Panasonic compact rear hub motor.

[richard power]

Hello again, I recently Fitted a torque sensor on my KTM E-Style P. The bike is in it's sixth year and has 12000 mls on it. I have noticed that my battery is losing capacity and she cuts off with 17% remaining on the monitor so she is only holding 83% charge now. Can anyone tell me how quickly the my battery will loose capacity ? Also how long should a rear hub motor last , would it be good for another 12000 mls ?
I am trying to figure out whether to invest in another battery , I am waiting on a quote but I am expecting the price to be about €600 . That would bring the total spend to €800 approx.

 

[vfr400]

Hub motors can go for huge mileages as long as you don't let water in or damage the cable.

 

[Nealh]

The KTM hub if not mistaken is a compact hight torque D/D so should last for ever as it has no moving parts.
it is possible to re cell the battery if the bms is kept live by wiring a temporary power source in parallel to the bms before disconnecting the old cell pack.

 

[flecc]

The KTM hub if not mistaken is a compact hight torque D/D so should last for ever as it has no moving parts.

I had been under that impression too, but d8veh once posted that is is internally geared. I can't confirm that, but it would account for it's prodigious climbing ability.

However, being Panasonic and knowing the longevity of their crank units and their policy on bike assist motors, I'd expect that hub motor to be very long lived.
.

 

[richard power]

Hub motors can go for huge mileages as long as you don't let water in or damage the cable.

Thanks , that's good to hear ! Should hub motors be greased do you think ?

 

[vfr400]

Most geared hub-motors have nylon-based gears. I'm not sure whether the Panasonic's gears are plastic or metal, but judging by the noise, I'd say plastic. Plastic gears don't need lubrication. That leaves the bearings. A Bafang hub-motor is expected to last 30,000 miles, but inconsistent manufacturing procedures and components can be seen to contribute to much earlier failures. Panasonic, have a much better reputation for quality control, so if I had one, I'd be happy to let it go 30,000 miles before opening it unless I could hear some signs of something needing attention, though a regrease will never do any harm as long as you use the correct grease. I tendto leave my motors alone as long as they sound OK. There was only one that needed a regrease due to a manufacturing problem.

Out of all the motors that I repaired, none needed a regrease. All the failures were hall sensors caused by external problems, damaged motor cables, collapsed sealed bearings or water ingress. The collapsed bearings were probably because they were poor quality or damaged by water ingress.

Most bearings can be replaced if they get worn out. It's just the gears that are probably irreplaceable. The problem is that the motor is fairly unique, so it's a difficult call.

You can get the battery re-celled for about £250 - £300. You don't need to spend £600 on a new one. Whichever bike you get, you have to factor in battery costs in the long term running costs.

 

[Woosh]

The KTM hub if not mistaken is a compact hight torque D/D so should last for ever as it has no moving parts.
it is possible to re cell the battery if the bms is kept live by wiring a temporary power source in parallel to the bms before disconnecting the old cell pack.

If I remember correctly, the Panasonic hub motor has a two stage planetary gear without a clutch. It should last a very long time because no clutch = less to fail.

 

[Nealh]

If I remember correctly, the Panasonic hub motor has a two stage planetary gear without a clutch. It should last a very long time because no clutch = less to fail.

Thanks for the info Tony seems to back up that which VFR has said and it is a geared hub and not a D/D as I have always thought.

 

[vfr400]

Its a geared direct drive motor, i.e. the motor is engaged at all times, like when your Bafang clutch sticks on.

 

[Nealh]

That's cleared things up a bit.

 

[richard power]

Most geared hub-motors have nylon-based gears. I'm not sure whether the Panasonic's gears are plastic or metal, but judging by the noise, I'd say plastic. Plastic gears don't need lubrication. That leaves the bearings. A Bafang hub-motor is expected to last 30,000 miles, but inconsistent manufacturing procedures and components can be seen to contribute to much earlier failures. Panasonic, have a much better reputation for quality control, so if I had one, I'd be happy to let it go 30,000 miles before opening it unless I could hear some signs of something needing attention, though a regrease will never do any harm as long as you use the correct grease. I tendto leave my motors alone as long as they sound OK. There was only one that needed a regrease due to a manufacturing problem.

Out of all the motors that I repaired, none needed a regrease. All the failures were hall sensors caused by external problems, damaged motor cables, collapsed sealed bearings or water ingress. The collapsed bearings were probably because they were poor quality or damaged by water ingress.

Most bearings can be replaced if they get worn out. It's just the gears that are probably irreplaceable. The problem is that the motor is fairly unique, so it's a difficult call.

You can get the battery re-celled for about £250 - £300. You don't need to spend £600 on a new one. Whichever bike you get, you have to factor in battery costs in the long term running costs.

Thanks ever so much for that info , that's exactly what I needed to know. The bike's really well made and now that you have reassured me about the hub motors I wont hesitate to buy the new battery. I will go for the new one rather that a re-cell, as the second battery would be great to have on the longer rides. Perhaps in the future I can have the older one re-celled. Thank a lot for sharing your knowledge with me as It's difficult to get an informed opinion where I live as everyone is fairly new to the e-bike scene. best regards … Richie

 

[richard power]

Hi again, Can anyone tell me If a 46.8v 12Ah 562Wh battery (KTM 2016 E-Street P) will be compatible with my bike ,46.8v 8.8Ah 412Wh (KTM 2013 E-Style P) ? Richie.

 

[Nealh]

If the battery docking and pins outs/ polarity are the same then it will work.
The battery will give more range and hold the voltage higher for longer.

 

[Wicky]

I believe so - but best check with Col at www.flidistribution.co.uk

 

[jdallan]

Hi again, Can anyone tell me If a 46.8v 12Ah 562Wh battery (KTM 2016 E-Street P) will be compatible with my bike ,46.8v 8.8Ah 412Wh (KTM 2013 E-Style P) ? Richie.

I'm sure it will be compatible. I had an E-Style P and considered buying the 562Wh battery. I was advised by my dealer that the batteries were interchangeable, the problem (at that time - some years ago) would be obtaining the 562 Wh battery. I eventually bought the E-StreetP.

Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[richard power]

If the battery docking and pins outs/ polarity are the same then it will work.
The battery will give more range and hold the voltage higher for longer.

Thanks Nealh … I'll see if I can get one.

 

[richard power]

I believe so - but best check with Col at www.flidistribution.co.uk

Thanks Wicky … I will contact contact Colin.

 

[richard power]

I'm sure it will be compatible. I had an E-Style P and considered buying the 562Wh battery. I was advised by my dealer that the batteries were interchangeable, the problem (at that time - some years ago) would be obtaining the 562 Wh battery. I eventually bought the E-StreetP.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Thanks Jim .. I'm going to try and get one !

 

[Asperical]

Hi, I hope I'm allowed to ask here...
I'm the proud owner of a 5 year old E-Race P (since new) and my battery is showing a reduced capacity having completed around 3000 miles. Does anyone know where to obtain a "Re-Cell", or a reasonably priced replacement battery?
Many thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Wicky]

There's a later 500W/h version of the early 400 battery available from UK KTM distributor

http://flidistribution.co.uk or if you have a seach there's a London based company that can possibly recell the battery.