Oxygen e-bike is the best bike on GBP 1,500.00 range?

[londonbrl]

Hi all,

Live in London and quite tired of the stressful tube routine every day, so very interesting in purchasing an e-bike.

My commute will be not more than 7km each way on a mainly flat road, the only issue I will face are buses and withe vans on rush hour.

After some research I am incline in go for the Oxygen SCross CB e-bike, however they don't seem as reliable as other contenders like Cube Acid Hybrid 500 and Raleigh Motus.

Is Oxygen still the best bike in the GB 1,500.00 price range considering I could still purchase the thumb throttle or even derestrict it?

 

[garyten]

the Rio LS is sold out 10 days ago, new arrival next March.
If you are over 6ft, I would recommend the new Camino, below 6ft, the Rio MTB.
Both are good for riders weight up to 17st.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-mtb
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?camino

Ive noticed the new CAMINO has a new type of motor, Its a Shengyi ?

I will assume its similar to the Bafang swx02, as it looks smaller in the pictures.

Apart from cost/size, whats the main mechanical difference, between the two? Rio vs Camino.

There is not a lot of info on the Shengyi motors, they don't seem to have much presence outside of China.
Are they similar to Bafang in build quality and performance?

Sorry for all the questions, i just picked up on the change of brand, and im thinking, its mainly a cost issue.

I would be interested to hear from on any one with working knowledge of Shengyi motors in use.

 

[Woosh]

ve noticed the new CAMINO has a new type of motor, Its a Shengyi ?

I will assume its similar to the Bafang swx02, as it looks smaller in the pictures.

it's a smaller and cheaper motor.

Apart from cost/size, whats the main mechanical difference, between the two? Rio vs Camino.

Main difference is weight and torque.
the Camino uses a cheaper Suntour NEX fork and cheaper crankset.
The NEX fork is just as durable but about 1kg heavier.
The crankset uses square bottom bracket, is about 300g heavier.
In building the Camino, I've improved on water protection. The only exposed cable and liable to rust is the gear shifter and it is limited to the top section near the handlebars, the bulk of the shifter cable is routed inside the frame.
The Camino is as near a perfect commuter bike for the average 6ft rider as I can make: good gear ratio, good range, good brakes, good comfort, good price and very little maintenance.

I would be interested to hear from on any one with working knowledge of Shengyi motors in use.

Shengyi is a very large and trustworthy motor manufacturers.

http://www.syimotor.com/about.html

 

[garyten]

it's a smaller and cheaper motor.


Main difference is weight and torque.
the Camino uses a cheaper Suntour NEX fork and cheaper crankset.
The NEX fork is just as durable but about 1kg heavier.
The crankset uses square bottom bracket, is about 300g heavier.
In building the Camino, I've improved on water protection. The only exposed cable and liable to rust is the gear shifter and it is limited to the top section near the handlebars, the bulk of the shifter cable is routed inside the frame.
The Camino is as near a perfect commuter bike for the average 6ft rider as I can make: good gear ratio, good range, good brakes, good comfort, good price and very little maintenance.




Shengyi is a very large and trustworthy motor manufacturers.

http://www.syimotor.com/about.html

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

I agree, its a near perfect commuter, i only noticed the size of the motor from the pictures, and became curious, then i read the specs, and noticed the name Shengyi.

I'm wondering how much torque difference there is, as there are no figures i can find for Shengyi.

Im liking this, it could be a winner for a longer range commute / tour, and the Matt paint looks reallly well.

 

[Woosh]

I'm wondering how much torque difference there is, as there are no figures i can find for Shengyi.

Shengyi DCW07CMD: 40NM-42NM (depending on wheel size).
The SWX02 on the Rio gives 45NM-50NM (smaller wheel = bigger torque at low speed).
You can feel the difference in acceleration from standing still.
Top speed is the same, restricted and derestricted.

 

[garyten]

That's great , thanks for the info.

This might sound silly, but, does the size/torque of the motor, reduce the power consumption from the battery if its smaller / less torque?
In other words does its battery last longer.

 

[Woosh]

That's great , thanks for the info.

This might sound silly, but, does the size/torque of the motor, reduce the power consumption from the battery if its smaller / less torque?
In other words does its battery last longer.

the torque figure has little effect on battery consumption other than the fact that motors like the SWX02 make you a bit lazy, so you tend to pedal a bit less, they up battery consumption a little. We are talking about 9-10WH/mile for the Shengyi instead of 10-11WH/mile for the SWX02 on the Rio.

 

[vfr400]

That's great , thanks for the info.

This might sound silly, but, does the size/torque of the motor, reduce the power consumption from the battery if its smaller / less torque?
In other words does its battery last longer.

Those torque figures are bullshit. In any motor, torque is proportional to current. In the case of our three-phase motors, torque is also proportional to voltage. Therefore, a motor doesn't give a prescribed amount of torque. If you buy a kit with a battery and controller, then it's possible to say what the maximum torque is likely to be, but you can't do that for a motor on its own, since they have no idea what controller you're going to use.

