Not getting along with my new Raliegh Captus eBike...

[Streetyking]

I had a Raleigh Array Crossbar and unfortunately it was stolen from me, luckily the insurance paid out so I thought I'd upgrade.

I chose what I thought would be an upgrade in the Raleigh Captus which features a Bosch Active Line, there's many aspects that I do see as an upgrade like the hydraulic brakes, the Bosch intuvia display but I must admit I'm not impressed with the Bosch Active Line mid motor, my Raleigh Array would breeze me up hills with a minimum sweat but with this one I'm really struggling and getting to work all sweaty... The reason I got an ebike...

With the Array it had 5 levels of assist...and I had it on level 3 pretty much all the time besides one BIG climb when I maxed it to 5, with the Captus I'm trying it on Tour but get rather sweaty and heavy breathing... Sport/Turbo feel the same to me and I didn't really wanna max it out all the time as the battery range isn't great...like 12 miles the Range says with a full battery.

Why am I finding it more difficult on what should be a better bike...as the Bosch system has more torque And should be better... Right?

Or am I wrong, I'm not a big electric bike whizz tbh...but loved my Array and now I'm thinking I should of just bought the same bike...just thought it'd be an upgrade.

 

[soundwave]

active line is for town bikes.
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/drive-unit/

 

[Phil Dryden]

Hi Streetyking,
The Activeline motor sits at the bottom of the Bosch range, with 40nm of torque when on Turbo. My wife has a Carrera Crosspath with the same motor, and the assistance is definitely there but not dramatic. I have a Cube Kathmandu with the Bosch Performance Line CX motor generating 75nm of torque on Turbo setting and the difference is nothing short of remarkable. It has wafted me up every hill I have attempted without any problem whatsoever. The difference really is quite dramatic. The intermediate motors produced by Bosch, Activeline Plus, and Performance Line generate 50 and 63 nm of torque respectively. Downside, not that it bothers me, is that the PL CX motor is a little more noisy - a definite electrical "whine".

PD

 

[Streetyking]

Thanks for the responses,

I understand it's at the bottom of Bosch range but according to the guy in the shop selling me the bike and this review of my old bike https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-city-bikes/raleigh-array-700

It seems my previous ebike had only 25nm of torque so I'm trying to figure why this feels more challenging....

It had a front driven emotion motor.

On the Bosch if i have a hill start it can be quite hard to get going, the other bike was much better...




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[soundwave]

you could change the gearing but id take it back if you can and get something with a cx motor.

 

[GLJoe]

I'm trying it on Tour but get rather sweaty and heavy breathing... Sport/Turbo feel the same to me and I didn't really wanna max it out all the time as the battery range isn't great...like 12 miles the Range says with a full battery.

Why am I finding it more difficult on what should be a better bike...as the Bosch system has more torque And should be better... Right?

First thing first. Its highly unlikely there isn't an increase in power when selecting Turbo. So if you're struggling, use Turbo! Ignore the range. It will change as you ride. Also, if there genuinely isn't a lot more power going to the motor as you think, then how is it going to use a lot more battery?

Don't know much (anything!) about the Array. Is it a cadence based sensor system? The bosch also uses torque sensing, so you have to put force on the pedals as opposed to just turning your legs around!
(also, what cadence do you cycle at? that makes a difference)
There might be nothing wrong with your bike. It possibly just needs a different style of activation/riding, so stick it in Turbo until you get used to it (and let us know what RPM you cycle at)

 

[Nev]

, with the Captus I'm trying it on Tour but get rather sweaty and heavy breathing... Sport/Turbo feel the same to me

This doesn't seem right to me. Looking at the spec for the active line the support levels are as follows.
Eco 40%
Tour 100%
Sport 170%
Turbo 250%

So you should see a big difference when using turbo mode. Its possible you have a faulty system or as GLJoe said it might be your riding style. In turbo mode drop down a gear or two and push a bit harder and try and spin the pedals a bit faster. You should certainly feel the extra power of the motor kick in when you do this.

Do you have a friend who has a bosch motored e-bike, if so get them to test ride your bike to see if its a faulty one or if its your riding style.

Regarding the range what size battery do you have? I cant remember exactly how the range indicator works on the display, but I think it calculates its figures from your most recent riding. So if you have just gone up a fairly long and steep hill in turbo mode then it may well say 12 miles. If however you have been riding along the flat with a strong wind behind you in ECO mode it might say 70 miles or more.

 

[dwvl]

We have two Raleigh Arrays in our family, and I have to say they really do seem to punch above their weight in terms of performance and usability.

Yes, they are only 250W 25Nm (supposedly) hub motors with cadence sensing. But the whole system is so well sorted that assistance is provided much more immediately and smoothly than other hub motor bikes I have tried. We were going to buy mid-motor bikes after renting some Giant Explorers (?) on holiday, but when we tried the Raleigh Array we were sold - especially for the price

 

[flecc]

I'm not impressed with the Bosch Active Line mid motor, my Raleigh Array would breeze me up hills with a minimum sweat but with this one I'm really struggling and getting to work all sweaty... The reason I got an ebike...

