NuVinci

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,054
30,510
They've been around for about three years Rami, and the 360 is the second iteration, a bit lighter and slightly more compact than the first one. They work extremely well, can transmit more power than any current hub gear and the gearing range is quite good.

The downsides are the price, it being slightly heavy and most of all, quite low efficiency. There's a definite sensation of it creating more drag than any conventional hub gear, and the reviews by A to B and Velovision have reported the same. This makes sense since the grip of the ball bearing transmission relies on compressing the fluid in the drive interface to high degrees. However, this may not seem anywhere near as important on an e-bike.

I seem to remember at least two firms offering it previously on e-bikes but I don't know of a mainstream one up to now, though some are due next year as options. One member I know and have ridden with fitted one to his Kalkhoff Agattu in place of the Nexus 7 and that one works well on that powered bike.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
One of the problems with the NuVinci seems to be it can be quite hard to change gear.

I saw a YouTube video and the rider was having to give the grip a fair old twist - hydraulic actuation could be the answer.

The hub is being fitted to more e-bikes - there's a list on the NuVinci website - but I don't think many are available in this country.

Moustache offer a Bosch crank drive NuVinci, which might be the best of several worlds:

Moustache Bikes | Lundi 26 Bosch NUVINCI
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
There's a few on Endless-Sphere that have used them with various crank drives. Do a search there. I'm pretty sure there was one with a Bosch drive bike at the Cycle Show in Birmingham and this one in the last AtoB magazine:
Moustache Bikes | Lundi 26 Bosch NUVINCI
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
For me, the need for such complication and expense to achieve what? is off-set by the simplicity, ease of maintenance and repair, and low cost of a derailleur.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Agree with Mike...but can see this working in a more powerful S class E bike
 

CycloTricity

Trade Member
Aug 8, 2012
54
24
www.cyclotricity.com
Thanks guys, I'm surprised they've existed for that long, wasn't aware the CVT mechanism was used in bikes at all. I guess it's because the cost hasn't taken them into the mainstream yet as flecc and mike said.

However, what I was really wondering on my post at the top (apologies, I should've phrased my question properly) is whether or not CVT has ever been integrated within an e-bike motor hub?
I've been looking at the links posted here, but the motors (be it hub motor or crank drive) are always separate from the CVT system. Any idea if there's been any attempt to combine both and what the outcome was?

If such electric hub doesn't exists, I'd be interested in getting our motor engineers to explore the possibility..
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
would your motor engineers be Chinese by any chance...Bring it all back home (Bob Dylan)
 

Fordulike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2010
3,802
1,537
As quoted on Grace's website on the MX version:

'There’s a lot of hightech kit hidden behind so much apparent elegance – an automatic power transmission means you are always using the best gear ratio'

When they say automatic, do they mean fully automatic as in no need for manual changing?
I thought you had to twist the gear thingy to go up and down the range :confused:
 

GORDONAL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2009
333
6
sunny Powys(Wales),Spain
As quoted on Grace's website on the MX version:

'There’s a lot of hightech kit hidden behind so much apparent elegance – an automatic power transmission means you are always using the best gear ratio'

When they say automatic, do they mean fully automatic as in no need for manual changing?
I thought you had to twist the gear thingy to go up and down the range :confused:
You certainly had to twist the gear thingy on the Dahon Mu-N360 I recently owned, this was chain drive but i'm sure even the belt drive model needs twisting of the thingy. Certainly concur with Flecc's observation about losses in the drive system , it was appreciably worse than a comparable Dahon with a Nexus hub drive. However in an electric bike scenario the NuVinci drive would be in its element imho.

Alan
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Thanks guys, I'm surprised they've existed for that long, wasn't aware the CVT mechanism was used in bikes at all. I guess it's because the cost hasn't taken them into the mainstream yet as flecc and mike said.

