Panasonic/Kalkhoff crank play

[tillson]

Hi looking at the forum Panasonic have major problems with the motor drive

The unit is now old fashion

Don't try to fix it yourselves Just return the bike for a new one

and Buyers looking for crank drive should look at the NEW Bosch powered bikes

they have had teething troubles but thy have fixed them

Frank

I'm trying to find a polite way to say that your post is a complete load of *******, but I'm struggling at the moment.

What experience of the Panasonic system is your contribution based upon? As far as I can tell, you only seem to be a seller of equipment that isn't suitable for the UK market and have no experience of, the legal, quality end of the market. Unless I have missed something.

The panasonic system has evolved and been refined over many years. I have found it to be totally reliable and resilliant to the rigours of long daily commutes in all weather conditions. There may be a few hicccups with the latest version as it eveolves even further, but it's certainly not old fashioned.

Your mis-guided post could steer someone away from a very good system that may suit them perfectly. I suggest that you remove it.

 

[flecc]

The Panasonic unit crank bolts need tightening after some initial miles in the same way that many other items such as spokes should be checked for slack after settling down. In other words, it's not a fault requiring return, merely a running in adjustment.

As for the new Bosch unit, many of them have already suffered a fault with the left hand crank falling off, and currently a solution is being sought for their very high degree of chain wear.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi tillson

SO the postings on this thread are all wrong paid good money and got a bike that

clicks and clonks

If as you say it is a lose motor a problem other members have had then when the bikes are pdi the should find the problem and tighten up the bolts

NOT good enough forum members looking at buying one should be
made aware off alternatives

Has your chain and Gears And Cogs never given you a problem

PS why have Kalkhoff now using BionX motors on there 2011 bikes

Frank

 

[tillson]

Hi tillson

SO the postings on this thread are all wrong paid good money and got a bike that

clicks and clonks

If as you say it is a lose motor a problem other members have had then when the bikes are pdi the should find the problem and tighten up the bolts

NOT good enough forum members looking at buying one should be
made aware off alternatives

Has your chain and Gears And Cogs never given you a problem

PS why have Kalkhoff now using BionX motors on there 2011 bikes

Frank

When new, my bike did suffer from the loose bolt problem. This isn't a pdi issue, when I initially took delivery of the bike it was fine. Nuts, bolts, cables and threads, "bed in" during the first few miles of use and unfortunately do become loose. This is normal and this is why it is important to check bolt tightness soon after delivery and then periodically thereafter. Some of the clunking reported within this thread could be attributed to this, or the perfectly normal float in the chain wheel.

I have no doubt that the odd motor unit may have slipped through QC and have problems with the pedal shaft, but this is no indication of a fundamental flaw.

As for my chain and cogs giving me a problem? The answer is no, I have covered over 9000 miles on the original chain and sprockets and I am still using them.

I don't know why Kalkhoff have decided to use Bionx. My guess would be to broaden the apeal of their range of bilkes by offering a quality, legal, hub motor variant. Something which will be alien to you.

 

[flecc]

Kalkhoff are offering a BionX model in addition to their range of Panasonic unit bikes, it's not a replacement through any dissatisfaction as you are implying Frank.

The Panasonic units have an enviable and well deserved reputation for reliability and nothing commented on in these threads is anything to do with the unit itself. Only the chain transmission under power has caused a problem, something common to all crank drive types, including the Bosch which has been wrecking chains within 3 months. Likewise we've had threads on the transmission problems with the Cyclone crank drives.

 

[NRG]

I'm trying to find a polite way to say that your post is a complete load of *******, but I'm struggling at the moment.

What experience of the Panasonic system is your contribution based upon? As far as I can tell, you only seem to be a seller of equipment that isn't suitable for the UK market and have no experience of, the legal, quality end of the market. Unless I have missed something.

The panasonic system has evolved and been refined over many years. I have found it to be totally reliable and resilliant to the rigours of long daily commutes in all weather conditions. There may be a few hicccups with the latest version as it eveolves even further, but it's certainly not old fashioned.

Your mis-guided post could steer someone away from a very good system that may suit them perfectly. I suggest that you remove it.

I couldn't agree more, seems Frank is somewhat out of touch and the level of BS in some postings is on the up.

 

[10mph]

If anyone knows which screw to remove and any tips for doing this I woul;d be grateful!

Maybe your left hand cowl is fixed the same way as the cowl on my Kalkhoff Agattu. If so, these pictures will be a help.

1. Take off pedal guard - one bolt visible from left through rear wheel spokes - then slide forward.

2. This will now reveal the single screw at rear of left cowl visible behind chain. Unscrew it then slide cowl firmly forward to disengage front tab.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

Now you are talking what you accused me off it started with B but as it is against forum rules

I wont repeat it if you tighten up bolts to a set torque using lock nuts or in the extreme loctite thread lock

Thing don't come lose if they did planes would fall out off the sky and cars would all beak down in the old days you had to return your car to have the cylinder head bolts tightened not any more the use bolts that stretch

Its called ENGINEERING

and when you spend that sort off money from a large company like Kalkoff you should expect It

By the way I don't blame 50 Cycles for the problem they are doing there job and correcting the problem No quibble and very promptly


Frank

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Flecc

How long before the turn to using Bosch Motors

It will be for one reason only German company support German products And keep there fellow countrymen

In employment

Frank

 

[flecc]

I wont repeat it if you tighten up bolts to a set torque using lock nuts or in the extreme loctite thread lock

This is not the case in this instance Frank. The motor mounts between cradle points on the painted frame, in which it's clamped with three bolts. The pedal forces can compress the paint further and result in some movement which is tightened as part of the normal running in post check.

