Looking (I hope) some time into the future, is there any way of avoiding the seemingly hefty cost of a new battery for the Agattu? I believe I have read about re-celling batteries or changing them to Nickel Hydride and so on. I had not quite realised just how much battery replacement compromised the cheap running of electric bikes.
Panasonic battery for Agattu
- Thread starter tgame
- Start date
Re-celling lithium batteries isn't a practical option, since there's complex electronics inside the battery as well as cells.
Changing to NiMh would lose range, plus the difficulty of making a new case to take the cells. There would also be a loss of performance since an NiMh based one would have somewhat lower voltage.
The price would be very little less at present, and quality NiMh prices are rising as they become more scarce.
The 500 charges that I know you are concerned about isn't an absolute, no-one knows exactly how many your battery might take until they have been around long enough. It is also 500 full charges, part charges counting as such.
The battery is guaranteed for two years, so for a weekday commuter that's a little over two years after allowing for holidays etc, assuming they use the entire battery content daily.
Basically, if the battery lives up to that, it's 2 pence per mile battery cost based on a 30 mile range, cheaper than any other vehicle bar a normal bike, and possibly cheaper than walking, given the poor quality of so much modern footwear.
The electricity cost per mile is far too low to express.
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Changing to NiMh would lose range, plus the difficulty of making a new case to take the cells. There would also be a loss of performance since an NiMh based one would have somewhat lower voltage.
The price would be very little less at present, and quality NiMh prices are rising as they become more scarce.
The 500 charges that I know you are concerned about isn't an absolute, no-one knows exactly how many your battery might take until they have been around long enough. It is also 500 full charges, part charges counting as such.
The battery is guaranteed for two years, so for a weekday commuter that's a little over two years after allowing for holidays etc, assuming they use the entire battery content daily.
Basically, if the battery lives up to that, it's 2 pence per mile battery cost based on a 30 mile range, cheaper than any other vehicle bar a normal bike, and possibly cheaper than walking, given the poor quality of so much modern footwear.
The electricity cost per mile is far too low to express.
.
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sorry to sidetrack a little on the thread...but why do they get a 2 year battery warranty and us 6 months..we are lithium too are we not ???
Very different system Keith.
The Panasonic motor unit is low powered and has very well regulated consumption. It stresses a battery far less than the usage on your bike for example. There's no throttle to wack open, the rider is forced to assist, not just turn the pedals but actually match or nearly match what the motor does, so the battery has a cushy time in comparison.
You are typically draining as much as three times the current when you don't pedal on your high powered bike, so the battery gets quite a bashing. At present, only a very brave or foolhardy supplier would give a two year warranty on a battery that's so subject to what the user does to it.
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The Panasonic motor unit is low powered and has very well regulated consumption. It stresses a battery far less than the usage on your bike for example. There's no throttle to wack open, the rider is forced to assist, not just turn the pedals but actually match or nearly match what the motor does, so the battery has a cushy time in comparison.
You are typically draining as much as three times the current when you don't pedal on your high powered bike, so the battery gets quite a bashing. At present, only a very brave or foolhardy supplier would give a two year warranty on a battery that's so subject to what the user does to it.
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Thanks, Flecc. It's rather easy to understand that the battery must contain a fair chunk of electronic wizardry. It really is a bit staggering that such a relatively small case holds 20+ miles worth. When one compares the size of the lead acid batteries that buggies seem to all use the mind rather boggles.
One reads about nanotubes and other magical innovations that seem to regularly crop up in assorted laboratories. I wonder what or whether anything will eventually turn up to solve the storage problem. It could so easily be something that we don't even dream about at the moment.
Yes - and the charger for the Panasonic is a delightfully neat little affair.