Your battery holds a certain amount of power. You can take it out slowly and make it last a long time or take it out quickly to go fast. Power is torque times speed, so you can have massive torque with a very low speed to use the same power as low torque and high speed. The size of the motor has no affect on this. What matters is the motor's speed (gearing and windings) and how much current your controller gives it.

 

[Woosh]

Those torque figures are bullshit.

the figures I gave are for the bikes quoted above at maximum power.
They have the same 36V 17A controller.
People sometimes misunderstand torque, so let me expand a little on this.
You have one important point in the measurements of a motor's performance: where the maximum power is delivered.
Torque measured either side of this point needs to be put into context, for example, torque at no load speed is zero, all the work is done by your legs. Torque at stalling is higher than what I quoted but meaningless because the bike does not move.

 

[Chainring]

Ive noticed the new CAMINO has a new type of motor, Its a Shengyi ?

I will assume its similar to the Bafang swx02, as it looks smaller in the pictures.

Apart from cost/size, whats the main mechanical difference, between the two? Rio vs Camino.

There is not a lot of info on the Shengyi motors, they don't seem to have much presence outside of China.
Are they similar to Bafang in build quality and performance?

Sorry for all the questions, i just picked up on the change of brand, and im thinking, its mainly a cost issue.

I would be interested to hear from on any one with working knowledge of Shengyi motors in use.

I have just wiped the dirt off my motor, and that is a Shengyi. I bought it from Panda over four years and 12,000 miles ago. It's still quiet, pulls well and gets me where I want to go every day. I saw a video on this firm, and was surprised how big they are. They make a centre-drive motor as well.

 

[vfr400]

Thanks again, to all for the info, i understand more about the Shengyi motor, and for the OP above for his 12000 mile report, great stuff,
I did find a video on Shengyi, by an American / Canadian, on a sponsored tour of the factory, the testing looks like they are really trying to push them motors to their limit.

Link to video = HERE

Thanks to Woosh, for your technical spec and knowledge, especially regarding the 36V 17A controller.
The comparison you gave was perfect for me, two different motors being fed by the same 17A controller.

I do understand the torque figures are only relevant to the input, to the motor, i wanted a comparison of the two models of bike, in this instance, but i now understand that the motor can be pushed harder with more current, but not for me, i dont understand enough about electric motors to play that game.

I'm a engine person, and electric motors are a bit strange to me, with their input / output figures and how its converted into motion.

the figures I gave are for the bikes quoted above at maximum power.
They have the same 36V 17A controller.
People sometimes misunderstand torque,

You're mistaken in what you say in your first sentence.
Use the simulator to study the torque curve. You'd be lucky to get 20NM at maximum power.
Www.ebikes.ca/simulator

 

[Woosh]

You're mistaken in what you say in your first sentence.

Sorry for the late reply, I had to go to the doctors'.

You should keep an eye on the legal speed limit. You are not supposed to use maximum power on a flat road.

The only time that you need to have the maximum power on the bike is when you climb a steep hill.
If you use the motor simulator at ebikes.ca, then you need to set the motor type to Bafang BPM, custom controller to 17A 36V and the gradient to about 15% to achieve about 7mph climbing speed for the Rio
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MBPM&cont=cust_17_70_0.03_V&grade=15&axis=mph
You should read around 47NM for the Rio's SWX02.

set the gradient to 14% to achieve 8mph climbing speed for the Camino, motor to Bafang MG310.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG310_STD&cont=cust_17_70_0.03_V&grade=14&axis=mph
You should read around 42NM

Maximum torque produced at the motor wheel varies with gradient, that is why I give a small range to suit practical observations. Torque can be misunderstood by a lot of people.

 

[Martin56]

The King Meter double power converter is not essential, a simple manual switch will do the job. The Camino looks nice, I imagine you could fit a double front chainring quite easily..

 

[Woosh]

I imagine you could fit a double front chainring quite easily..

yes, it's standard square taper bottom bracket so it's an easy swap out. However, with a rear hub motor, there is little need to change gear, the default 8-speed should be enough.
Some customers fit 50T single ring to suit their cadence.

 

[garyten]

Thanks again, to all for the info, i understand more about the Shengyi motor, and for the OP above for his 12000 mile report, great stuff,
I did find a video on Shengyi, by an American / Canadian, on a sponsored tour of the factory, the testing looks like they are really trying to push them motors to their limit.

Link to video = HERE

Thanks to Woosh, for your technical spec and knowledge, especially regarding the 36V 17A controller.
The comparison you gave was perfect for me, two different motors being fed by the same 17A controller.

I do understand the torque figures are only relevant to the input, to the motor, i wanted a comparison of the two models of bike, in this instance, but i now understand that the motor can be pushed harder with more current, but not for me, i dont understand enough about electric motors to play that game.

I'm a engine person, and electric motors are a bit strange to me, with their input / output figures and how its converted into motion.