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Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors
- Thread starter Tomtomato
- Start date
Scott
It would probably have cooled the discussion if you had made this statement earlier as it would have eased the fears of current and future owners both as to the reliability of the motors and their replacement under guarantee.
It would probably have cooled the discussion if you had made this statement earlier as it would have eased the fears of current and future owners both as to the reliability of the motors and their replacement under guarantee.
Honesty and openness are all that is required. Up until now my perception based on postings here, is that Impluse motors are unreliable and 50cycles are unhelpful and give poor customer service.
Hi Artsu
Transparency is the future of business. Open and honesty is the way to go.
A direct question will always result in a direct answer from me. You have to say it how it is, off the cuff from the heart otherwise you are only kidding yourself.
Our company stays off this forum to enable us to provide the best service to our 19900 other customers but when I saw David make that cheap shot at me and my company it was the final straw for me. I will try from now on to answer any question once a month on this platform. But please be direct with your questions without fear and speculation this will in turn provide the clearest answers.
Kind regards
Scott
I'd like to know what fails in the motors and how the failures have been resolved?
At the moment I'm under the impression it is the freewheel/hub in the motors that breaks, and it has been resolved by making the motor soft start and with lower power?
I'm sure a comprehensive answer to that would alleviate any concerns readers of this thread may have of the Impluse motors.
At the moment I'm under the impression it is the freewheel/hub in the motors that breaks, and it has been resolved by making the motor soft start and with lower power?
I'm sure a comprehensive answer to that would alleviate any concerns readers of this thread may have of the Impluse motors.
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D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
That doesn't make sense when I've never made any derogatory statements about 50C. No apologies from you yet, so you'll be getting a few derogatory statements from me in the future. You've lit a fire. Now you're going to burn!
"Open and honesty is the way to go."
Why then did you lie about the Nuvinci Impulse Ergo being 23kg, when it's actually 28.8kg, which is very heavy for a modern ebike. I can see why you leave the weights out of all your website listings!
I discounted buying an Impulse II because of a bad trade review.
However, my hearsay reports and personal experience has reported problems with just about every make except Kalkhoff, especially Raleigh Motus (Bosch), cheap models with Bafang hub motors.
Because of the expense and only two year warranty, I have not bought an ebike, not trusting any of them to work properly.
Salesmen don't help. The advantages of ebikes are confirmed. Reliability and after sales service not. Just like home computers when they first came out.
However, my hearsay reports and personal experience has reported problems with just about every make except Kalkhoff, especially Raleigh Motus (Bosch), cheap models with Bafang hub motors.
Because of the expense and only two year warranty, I have not bought an ebike, not trusting any of them to work properly.
Salesmen don't help. The advantages of ebikes are confirmed. Reliability and after sales service not. Just like home computers when they first came out.
As the purchaser of two Kalkhoff bikes with Impulse 2 motors I have been very concerned by the description of numerous motor failures on this and other threads. We have had no problems with our motors, but I have lost confidence due to the reports here and the lack of rebuttal from 50 cycles. I used to recommend Kalkoff to everyone I spoke to but no longer feel able to do that.
One question I would like an answer to is - do our bikes need a software update? My wife's bike has been back for service during 2016 but mine has not been back at all.
Hi
Wow Mr Negativity has popped up again.
These all very good valid points raised and I will answer the posts from actual concerned customers or potential customers to the best of my ability. All are very good valid points and interesting perceptions created by the likes of Soundwave & Co.
I have to finish my end of the month business duties and family matters but will get back to the sensible points raised by genuine concerns over the next 48 hours.
Please do not flood the thread with the same questions I will answer Artsu, Perseus and 4bound in turn. By answering these should cover the vast majority of concerns raised through out the thread.
Soundwave and Dave will be ignored for the purpose of dealing with genuine interest. Hopefully by doing this I will not get burnt and we get to the bottom of all this speculation.
Hope this approach is acceptable to all.
Kind regards
Scott Snaith
Director
50cycles
When i had my last motor change it must have had the latest software because it felt muted compared to when the last one was running well.As well as this it wasn`t surging anymore after going over sharp bumps as it previously did.
My first impulse motor failed with a loud cracking plastic noise and then the drive started locking up and the second one failed by constantly making the dreaded clacking noise.
It looks like the reliabilty issues have been resolved with the latest design.
Hi
Sorry for the late reply and thank you for your patience up until this point.
In answer to your questions
Artsu: The main reason for the motor failure was one of a few issues combined. The first one being a software timing issue which cause the internal pawls to catch, which in turn caused lateral movement in the bottom bracket resulting in the infamous clacking sound. However with these issues coupled with the final major issue which was one of human error during the motor assembly process which resulted in the wrong lubricant being used causing the motor to overheat resulting in complete motor failure. This resulted in 2015 some batches being effected and some not.