I have very little information about the proper treatment for this charger. Is there anything I should be aware of particularly. When and how best to switch it on and off for instance?
good point Flecc....and hearig that i am in the best position i can be...i didnt go electric to start pedeling again..lol.....however on saying that i think its about time i tried it out and saw what pedal assist is about, i do know at traffic lights ect when i pedal off and power it as well it must look pretty good cos i have good reaction time on the lights...too much watching drag racing...thats cras and not men dressed in dresses... ...
i suppose with hindsight if i get 500 charges to my battery thatworks out at 0.0285 pence per mile...and looking at it like that..WOW the batter ies are dead cheap are they not...
...i suppose with hindsight if i get 500 charges to my battery thatworks out at 0.0285 pence per mile...and looking at it like that..WOW the batter
ies are dead cheap are they not...
Only that the battery should not be left plugged into the charger for very long periods after the lights go out when the charge is complete. An hour or two is ok, but never more than 48 hours. Don't ask me why that odd figure, it's what Panasonic say and I've little idea why. It's also best to unplug or switch off at the mains too.
As for the future, LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries promise many more charges, at least 1000 and more likely to be over 2000. They are up and running now in top power tools, but it's not proving easy to translate that into e-bike sizes at an acceptable cost at present.
It will happen though, and the Panasonic system will almost certainly be an early adopter since it's power management is so good and well suited to getting the best out of any battery technology.
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I'm afraid you have the decimal point misplaced Keithi suppose with hindsight if i get 500 charges to my battery thatworks out at 0.0285 pence per mile...and looking at it like that..WOW the batter
It's 0.0285 pounds per mile, or 2.85 pence per mile.
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Who knows. Perhaps some latterday Fleming is already examining a petri dish in which some new bacterium is converting human sweat directly into electricity. Then pedelec controllers could also be much simpler. Only when one was suitably sweating under effort would electricity be available to help one cool off!!
Enjoy your new bike, Keith. It sounds as if you already are getting a lot out of it!
I'm a cynic where batteries are concerned Tony, born of a lifetime of failed promises from the industry.Who knows. Perhaps some latterday Fleming is already examining a petri dish in which some new bacterium is converting human sweat directly into electricity. Then pedelec controllers could also be much simpler. Only when one was suitably sweating under effort would electricity be available to help one cool off!!
The fact is that for the most common high current use we have, car batteries, we are still using nineteenth century accumulator technology in the twenty-first century, the first type ever invented. Nothing else is good enough, reliable enough, or cheap enough.
So much for progress.
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told you i was intelligence deficent..lol..however at 2.5 pence per mile i still think thats pretty good..I'm afraid you have the decimal point misplaced Keith
It's 0.0285 pounds per mile, or 2.85 pence per mile.
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a 20 mile journey for 50pence,...i was at my mums today and she said i shall drp you off home, dont bother i said it takes me no time at all...in fact it turns out it was much faster then going in her car by the time i had folded and put into boot and strapped it up or it rolls off the stand onto the cog wheel...its 1.87 miles by car to my house..i left hers at 1510 and got to my front door 1517,,,,,a different way the car would not be able to go.....so for 4.275 pence it was a dam sight cheaper then her car and loads faster....YAY ELECTRIC BIKES !!!!!!!!
....YAY ELECTRIC BIKES !!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
dam electricbikes.... 3 bloody weeks with new electric bike and im sounding like a child now
[/QUOTE]dam electricbikes....
3 bloody weeks with new electric bike and im sounding like a child now Memories of swatting up the Leclancé cell at school for second year physics... The potential rewards are so great that I suppose all the research possible has already been done. It will probably need a complete new breakthrough and what the possibility of that is, is anybodies guess.I'm a cynic where batteries are concerned Tony, born of a lifetime of failed promises from the industry.
The fact is that for the most common high current use we have, car batteries, we are still using nineteenth century accumulator technology in the twenty-first century, the first type ever invented. Nothing else is good enough, reliable enough, or cheap enough.
So much for progress.
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One can't estimate the chances of a fuel cell coming along. There is so much flannel around the subject. It would of course be the almost perfect answer for us if cheap and long-lived enough.
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