panasonic 18ah battery.

[gerryscott]

hi everybody, I was just wondering about the new panasonic 18ah battery.When it first came out there was quite of lot of excitement about it, but now we hear very little.I would like to do some touring, and it is a battery I was seriously thinking about.Has anybody that has the battery getting near the distance it claims to give?.Also do the e-bikers in the know have doubts about it's longer life claim.I'm not keen on paying £500 for battery that's only going to give me 2 good years.4 years yes.

 

[tillson]

hi everybody, I was just wondering about the new panasonic 18ah battery.When it first came out there was quite of lot of excitement about it, but now we hear very little.I would like to do some touring, and it is a battery I was seriously thinking about.Has anybody that has the battery getting near the distance it claims to give?.Also do the e-bikers in the know have doubts about it's longer life claim.I'm not keen on paying £500 for battery that's only going to give me 2 good years.4 years yes.

I don't think it is available in the UK yet. 50 Cycles web site states Spring 2011.

As far as the claims of extended life are concerned, I am sceptical. The original Panasonic battery fell well short of the claimed life. I have not seen any indication of an enhancement to the guarantee to match the enhanced claims regarding the new battery, so if the manufacturer has doubts, so do I.

Ps. Having said this, I'll probably buy one because I am a sucker and I have no alternative.

 

[eddieo]

Yes until claims backed up with a decent warrenty I would stay well clear....

 

[WALKERMAN]

I just took delivery of a ProConnect Disc last Friday which has this battery fitted. I charged it fully and used it the first two days doing a total of 28 miles on medium setting with some high setting for a few hills. There was 2 lights remaining on the battery indicator. I will run it down possibly over the weekend as this is the conditioning phase.
I will let you know how it does next week.

My older ProConnect has the origional 25 month old battery fitted and was barely doing the 14 miles commute when the single light was flashing. They seem to be only good for the two years.

I do have a 16T rear sprocket fitted which will affect the total mileage.

hi everybody, I was just wondering about the new panasonic 18ah battery.When it first came out there was quite of lot of excitement about it, but now we hear very little.I would like to do some touring, and it is a battery I was seriously thinking about.Has anybody that has the battery getting near the distance it claims to give?.Also do the e-bikers in the know have doubts about it's longer life claim.I'm not keen on paying £500 for battery that's only going to give me 2 good years.4 years yes.

 

[kraeuterbutter]

in the German pedelec-forum where some reports about this battery,
also from some bike-dealers

in the extra energie-bike-test-magazin was also a test..

it turned out, that the drivable distances are comparable with the 12Ah Battery flyer cells...

so the cells seem to have lot less usable Ah than stated..
maybe you get only a lot out of them when you use them very gently with not too much currents

 

[flecc]

The 18 Ah is not a Panasonic battery, it's made by German battery company BMZ, so an unknown quantity at present since it's only now being introduced.

The original 10 Ah Panasonic battery is still in use by a number of Kalkhoff owners at well past the two year warranty period, in some of the light use cases at three years old now. As ever though, the life of a battery is very dependent on the amount and conditions of usage and Tillson's experience does not seem to have been so good.

in the German pedelec-forum where some reports about this battery,
also from some bike-dealers

in the extra energie-bike-test-magazin was also a test..

it turned out, that the drivable distances are comparable with the 12Ah Battery flyer cells...

so the cells seem to have lot less usable Ah than stated..
maybe you get only a lot out of them when you use them very gently with not too much currents

This is exactly what I would expect with a higher declared capacity stuffed into the same space. There is no "something for nothing" in battery technology, smaller volume means either less stated capacity or the higher declared capacity dependent on gentle low current rate usage.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

OK, so if you need to replace a 10 Ah Panasonic battery, what do you choose? I chose an 18 Ah BMZ when offerd at the Kalkhoff demonstrators price, so if it is at least as good as the 10 Ah Panasonic has been, and hopefully better, I will be pleased.

J hn

 

[tillson]

When I buy my 18 Ah battery, I will be only be pleased if it accepts 1100 charge cycles or still has 60% of it's capacity (that is performs better than a new 10 Ah Panasonic battery) after 5 years. That is what is being claimed by the supplier / manufacturer, so am I being unreasonable by expecting this?

Making outrageous claims is in no ones interest, and I do hope that this 18Ah battery isn't just another box full of disappointment.

