add them! Simple Pack redesign to 16s for component availability isn't a big deal now but may have been if I had the pack built lol
July 1, 20196 yr that isn't the only problem you will have to solve! For example: how are you going to program the controller for LVC ? How will you program the LCD to display correctly the SOC of your battery? How are you going to specify the motor winding to suit your wheel? it takes me months to eliminate a single connector in my kits... Edited July 1, 20196 yr by Woosh
July 1, 20196 yr 36v = 10S 48v = 13S 60v = 16S 72v = 18S Speedict Neptune 15 is a 15S smart BMS. it's quite expensive, but has some very useful features: https://www.speedict.com/product-page/neptune-15
July 1, 20196 yr 72v = 18S why do you think 72V = 18S while people on aliexpress think it's 20S? https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-bms-72v.html
July 1, 20196 yr Author that isn't the only problem you will have to solve! For example: how are you going to program the controller for LVC ? How will you program the LCD to display correctly the SOC of your battery? How are you going to specify the motor winding to suit your wheel? it takes me months to eliminate a single connector in my kits... User manual + YouTube. I already had a read through the manual for the lcd3 thats with the kit and also watched a couple of in-depth YouTube setup videos that take you through main, P & C settings in detail. Windings and poles are on the spec sheet for the motor (failing that I can just pull the hub apart and count) Lvc I would "usually" set at 3.2v/cell for flying machines so that i dont get false lv alarm on battery sag ... but I that's a little on the low side for this application and would use a more comfortable 3.5v/cell. Again can be set on the controller, without double checking the manual i think it's total voltage... so 3.5x15 (or 16!) So an lvc of 52.5v (or 56v) Not rightly sure what the magnets are about on the hub cover (think they have something to do with speed sensing but would need that clarified) But mostly I'll do the same as any other self respecting fella... Plug it all together, throw the manual in the bin and press buttons until it works HAHA (joking lol)
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.