Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors

[soundwave]

there so confident in the impulse motor they will not offer a money back Guarantee if the motor fails once.

and that says it all tbh the motors are not fit for purpose. its now been going on for 3 fkn years going on 4 if it was going to get fixed then it would have been sorted buy now.

 

[brunobensaid]

there so confident in the impulse motor they will not offer a money back Guarantee if the motor fails once.

and that says it all tbh the motors are not fit for purpose. its now been going on for 3 fkn years going on 4 if it was going to get fixed then it would have been sorted buy now.

Totally hear you...

 

[EddiePJ]

there so confident in the impulse motor they will not offer a money back Guarantee if the motor fails once.

I can't see any of the other leading makes of drive unit offering that guarantee either, and why would they.

 

[soundwave]

Neither will any of the leading makes of drive unit.

yeah but then again they have more than 1 that lasted the 2 year warranty.

either way if i bought a bike with a impulse drive and it failed even 1 time id demand my money back or see them in court.

there is more than enough proof on here and the German site to back this up that the motor is not fit for purpose. endless motor replacements is not an option.

 

[EddiePJ]

Percentage wise, the overall failure rate would hardly even be measurable against unit production, and if you look back through this thread, it is just the same handful of owners that are complaining.

The thread reads like a scratched record. And people say that the brexit thread is boring!

If the owners really felt that badly about it, why don't they do something about through the courts.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/impulse-2-0-knacken-des-motors.36094/

look at the date and there are loads more threads if you look on other forums.

i never even had a ebike then i did my research

 

[EddiePJ]

It makes no difference. I suspect that the forum link will contain just another small handful of owners going over and over the issue, along with non owners such as us, and in effect massively extending the thread length.

 

[brunobensaid]

Percentage wise, the overall failure rate would hardly even be measurable against unit production, and if you look back through this thread, it is just the same handful of owners that are complaining.

The thread reads like a scratched record. And people say that the brexit thread is boring!

If the owners really felt that badly about it, why don't they do something about through the courts.

I just joined this thread, personally, as I have been among the numerous Kalkhoff bike owners in France who have been suffering from this problem. One goal of this thread is indeed to identify the level of frustration, share experiences and why not, team up and go to court. Regardless of all this, if you find this thread boring, why do you keep following it or even commenting on it?

 

[soundwave]

but would you buy one eddie.? or ask for one for a review over 4 weeks

 

[EddiePJ]

and why not, team up and go to court.

Because none of you would have it in you to do so. If it was going to happen, it would have happened a long time ago.

SW, I'm more happy with what I have, but yep if it came to it, I see no reason not to buy one. As said, I see it as just a small percentage of owners that are having an issue.

The bikes have a warranty, and 50C appear to be doing all that they can to appease owners.

 

[soundwave]

but at the rate you ride you will need a new motor every 4 weeks pmsl.

 

[EddiePJ]

Actually, that one did make me laugh.

I'll leave it, and the thread there.

 

[flecc]

As said, I see it as just a small percentage of owners that are having an issue.

In fairness Eddie, why doesn't a replacement motor solve their problem? To me, having to have 2, 3 or 4 replacements looks like a fundamental problem with the units.

N.B. Posting crossed with Eddie's response above.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It wouldn't surprise me if there's hundreds of these bikes out of warranty, sitting in sheds with knackered motors. Most people don't use forums and have never heard of the Pedelecs site. I suspect also that a load of them went back to the bike shop and were told that their motor was out of warranty, so it would cost something like £600 for a new one plus labour costs at which point it was put back in the shed or sent to the tip.

Looking at it the other way, there's a very high proportion of the people on this forum that told us that they had bought these bikes and then subsequently told us they had a problem. How many forum members bought one and have done more than 2000 miles without needing a new motor?Could they please step forward?

 

[50cycles]

I just joined this thread, personally, as I have been among the numerous Kalkhoff bike owners in France who have been suffering from this problem. One goal of this thread is indeed to identify the level of frustration, share experiences and why not, team up and go to court. Regardless of all this, if you find this thread boring, why do you keep following it or even commenting on it?

Bruno,

How convenient you bought your Bike in France so we cannot check if you are a customer of Kalkhoff or not. Go back to your bridge troll man.

Most of the complainents on this thread are non Kalkhoff owners but have vested interests in the industry.

20000 Bikes on the road, 6 genuine motor complaints. Not bad by any companies standard.

Zero customer have we failed to keep on the road.

Regards

Scott

 

[Danidl]

It wouldn't surprise me if there's hundreds of these bikes out of warranty, sitting in sheds with knackered motors. Most people don't use forums and have never heard of the Pedelecs site. I suspect also that a load of them went back to the bike shop and were told that their motor was out of warranty, so it would cost something like £600 for a new one plus labour costs at which point it was put back in the shed or sent to the tip.

