Old person. Needing advise on. Eleictirc bikes and how to search forums

[hunch1969]

Hi all first of all I’m dyslexic so apologies to the quality of my writing.

I’ve been follwing electric bike tech from a far for a while now and have just made the leap in and have a Swytch kit arriving shortly. I see this as a baby step and a learning experience as with my basic grasps of physics it’s going to be under powered for my needs. So first of all can someone explaine how tos search forums so only the key words I use return results ( ie if I use the words England. Bike fork only a thread with those 3 words appears. I tend to get results that have one of those words sich means I get 1000s of results... I know this isn’t forum specific but I’m old so need to understand the basics.

My plan is to use the swych kit as a learning experience and then build my perfect daily bike. When I say bike my interest is only in it being a form of getting from a to b with the least physical effort. I hate cycling in the context of a roady. I was one of the original bmx boys doing all the quarter pipe stuff and frankly scared of going any where bumpy trail as my brain will think I’m 14 again but my body , eyes and reactions arent lol. So with that in mind after this kit I plan to build my own steel machine with as much comfort in it as possible. Thinking cow horns as well to reall go back to my youth. But it will be heavy as will add everything you. Ishtar need to stay as dry and carry shopping etc. I’m also still 6’4 and 18st/130kg/240 lb. so that is a huge mass to push around. I plan. Due to the power limits in the uk I’m looking at having a huge battery Amp wise to keep up near that nominal 250w limit so will be looking to find help. I guess as well is there a way to find like minded people in your area? I guess doing this for your self can save lots of cash, particularly if you can spread the costs over a few people for 3d printers Sport welders etc.

so not much to ask I’m in the UK in Berkshire if relevant .
thanks

 

[Woosh]

Search:

So first of all can someone explaine how tos search forums so only the key words I use return results ( ie if I use the words England. Bike fork only a thread with those 3 words appears. I tend to get results that have one of those words sich means I get 1000s of results... I know this isn’t forum specific but I’m old so need to understand the basics.

you can use google site search. For your example, go to google and enter

site: pedelecs.co.uk england fork

site: pedelecs.co.uk england fork - Google Search

www.google.com

kits:
for your weight, look for a rear hub motor with a good torque like this DWG22C:
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-241-dwg22c-48v12ah/shengyi-dwg22c-48v-250w-rear-hub-kit-with-48v-12ah-battery

 

[hunch1969]

Thanks really appreciate the quick response. Is there away to book mark your message so I can find it easily in 6m time if I want to look in more detail at your shop? I will try the search. Funny how it always comes down to google.
Will also keep in mind your suggestion about the rear hub. 17amh battery sound fairly useful as well. But I guess the other requirement will be the easy and quick release nature. For security reasons Im also thinking possibly mid drive motor. so my logic with both is as the yobs who steal bikes learn more they will start realising the motor and battery is the most valuable bit. so being able to take the battery off easily is key hence getting a Swytch kit to start as all the key electrics are integrated in an easy to remove battery. With hub motors long term I’d be concerned that

a) the wheel will be trashed if they try to steal it ( looking at broken bikes I see at the station)

b) as in the uk, we are seeing a massive growth of hub motors particularly the deliverroo uber eats bikers. Most I see have large 500w motors which aren’t street legal in uk and a lot cycle like idiot so the police start looking out for hub motors with a tendency to use it as an excuses to pull people over for other reasons. Mid motors are less obvious

 

[Gringo]

Is there away to book mark your message so I can find it easily in 6m time if I want to look in more detail at your shop?

yes there is
on the top right of each post is a book mark symbol (circled in yellow) click on it and that post wi appear in your Profile page, Accessed through your avatar (circled in red)

 

[Woosh]

. For security reasons Im also thinking possibly mid drive motor. so my logic with both is as the yobs who steal bikes learn more they will start realising the motor and battery is the most valuable bit. so being able to take the battery off easily is key hence getting a Swytch kit to start as all the key electrics are integrated in an easy to remove battery. With hub motors long term I’d be concerned that

the battery is locked to the frame and comes with two keys.
You don't need the key to ride on electrics, only to remove the battery.
The advantage is you don't have to remove the battery when you leave the bike in a public place.
The rear motor is tightly bolted to the frame with two 18mm wheel nuts.
Middle motor is of course advantageous, better weight distribution, lower inertia in turns and you can leverage on the gears to climb steeper gradients. On the downside, middle motors are a bit heavier for the same capability because they have a large internal gearbox. You also have to ride on the right gear all the time.
Rear hub kits give a more relaxed ride and near zero maintenance, you don't have to change gear when climbing a hill because the torque is independent from the gear you selected.