Perseus: I can confirm after being involved with Electric Bikes for 14 years there has never been a better time to own an Electric bike now that the whole industry is behind this sector and big names such as Bosch, Yamaha, Kalkhoff and Shimano have all invested heavily in to making the product the most feasible electric transport system in the world and the most successful form of electric transport out there. 50cycles takes its customer service extremely seriously and apart from customer that have received refunds over the years the remainder which is now well over 20000 customers we have managed to keep on the road no matter what. This has not been an easy task over the years, as Electric Bikes are not the easiest product to sell and service as some people may imagine. The prices of ebikes are also more affordable and I would recommend visiting our show rooms to try the best model suited for your needs. We do not apply heavy sales tactics but believe it is better for you to be able to make your own choice with advice from our expert product staff. Once you own a bike and take good care of it as you would any machine with moving working parts it will get you from AtoB for many many years. Battery life is well over 5 years now at which point it would have degraded by only 40% giving on a 17amp battery a distance that most people would need to do per day.
4bound: There is really no need to worry as the motor failures described as above would tend to happen in the first month of ownership. Any bike that comes in for a service is given the latest software up date. It is always a good idea to service your bike regularly and ask your local 50cycles dealer to update this for you at anytime free of charge.
Nemesis: We have not experienced motor failures related to the above issues outlined to Artsu above since 2015 models some of which were sold in 2016 unaware of the above problem until mid 2016. We believe all motors with this problem have now been fixed for the customer at no cost and we hope minimal inconvenience.
To confirm since this malfunction bought on by a chain of issues I can confirm the following improvements have been made.
1) Firstly and most importantly the application of Lubricants is now performed by robots so there is no chance of human error ever again.
2) A better membrane is used to prevent water induction and overheating.
3) The ratchet that the pawls sit in are now polished to prevent any damage being caused even in the unlikely event of a software timing issue.
4) The bearing in the bottom bracket is now larger to prevent any lateral movement caused by the above issues which resulted in the clacking sound.
As with all product developments and Kalkhoff amazing testing facilities each and every components is constantly review to make each new seasons bikes just that little bit better.
We are 100% confident and satisfied in the Impulse motor systems. Luckily our UK backorder in 2015 did not have many motor failures only resulting in around 50 bike motor changes plus a few of the warranty replacement were also faulty because they were issue before the cause was known.
With our own branded Beat Bike model we have still opted for the Impulse 2.2 to have on our own models, even through we have the option to use any on the market place. The reason being is that there is still not a better motor and battery combination on the market that provides such consistently high torque, battery range, long life and reliability as the Impulse system. Which is now the most widely used motor system across Europe.
However I do sincerely apologies to any customers that may have been caught up in this problem and hope you are now enjoying your electric bike to its full potential.
Kind regards
Scott
Sorry for the late reply and thank you for your patience up until this point.
In answer to your questions
Artsu: The main reason for the motor failure was one of a few issues combined. The first one being a software timing issue which cause the internal pawls to catch, which in turn caused lateral movement in the bottom bracket resulting in the infamous clacking sound. However with these issues coupled with the final major issue which was one of human error during the motor assembly process which resulted in the wrong lubricant being used causing the motor to overheat resulting in complete motor failure. This resulted in 2015 some batches being effected and some not.
Perseus: I can confirm after being involved with Electric Bikes for 14 years there has never been a better time to own an Electric bike now that the whole industry is behind this sector and big names such as Bosch, Yamaha, Kalkhoff and Shimano have all invested heavily in to making the product the most feasible electric transport system in the world and the most successful form of electric transport out there. 50cycles takes its customer service extremely seriously and apart from customer that have received refunds over the years the remainder which is now well over 20000 customers we have managed to keep on the road no matter what. This has not been an easy task over the years, as Electric Bikes are not the easiest product to sell and service as some people may imagine. The prices of ebikes are also more affordable and I would recommend visiting our show rooms to try the best model suited for your needs. We do not apply heavy sales tactics but believe it is better for you to be able to make your own choice with advice from our expert product staff. Once you own a bike and take good care of it as you would any machine with moving working parts it will get you from AtoB for many many years. Battery life is well over 5 years now at which point it would have degraded by only 40% giving on a 17amp battery a distance that most people would need to do per day.
4bound: There is really no need to worry as the motor failures described as above would tend to happen in the first month of ownership. Any bike that comes in for a service is given the latest software up date. It is always a good idea to service your bike regularly and ask your local 50cycles dealer to update this for you at anytime free of charge.
Nemesis: We have not experienced motor failures related to the above issues outlined to Artsu above since 2015 models some of which were sold in 2016 unaware of the above problem until mid 2016. We believe all motors with this problem have now been fixed for the customer at no cost and we hope minimal inconvenience.
To confirm since this malfunction bought on by a chain of issues I can confirm the following improvements have been made.