Looking at it the other way, there's a very high proportion of the people on this forum that told us that they had bought these bikes and then subsequently told us they had a problem. How many forum members bought one and have done more than 2000 miles without needing a new motor?Could they please step forward?

... D8VEH, have you not been warned about that type of behaviour before?, Seeking to replace opinions with facts. It just will not do...

For my part, I would have considered a bike of that type as a very expensive luxury item, and would not have confined it to a shed, I would have demanded redress. The number of replacement batteries, which 50 cycles would know about, would be evidence of their longitivity.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

.
The number of replacement batteries, which 50 cycles would know about, would be evidence of their longitivity.

As far as I can see, the stated facts simply don't add up:

• We have reports of people needing more than one motor from 50C.
• 50C say that there's only 6 people ever that needed a new motor.
• Just about all of the regular members of the forum that had one of those motors had a failure.

I went to university and studied statistics, but you shouldn't need that to figure out that something isn't right unless it's a coincidence that all 6 failures belonged to forum members and 50C are totally useless or cheated when replacing the motors. Alternatively, all the forum members are liars, and never had bad motors.

I don't like it when facts don't add up. It makes me want to get to the truth.

A few years ago, I was Quality Manager for a premium brand caravan manufacturer, and I noticed we were getting an uncomfortable number of reports of our new cheap brand tyres blowing. Our Customer Services asked them if the caravan was over-loaded, which they always are, so they got fobbed off, but I didn't feel comfortable about it until I saw a letter in a magazine saying that across several brands of caravan in his club, many of those tyres had blown at exactly the same mileage. A couple of guys had a blowout, replaced the tyre with the spare and then had a blow-out on the other side within a couple of miles. I had heard that same story from one of our customers.

I contacted the tyre importers, who told me that they had only ever had two reports of blow-outs, but I knew that our customer services had referred at least 5 examples. Unfortunately, he didn't keep any records. I spoke with other manufacturers QA, who were reluctant to give any details, but each gave a hint that they had seen the problem too.

Finally, face to face, after lots of nasty stuff, the importer admitted that there were problems. His exact words were, "We're not proud of that first batch". Luckily there weren't too many of them as far as we were concerned, so not too bad for us to deal with, but I lost a lot of sleep thinking about all the people with trailers and whatever getting random blow-outs.

Since then, I would never trust any statistics that a supplier gives about problem rates.

As an aside, the other thing I used to get as a quality manager was, "we send these things all over the world and you're the only one complaining", so I'd put one on the table and say, "Is that how it's supposed be?". "No", "then fix it please". Or, "We make 10,000 a month and we have only two complaints, both from you, which is a defect rate of only 0.0001%". Me, "Can I come to your factory and check your stores to see what the actual defect rate is?" Sometimes they said yes (Salesmen/MDs don't have a clue) and later got totally embarrassed when we had all the defects laid out in their store. BTW, that was a good technique for getting improvement if any readers are budding QA guys.

 

[RobF]

6 genuine motor complaints

From one bike?

 

[Danidl]

As far as I can see, the stated facts simply don't add up:

• We have reports of people needing more than one motor from 50C.
• 50C say that there's only 6 people ever that needed a new motor.
• Just about all of the regular members of the forum that had one of those motors had a failure.

I went to university and studied statistics, but you shouldn't need that to figure out that something isn't right unless it's a coincidence that all 6 failures belonged to forum members and 50C are totally useless or cheated when replacing the motors. Alternatively, all the forum members are liars, and never had bad motors.

I don't like it when facts don't add up. It makes me want to get to the truth.

A few years ago, I was Quality Manager for a premium brand caravan manufacturer, and I noticed we were getting an uncomfortable number of reports of our new cheap brand tyres blowing. Our Customer Services asked them if the caravan was over-loaded, which they always are, so they got fobbed off, but I didn't feel comfortable about it until I saw a letter in a magazine saying that across several brands of caravan in his club, many of those tyres had blown at exactly the same mileage. A couple of guys had a blowout, replaced the tyre with the spare and then had a blow-out on the other side within a couple of miles. I had heard that same story from one of our customers.

I contacted the tyre importers, who told me that they had only ever had two reports of blow-outs, but I knew that our customer services had referred at least 5 examples. Unfortunately, he didn't keep any records. I spoke with other manufacturers QA, who were reluctant to give any details, but each gave a hint that they had seen the problem too.

Finally, face to face, after lots of nasty stuff, the importer admitted that there were problems. His exact words were, "We're not proud of that first batch". Luckily there weren't too many of them as far as we were concerned, so not too bad for us to deal with, but I lost a lot of sleep thinking about all the people with trailers and whatever getting random blow-outs.

Since then, I would never trust any statistics that a supplier gives about problem rates.