 

[Fat Rat]

Hi welcome to the site

 

[hunch1969]

the battery is locked to the frame and comes with two keys.
You don't need the key to ride on electrics, only to remove the battery.
The advantage is you don't have to remove the battery when you leave the bike in a public place.
The rear motor is tightly bolted to the frame with two 18mm wheel nuts.
Middle motor is of course advantageous, better weight distribution, lower inertia in turns and you can leverage on the gears to climb steeper gradients. On the downside, middle motors are a bit heavier for the same capability because they have a large internal gearbox. You also have to ride on the right gear all the time.
Rear hub kits give a more relaxed ride and near zero maintenance, you don't have to change gear when climbing a hill because the torque is independent from the gear you selected.

Thanks, regarding the Battery, I guess having had a good bike nicked in the pass from the centre of a busy town I'm a little cautious as when there's a will there's away and those battery look a little fiddly to remove, but although locked I'd be concerned a determined thief with a crow bar could get the case off fairly easy to flog the cells on ebay. I'm probably just over cautious, though having lost a 2K bike that was very securely locked and in a very visible location.

Interesting information on the mid drive, hadn't thought about a lot of that. when you say you have to be in the right gear what does that mean compared to a hub motor? I assume you select the right gear a bit like you would if cycling normally as the motor would need to work less (although you'd go slower). Is this not the case for both solutions? does a hub motor have more torque than a mid drive? As I think this through I'm thinking that what you are saying is that the hub motor just turns the wheel at an RPM related to whatever power is fed in by what ever power control mechanism is installed. I guess this bit would be similar with a mid drive, but then the mid drive would transfer that energy to the rear wheel via a chain so although the chain/pedals might go at a standard cadence the rear wheel would only rotate at an RPM based on which chain rings were being used. So in some ways closer to normal cycling?

thanks again for all your advice.

 

[Woosh]

riding a bike with a crank drive middle motor is very close to riding a normal bike, you just feel you have bionic legs, whatever your age.
Because the motor power is directly proportional to your cadence, you will need to keep your cadence high, above 60RPM. The need for high cadence is much more obvious when you go up a hill.
That may not suit everyone, especially if you suffer muscle or joint pain.
If you suffer any leg pain, choose a hub motor because your cadence will likely to be sub-optimal.

 

[Benjahmin]

Exactly, with a mid drive, the cadence is what the motor requires, not what the rider is comfortable with.
As a hub drives the wheel directly the pedal cadence is irelavent to it, making it a less 'technical' ride. i.e. You only have to match the gear to your needs not the motors.

 

[sjpt]

Exactly, with a mid drive, the cadence is what the motor requires, not what the rider is comfortable with.
As a hub drives the wheel directly the pedal cadence is irelavent to it, making it a less 'technical' ride. i.e. You only have to match the gear to your needs not the motors.

The corresponding problem with hub drive is that it cannot operate at its most efficient over a range of speeds. For example, if you can only keep up 6mph up a hill the hub motor (unless very low wound) will be operating well below optimal efficiency, and however much you change gears won't help.

I've never understood why crank drive motors are not available with their internal gears arranged so that the operate at their best efficiency around 40-50 rpm (to be comfortable for a typical older rider).

 

[Woosh]

Shimano has taken out a patent for their middle motor with internal two speed gearbox.
I guess the current arrangement with derailleurs is so cost efficient that companies don't see the benefit of middle gearboxes.

 

[sjpt]

I wasn't suggesting multi-speed gearing, just different fixed gearing. They (almost?) all have internal gearing so motor speed is not the same as user cadence; why can't that internal gearing be arranged with a ratio more friendly to many (most) users. I can see that some will really want the gearing currently typically offered, but not most.

 

[Woosh]

I wasn't suggesting multi-speed gearing, just different fixed gearing.

that's what the Shimano patent/design does. Two different sized main cogs get shifted out/in place by a rod inside the crank motor.
I suppose the main benefit is shifting the middle gear is equal to shifting 3 gears on the derailleur.

 

[Gavin]

I wasn't suggesting multi-speed gearing, just different fixed gearing. They (almost?) all have internal gearing so motor speed is not the same as user cadence; why can't that internal gearing be arranged with a ratio more friendly to many (most) users. I can see that some will really want the gearing currently typically offered, but not most.

Comfortable cadence is such a variable that the manufacturers will never please everyone.

The manufacturers clearly think that the 60-75 rpm cadence that most mid-drives seem to be most comfortable at is also the cadence that most riders are comfortable at.