However, what I was really wondering on my post at the top (apologies, I should've phrased my question properly) is whether or not CVT has ever been integrated within an e-bike motor hub?
I've been looking at the links posted here, but the motors (be it hub motor or crank drive) are always separate from the CVT system. Any idea if there's been any attempt to combine both and what the outcome was?

If such electric hub doesn't exists, I'd be interested in getting our motor engineers to explore the possibility..
Have a read of this if you want some fun:
Endless-sphere.com • View topic - EBay seller claims to have hub motor w/Nuvinci type gearing
 

CycloTricity

Trade Member
Aug 8, 2012
54
24
www.cyclotricity.com

Scimitar

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 31, 2010
1,772
40
Ireland
Go ahead. The world is waiting with indifference for the next washer/drier. If you read that thread on E-S, you'd have picked up that what was ringing people's bells was the claim of much improved efficiency. Total BS, as it turned out.
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
CVT incorporated in a hub motor would result in a huge drive system, not only in physical dimensions but also in cost.

Geared hubs such as the 3,7,8 and 11 spd Nexus/Alfine have proved to be perfectly capable of handling the combined effort of both rider and center-drive motor for many years now....there are thousands of them in use in many countries of the world.

Recently on this forum, I have seen several unsubstantiated claims that center drives are causing premature failure of Shimano geared hubs....documented evidence please!.

And of course, Shimano do not recommend that their geared hubs should be subjected to the dual forces of both rider and center electric drives, but since when, in the unlikely premature failure of a geared hub is the consumer left to fight it out with Shimano to get a replacement under warrantee. The answer is, they don't, the manufacturer of the machine will replace the geared hub without question. It was after all their decision to use it.

Road gearing on electrically assisted bikes is always a problem, the worst offenders being those machines with batteries behind the seat-tube, usually eliminating the use of double or triple chain-rings. If you really need such a huge range of ratios on an e-bike, then there are currently available several options....and the prohibitively expensive and overly heavy Nuvinci CVT is not one of them, at least not in my book.

For the past three months, I have been riding a Bosch powered machine. The Bosch drive is very narrow-gutted....the distance between the crank-arms little more than that of a normal road bike with a compact gear-set. Obviously, there is not room for even a double chain-ring. Nevertheless, the machine has a very wide gear-inch range by the use of the SRAM 9/27 Dual-Drive. The concept of the Dual-Drive is of course very simple, instead of a triple chain-ring, a 9 spd cluster is grafted onto a 3 spd geared hub.

The geared hub component of the SRAM Dual-Drive has three positions:

'Uphill' (underdrive) provides very low ratios, in 1st gear it would probably be quicker to get off and walk (and take the opportunity to 'spark one up' and restore the nico levels). lol.

'Flat-ground' (direct drive) taking full advantage of the high efficiency of the derailleur component. In use, top gear (18th) is nicely matched to the maximum assisted road speed of 16-17 mph at a comfortable 60 rpm cadence.

'Down-hill' (over-drive), I've only tried this on a couple of occasions. In 27th gear (128 gear-inches) with a good stiff tail-wind, I managed 25mph at a steady 60 rpm cadence... the electrical assistance having left me to it long before I reached that speed....a very 'tall' gear indeed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer the SRAM Dual-Drive to the 8 spd Alfine geared hub fitted to my Kalkhoff Sahel Pro Disc.

In summary, If you really need so many gears on an electrically assisted bicycle, there are far more efficient and less expensive ways of doing it than CVT's in hub-motors or belt driven Nuvinci geared hubs, the latter being the territory of the money-no-object fashionistas.

Regarding the Cyclotricity machines, the triple chain ring is an unnecessary complication as regards setting up and maintenace. Providing the machine is fitted with a minimum 9ah battery, the motor is powerful enough to cope with all but the steepest of hills and heaviest riders.
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
In practice, on my Tonaro around Swansea which is fairly hilly, I only use gears 2, 4,6 and 8. Occaisionally I use number 3. I only have used 1 on a very steep hill at Mumbles pier.
So what advantage would this nuvinci hub give me?