 

[NRG]

.....
This is exactly what I would expect with a higher declared capacity stuffed into the same space. There is no "something for nothing" in battery technology, smaller volume means either less stated capacity or the higher declared capacity dependent on gentle low current rate usage.
.

I wonder if this maybe the reason behind the very strange decision by Kalkhoff not to introduce the 12Ah to the UK...This would be a great direct replacement for the 10Ah...

 

[WALKERMAN]

I read the following in 'Newelectronics' about the latest technology for electric cars......... 'charging a Li ion battery to 100% or discharging to 0% will degrade its capacity, so it needs a restricted state of charge, such as 20% to 80%. This means the useable capacity is only 60% of the specified capacity.

Are we charging our batteries correctly then?

 

[Cyclezee]

This is exactly what I would expect with a higher declared capacity stuffed into the same space.

I was under the impression that the case housing the the 18 Ah BMZ battery is larger than that housing the Panasonic 10 Ah version? Is anyone able compare the dimensions of both types?

J hn

 

[tillson]

I read the following in 'Newelectronics' about the latest technology for electric cars......... 'charging a Li ion battery to 100% or discharging to 0% will degrade its capacity, so it needs a restricted state of charge, such as 20% to 80%. This means the useable capacity is only 60% of the specified capacity.

Are we charging our batteries correctly then?

I believe that the BMS on our Panasonic batteries prevents them from being charged to 100% if their theoretical true capacity, or to be discharged to 0% for the very reasons outlined in your post. Because, unlike cars, our batteries need to be small and light weight, there isn't the luxury to remain within the 20 to 80% charge region. There wouldn't be enough useful range for us. I suspect that an ebike battery eats into the 20% margin by a considerable amount and this is partly the reason why they deteriorate quickly.

 

[Biged]

I was under the impression that the case housing the the 18 Ah BMZ battery is larger than that housing the Panasonic 10 Ah version? Is anyone able compare the dimensions of both types?

J hn

Looked exactly the same to me when i saw them side by side in December, i was told they were the same size and a straight swap?

 

[flecc]

I was under the impression that the case housing the the 18 Ah BMZ battery is larger than that housing the Panasonic 10 Ah version? Is anyone able compare the dimensions of both types?

J hn

I don't think so. The 15 Ah Panasonic battery is wider, which is why it won't fit without mods and widened cranks.
.

 

[WALKERMAN]

I was under the impression that the case housing the the 18 Ah BMZ battery is larger than that housing the Panasonic 10 Ah version? Is anyone able compare the dimensions of both types?

J hn

The 18 Ah battery does look bigger due to a taller handle but the only real increase is in the width which is 130mm compared to 115mm for the 10 Ah. This makes it look like it is sticking out and to me looks less streamlined and more obvious.

The 18 Ah weighs 3.2 kg compared to 2.4 kg for the 10 Ah.

I was told the 18 Ah was interchangeable with my old ProConnect.

 

[Cyclezee]

The 18 Ah battery does look bigger due to a taller handle but the only real increase is in the width which is 130mm compared to 115mm for the 10 Ah. This makes it look like it is sticking out and to me looks less streamlined and more obvious.

The 18 Ah weighs 3.2 kg compared to 2.4 kg for the 10 Ah.

I was told the 18 Ah was interchangeable with my old ProConnect.

With those dimensions, it fit should the whole Kalkhoff range, but there could be a problem with the 45cm small wave frame Agattu, as there is only just enough height for the standard battery on the model. I guess the thing to do is check with 50cycles first.

J hn

 

[10mph]

With those dimensions, it fit should the whole Kalkhoff range, but there could be a problem with the 45cm small wave frame Agattu, as there is only just enough height for the standard battery on the model. I guess the thing to do is check with 50cycles first.

When I had my test ride of a 45cm frame stepthru Agattu C3, an 8Ah battery was on the demo bike in the shop, and I was discussing getting a larger capacity battery. 50cycles showed me how one of the new 18Ah batteries just plugged in place of the 8Ah one. I found it remarkable that all that extra capacity was possible in the restricted space, which was behind my question about whether the new battery would fit. I did not notice that the 18Ah battery was slightly wider. I suppose I did not look closely enough. Anyway I went off for my test ride with the 18Ah installed and there were no problems.