As I've pointed out, on all bikes the same sort of checks apply to spokes, wheel trueness and V brake balance after a few miles of use. Traditional headstocks also commonly need tightening slightly due to the paint on the frame compressing under the pressure of bearing cups.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Flecc

In this case mask off the area before painting or spot drill after to remove the paint around the bolt hole it is a alloy frame so no corrosion problems

They paint cars and planes

ENGINEERING

And if we don't talk about the problem then how can the manufacture fix it


Frank

 

[NRG]

Frank you have a point but as Flecc points out its not always as simple as that.. here is a good article and video that shows, even with 'appropriate' locking, bolts can (and do) still work loose...

Vibration Loosening of Bolts and Threaded Fasteners

Video on a Junker Fastener Vibration Test

BTW Frank, I'm an ex aircraft engineer and I can assure you bolts on planes work loose but don't let that put you off flying to your summer hols

 

[banbury frank]

Hi NRG

Yes there are problems with all fixing but when you find the problem you FIX it

and we are talking about a Toy 250 watt bike motor not 1,000 off horse power

I bet if you went to the factory it would take you 10 minutes to solve the issues off lose bolts
By the way i worked on this building when I did my apprenticeship in a steel works as a welder

Aviva Tower: 1 Undershaft, London, England, EC3


They erected the center core off concrete including the lift shafts

Then assembled the top floor then lifted it to the top then lifted the next floor and so on

We used Turn bolts when sent to the stores to get some I thought they where taking the Micky No turn bolts have a ground shaft very accurate then assembled all the holes where rearmed ever joint no play in the holes

we worked to 1/6 over 100 feet No lasers in those days long tapes witch you had to pull to tension with a spring balance depending on the temp straight lines stretched piano wire

and special washer that had dimples punched into them so you stopped when the washer was flat so ever bolt was set to a torque 100, thousands off bolts still standing





Frank

 

[tillson]

Thing don't come lose if they did planes would fall out off the sky and cars would all beak down in the old days you had to return your car to have the cylinder head bolts tightened not any more the use bolts that stretch.

Tomorrow, I start a run of 7 shifts flying a helicopter. At times, this will be quite low over densely populated areas. On Monday the 8th, it is scheduled to have it's 100 hour service. Shall I advise the airframe fitter not to bother with the critical checks, some of which are bolt torques?

Its called ENGINEERING

Errr no, its certainly not that. If I were you Frank, I wouldn't stretch myself beyond the workings of an anvil.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Ask you airframe fitter he will tell you how to fix the problem in 5 minutes flat

Again he is dealing with 1,000 off horse power and massive G forces and Wilde vibration issue

not a Toy 250 watt motor

And I admire these guys they are like surgeons the way they work because lives are at stake

I am also jellos off your job

it used to be ever boys dream to be a steam train driver it is now a pilot


Frank

 

[flecc]

Frank, I didn't bother to answer further since it's obvious you have an agenda to attack the Panasonic unit.

It's one thing for a trader to promote their products in here, it's quite another for one to also attack another's product, behaviour which is totally unacceptable.

Many decades ago it was recognised that criticism of rival products is not only unproductive, it is unethical. As a result no decent company indulges in this practice today.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Flecc

If the cap fits

It is not the fault off the Panasonic Motor bolts working lose It is Kalkhoff for not mounting the motor right by removing the excessive paint from the bike frame

It is only 50 Cycles Fantastic product support that fixes the problem

Is it Kalkhoff fault if it is not pointed out to them so they can fix it

it must be happening on all there bikes fitted with a Panasonic motor



Frank

 

[flecc]

You are still a trader attacking a rival product Frank, and that is completely unacceptable.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Flecc

The if PC with the Panasonic motor is so perfect

what is this tread about buyers are having problems with 2 week old bikes

SO if the cap fits

I will now stop leaving messages on this thread as I only hope it lets buyers no about the problems and gave them an alternative

Did in No way Recommend MY product I said the Bosch don't have this problem

Frank

 

[NRG]

Frank, I don't wish to pick a fight but you are assuming there is an inherent fault, this is clearly unproven. If it was ALL Kalkhoff bikes would be affected at some point as would, presumably, all the other manufacturers who use the same Panasonic unit.

I've just checked my bike, the motor unit is not loose and the bolts are tight as they where shipped from the factory, I fear you have a motive here and are fabricating an answer of 5 from the sum 2+2. Attacking a fellow trade members product is also bad form as pointed out and I'm not sure what your motivation for this is...and, with respect, its worth remembering that you still advertise illegal ebikes and kits on your web site and will still allow customers to test these on the open road.