1) Firstly and most importantly the application of Lubricants is now performed by robots so there is no chance of human error ever again.
2) A better membrane is used to prevent water induction and overheating.
3) The ratchet that the pawls sit in are now polished to prevent any damage being caused even in the unlikely event of a software timing issue.
4) The bearing in the bottom bracket is now larger to prevent any lateral movement caused by the above issues which resulted in the clacking sound.
As with all product developments and Kalkhoff amazing testing facilities each and every components is constantly review to make each new seasons bikes just that little bit better.
We are 100% confident and satisfied in the Impulse motor systems. Luckily our UK backorder in 2015 did not have many motor failures only resulting in around 50 bike motor changes plus a few of the warranty replacement were also faulty because they were issue before the cause was known.
With our own branded Beat Bike model we have still opted for the Impulse 2.2 to have on our own models, even through we have the option to use any on the market place. The reason being is that there is still not a better motor and battery combination on the market that provides such consistently high torque, battery range, long life and reliability as the Impulse system. Which is now the most widely used motor system across Europe.
However I do sincerely apologies to any customers that may have been caught up in this problem and hope you are now enjoying your electric bike to its full potential.
Kind regards
Scott
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Thank you for a honest enlightening post. Just one comment...If you had said this months ago you would have killed this thread at its birth. I'm pleased it's being resolved and hopefully no more reports of failing motors will be reported.
I`ve no doubt that Kalkhoff will get right back on track with the impulse motor and it will become the one to have because when mine was right it was very powerful and made the Bosch CX feel weak in comparison.Also Kalkhoff offer large capacity batteries and now i have the 500wh battery with the bosch i feel a bit cheated because the range is a lot less.
Scott, I think that you have finally taken a much better approach to answering the concerns in the forum. As Crockers said, this should have been done some time ago. IMHO you have damaged your brand and lost sales by not taking this approach earlier. Buyers just want to buy reliable ebikes that provide quality and reliability proportional with their cost. When they go wrong they want them fixed at a fair cost or no cost at all. When a model has an issue as the Impulse motor did they will discuss it in places like this. The majority will just be interested individuals, but they will stand up for other members who suddenly seem under some sort of threat over a product when they complain about it. I think that there are considerably less industry insiders tryin to bring your business to its knees. There is a note of paranoia in those sort of comments.
From my point of view, I wanted an Integrale and the other half wanted a Kalkhoff, but hadn't decided on a model. I went elsewhere before Xmas and she ordered a bike also from elsewhere this week. That's just 2 sales lost, which is small beer to your organisation, but they were two sales lost due to this thread. There may have been others, many others. The thread will be here for a long time.
My experience of the ebike industry has been good, as far as the buying stage is concerned. We haven't got to the sales and servicing stage yet, but we have had vendors advising against a certain model or configuration from their catalog, knowing that it could lose them a sale completely.
I wish you luck with your venture, and remember, the customer is king.
From my point of view, I wanted an Integrale and the other half wanted a Kalkhoff, but hadn't decided on a model. I went elsewhere before Xmas and she ordered a bike also from elsewhere this week. That's just 2 sales lost, which is small beer to your organisation, but they were two sales lost due to this thread. There may have been others, many others. The thread will be here for a long time.
My experience of the ebike industry has been good, as far as the buying stage is concerned. We haven't got to the sales and servicing stage yet, but we have had vendors advising against a certain model or configuration from their catalog, knowing that it could lose them a sale completely.
I wish you luck with your venture, and remember, the customer is king.
Very enlightening. I had my motor replaced last year. No mention was made of the known fault so I hope my replacement motor is the developed one. I have only been using it in Eco due to my concerns.
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
Thank's for your answers and discription of the failure chain. That helps a lot. Now there are further questions:
1) From which motor# or date of production is the new improved impulse2.2?
2) Even the fixed motors in August 2016 with better parts had problems (mine lasts just 1 month or 800km) From what date the repaired motors were using the components from the impulse2.2?
Thanks
Alex
Scott, thank you very much for these answers to the issues raised. I welcome the opportunity to have a FOC software update - however with a 240 mile return trip to the nearest 50 cycles showroom it is still an expensive and time consuming effort. If I had been aware of this last year when I did that trip after a different problem with my wife's bike I could have brought them both at the same time. Is there any other way I can get this done?
For example I have read on another thread of someone being posted a DIY kit by yourselves. Or, I note that Kalkhoff bikes are now being sold by other companies - is the software update available from them, funded by Kalkhoff? ( eg http://www.chestereroads.co.uk/kalkhoff-ebikes.html )
A 70 mile round trip to their new shop in Altrincham, although I don't think it is open just yet.
Latest information is opening first week of April,must be a big showroom as it`s over four floors.
What an excellent and clear response. I'm not really in the market for a bike at the moment, but I look forward to visiting your new Manchester showroom when it opens.
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