Panda conversion kits

[Baneli]

Hey everyone!

Okay I have been deciding for a number of days what route I wanted to take upon converting to the ebike crew! I believe I want to go down the conversion route because I feel it will be a nice little project for me and I will appreciate my bike ever so much more! Plus I love my current bike so much I want to keep it going

I think I want to keep this project pretty simple and decided to go and get the Panda conversion kit from https://www.pandaebikes.com/ mainly because of the telephone support they can give me and the year warranty on everything! My choice is what's making me think twice! So can anyone give me some thought to ponder!

So the kits are
Panda 500
36v 500watt brushless rear motor
500watt controller
36v 13ah Samsung battery
LCD screen
£630

Or the
Panda 1000
48v 1000watt rear brushless motor
1000watt controller
48v 10.4ah Samsung battery
LCD screen
£650

Both kits come with the extras like, torque arm, cables, PAD kit, breaks and other little things! Now I'm going for a bike that's obviously not road legal as it's mainly for off-road use, but may have the occasional ride to and from the off-road tracks!

My question is, what kit do you think is really better for money, they both cost around the same, however the 1000 one is probably better or am I wrong? More just what would you people with more experience go for??

 

[gray198]

Hi Handling
I wish you luck with your project. I am thinking I would like to do similar. Sure you will get good advice on here. However from a legality point of view it is wrong to assume that if you are off road etc it is legal. I think that only applies to private land where the public do not have access. So things like cyclepaths towpaths etc are legally out of bounds. Having said that plenty of people use them anyway. So your decision. All depends what you want to do with the bike.

regards

 

[Baneli]

Hi Handling
I wish you luck with your project. I am thinking I would like to do similar. Sure you will get good advice on here. However from a legality point of view it is wrong to assume that if you are off road etc it is legal. I think that only applies to private land where the public do not have access. So things like cyclepaths towpaths etc are legally out of bounds. Having said that plenty of people use them anyway. So your decision. All depends what you want to do with the bike.

regards

Yes where I ride is private land but off course getting there isn't, I can only ride safe, slow and be thoughtful of people and cars to not draw attention to myself but I understand if I get caught! I'm sure not sure if I should go for the 500 or 1000 as really the prices are the same but I don't really know the full difference of each... other then one being faster!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The 1000w kit for continuous high speed riding (20 mph +) without steep hills. The 500w one for anything else. If You're really riding on private land, like off-road, neither of them would be ideal, but out of the two, i'd choose the 500w, though a mid-drive kit would be better. The main problem with the 1000w is the range. The motor is not very efficient except at high speed.

 

[Nealh]

Range is another factor 500w will be/should be more economical then the 1000w for slower off road sections.
Also the 1kw has smaller capacity battery.

 

[RobF]

Yes where I ride is private land but off course getting there isn't, I can only ride safe, slow and be thoughtful of people and cars to not draw attention to myself but I understand if I get caught! I'm sure not sure if I should go for the 500 or 1000 as really the prices are the same but I don't really know the full difference of each... other then one being faster!

When assessing risk you should be aware the 'private land' needs to be fully fenced and gated with no rights of way across it for you to be legally just about safe.

It won't be, meaning the only place you can legally ride your bike will be in your back garden.

Perhaps a more relevant point is the type of off-road riding you intend doing.

As d8 pointed out in another thread, the weight of a rear hub motor makes it a poor prospect for what we might call proper mountain biking.

Crank drive kits are available which would do a better job.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Also the 1kw has smaller capacity battery.

Not quite. The 48v battery is 13S4P = 52 cells. The 36v one is 10S5P = 50 cells, so the 48v one has 4% more capacity. You have to count watt-hours, not amp-hours.

 

[Woosh]

The battery that Baneli listed in the first post is 48V 10.4V.
whichever way you look at it, a 1000W DD motor will suck at least 25A or 30A out of the battery depending on the controller at maximum power.
His bike will suffer terrible battery sag.
He'll really need a 48V 17AH battery for a 1000W kit.

 

[Swytch Bike]

The battery that Baneli listed in the first post is 48V 10.4V.
whichever way you look at it, a 1000W DD motor will suck at least 25A or 30A out of the battery depending on the controller at maximum power.
His bike will suffer terrible battery sag.
He'll really need a 48V 17AH battery for a 1000W kit.

All of our 48V batteries are supplied with a 30A BMS and good quality cells inside that can handle at least 20A discharge without blinking (1000W) and they are quite comfortable up to the 30A BMS limit for the short-medium periods that the controller will drain up to the maximum current of 28A that the controller is rated for, so 1000W is no problem with the batteries we supply , we wouldn't supply them otherwise

 

[Swytch Bike]

Yes where I ride is private land but off course getting there isn't, I can only ride safe, slow and be thoughtful of people and cars to not draw attention to myself but I understand if I get caught! I'm sure not sure if I should go for the 500 or 1000 as really the prices are the same but I don't really know the full difference of each... other then one being faster!

Don't forget the 1000W kit is direct drive whereas that 500W kit is geared which is an important consideration - all in all the 500W motor is better quality and better value for the money, and if you combine it with the 36V 16Ah battery with LG cells that we have (which incidentally has 30A BMS and is quite happy up to 750W peak power that the controller will delivery). I would recommend the 500W package as it is slightly more efficient also, at the expense of slightly less top end power.

 

[Woosh]

All of our 48V batteries are supplied with a 30A BMS and good quality cells inside that can handle at least 20A discharge without blinking

which cells do you use to have 20A discharge without blinking?

 

[Swytch Bike]

which cells do you use to have 20A discharge without blinking?

We use the LG m26 cells, 10A continuous discharge so with 3S or 4S it is quite happy with the 30A BMS

In fact I just double checked our specs, the 10.4Ah 48V battery has a 40A BMS, and the controller is 28A max current so it is quite comfortable

 

[Woosh]

In fact I just double checked our specs, the 10.4Ah 48V battery has a 40A BMS, and the controller is 28A max current so it is quite comfortable

It's not the BMS that causes the battery to sag, it's the internal impedance of the cells.
the spec sheet for the LG M26 cell is here if anyone is interested:
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/lg_M26.pdf

They quoted 60milli-Ohms or better.
On a string of 13 cells, that adds up to 13 x 60 milli-ohms, divided by 4 for the 13S4P array, 195milli-Ohms.
Figure how much sag you will get if you pull the full 28A through the battery with 0.195 Ohm internal impedance.

 

[Swytch Bike]

Hi Woosh - yes absolutely right I see the point you are making now. It's up to the customer if they want a more economical battery and if so we have a decent quality 7.8Ah 48V battery available. If they want 17Ah there are many options available too but it will cost more of course