As an aside, the other thing I used to get as a quality manager was, "we send these things all over the world and you're the only one complaining", so I'd put one on the table and say, "Is that how it's supposed be?". "No", "then fix it please". Or, "We make 10,000 a month and we have only two complaints, both from you, which is a defect rate of only 0.0001%". Me, "Can I come to your factory and check your stores to see what the actual defect rate is?" Sometimes they said yes (Salesmen/MDs don't have a clue) and later got totally embarrassed when we had all the defects laid out in their store. BTW, that was a good technique for getting improvement if any readers are budding QA guys.

... When I worked in the product engineering department of a medical devices company the QA people were our worst enemy, . They would never let anything go. Sounds to me like you would have been one of them ... Incidentally take that as a compliment.
Evan after all these years I recall one of the inspectors who was an absolute stickler, and my nemesis, well over a weekend he was promoted to production manager, . I could not get over the change in his behaviour, helpfulness personified. When I queried him on this , I was young then, his answer was simple .. different job . Different role.

 

[50cycles]

Hello Earth calling Dv8 self pro claimed Great Bloke.

Maybe you should go back to your caravan business/job because your Oxygen business has ran out of air. I am sensing a hint of jealousy that you should have stuck with your day job.

60x Kalkhoff bikes sold this week. How many Oxygens so far?

So to remind you of the facts once again here we go.

Kindest regards

Scott

PS Apologies for the copy and pasting of the same factual information but some stooges/trolls/ those with alterior motives due to vested interest in the cycle industry on the forum cannot seem to pass go.

Hi

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for your patience up until this point.

In answer to your questions

Artsu: The main reason for the motor failure was one of a few issues combined. The first one being a software timing issue which cause the internal pawls to catch, which in turn caused lateral movement in the bottom bracket resulting in the infamous clacking sound. However with these issues coupled with the final major issue which was one of human error during the motor assembly process which resulted in the wrong lubricant being used causing the motor to overheat resulting in complete motor failure. This resulted in 2015 some batches being effected and some not.

Perseus: I can confirm after being involved with Electric Bikes for 14 years there has never been a better time to own an Electric bike now that the whole industry is behind this sector and big names such as Bosch, Yamaha, Kalkhoff and Shimano have all invested heavily in to making the product the most feasible electric transport system in the world and the most successful form of electric transport out there. 50cycles takes its customer service extremely seriously and apart from customer that have received refunds over the years the remainder which is now well over 20000 customers we have managed to keep on the road no matter what. This has not been an easy task over the years, as Electric Bikes are not the easiest product to sell and service as some people may imagine. The prices of ebikes are also more affordable and I would recommend visiting our show rooms to try the best model suited for your needs. We do not apply heavy sales tactics but believe it is better for you to be able to make your own choice with advice from our expert product staff. Once you own a bike and take good care of it as you would any machine with moving working parts it will get you from AtoB for many many years. Battery life is well over 5 years now at which point it would have degraded by only 40% giving on a 17amp battery a distance that most people would need to do per day.

4bound: There is really no need to worry as the motor failures described as above would tend to happen in the first month of ownership. Any bike that comes in for a service is given the latest software up date. It is always a good idea to service your bike regularly and ask your local 50cycles dealer to update this for you at anytime free of charge.

Nemesis: We have not experienced motor failures related to the above issues outlined to Artsu above since 2015 models some of which were sold in 2016 unaware of the above problem until mid 2016. We believe all motors with this problem have now been fixed for the customer at no cost and we hope minimal inconvenience.

To confirm since this malfunction bought on by a chain of issues I can confirm the following improvements have been made.

1) Firstly and most importantly the application of Lubricants is now performed by robots so there is no chance of human error ever again.

2) A better membrane is used to prevent water induction and overheating.

3) The ratchet that the pawls sit in are now polished to prevent any damage being caused even in the unlikely event of a software timing issue.

4) The bearing in the bottom bracket is now larger to prevent any lateral movement caused by the above issues which resulted in the clacking sound.

As with all product developments and Kalkhoff amazing testing facilities each and every components is constantly review to make each new seasons bikes just that little bit better.

We are 100% confident and satisfied in the Impulse motor systems. Luckily our UK backorder in 2015 did not have many motor failures only resulting in around 50 bike motor changes plus a few of the warranty replacement were also faulty because they were issue before the cause was known.

With our own branded Beat Bike model we have still opted for the Impulse 2.2 to have on our own models, even through we have the option to use any on the market place. The reason being is that there is still not a better motor and battery combination on the market that provides such consistently high torque, battery range, long life and reliability as the Impulse system. Which is now the most widely used motor system across Europe.

However I do sincerely apologies to any customers that may have been caught up in this problem and hope you are now enjoying your electric bike to its full potential.

Kind regards

Scott