It is the fact that the Array has cadence sensing, against the Bosch torque sensing where the power you get is more proportional to the force you put into the pedalling.

Follow the advice others have given about changing down, spinning a bit faster and using the higher power modes and you should find the Bosch the more capable climber of the two bikes.
.

 

[MikeS]

This is a quote from Bosch about their emtb mode. If they have implemented something similar in the latest version of the Active Line range it would explain some of the things some riders are experiencing.
"The eMTB mode, specially designed for the Performance Line CX, dynamically varies between the Tour and Turbo riding modes – motor support for maximum performance on the trail."
The probable test would be to pedal relatively gently in turbo mode and see if that feels the same as in sport mode. then try putting a lot of force into the pedalling and MAYBE the feel in turbo mode would be of more assist. I will try it next time im out.
Mike

 

[Streetyking]

Thanks you all so much for your advice and thoughts, I'm going to give the bike a bit more time and hopefully I adjust to it and see its benefits.

Perhaps it's just a steeper learning curve with the Captus, on the Array I mostly used Gears 3 and 4 only switching to higher when going downhill, I use gear 2 for one really steep climb other than that its 3 and 4.

With the Captus I feel like I need to be way more pro active in switching between gears more often, but I do find it quite clunky at switching gears especially on the hills if I'm peddling hard it feels like im going to break the chain or something.

My Battery is the 300w version.

I'm a bit of a n00b bike rider, I really liked the simplicity of the Array. I like things simple and easy...

 

[dwvl]

.... on the Array I mostly used Gears 3 and 4 only switching to higher when going downhill, I use gear 2 for one really steep climb other than that its 3 and 4.

With the Captus I feel like I need to be way more pro active in switching between gears more often, but I do find it quite clunky at switching gears especially on the hills if I'm peddling hard it feels like im going to break the chain or something.

You are describing one of the big differences between hub motors and crank motors:

• A hub motor provides the same assistance irrespective of what gear you are in, so you can choose a gear that suits your pedaling, without affecting the motor.

• A crank motor provides more wheel torque the lower the gear that you have selected, so you need to choose a gear that suits both your legs and the motor.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The big difference is where the torque measurement is taken from. The 25Nm at the hub is worth about double when compared with a mid motor drive system. The Array's 25Nm at the hub will be more powerful than 40Nm Active Bosh motor.

Our Torque range which develops what seems a puny 45Nm will out perform a Bosch Performance and is at least as as good as the 75Nm CX unless climbing steep hills where the gearing through the rear wheel helps the mid motor along.

We win a lot of orders when people try a bike equipped with the Bosch Active or Active plus and then a Wisper Torque, there is no comparison in terms of power although we can only quote 45Nm on the Wisper.

All the best, David

 

[Artstu]

Eco 40%
Tour 100%
Sport 170%
Turbo 250%

So you should see a big difference when using turbo mode.

I struggle to tell a difference between sport and turbo on my Bosch Classic, I have no doubt there is a difference though, just hard to feel it.

 

[Trevormonty]

Thanks you all so much for your advice and thoughts, I'm going to give the bike a bit more time and hopefully I adjust to it and see its benefits.

Perhaps it's just a steeper learning curve with the Captus, on the Array I mostly used Gears 3 and 4 only switching to higher when going downhill, I use gear 2 for one really steep climb other than that its 3 and 4.

With the Captus I feel like I need to be way more pro active in switching between gears more often, but I do find it quite clunky at switching gears especially on the hills if I'm peddling hard it feels like im going to break the chain or something.

My Battery is the 300w version.

I'm a bit of a n00b bike rider, I really liked the simplicity of the Array. I like things simple and easy...

Charge battery between rides as it will climb lot better when fully charged.

 

[Julie]

My mother recently bought a Cube Elly bike with a Bosch Active line motor, I was surprised at how underpowered it seemed compared to my Trek with a CX, I knew the Elly would not be as powerful as the CX, but I didn’t expect it to be so dramatic.

However She’s over the moon with it and never has it on higher than Tour, it’s fairly flat around here.

I’d put your Captus on Turbo and see how you like it, I keep my CX on Turbo all the time and still get satisfactory battery life.

 

[GLJoe]

I do find it quite clunky at switching gears especially on the hills if I'm peddling hard it feels like im going to break the chain or something.

With any bike (electric or not) that uses a derailleur, you're supposed to throttle back the leg power (although you keep gently turning the pedals) when changing gear!
The bosch system is claimed to have automatic shift detection, where by some magic (telepathy?), its supposed to know you're changing gear, and its supposed to momentarily reduce the motor power, but frankly, it doesn't work well - you, as the person in control, still need to reduce leg power when changing gear.

 

[DynatechFan]

I had a Merida centre drive with torque sensor for a while (Steps not Bosch mind) and found it behaved better with high cadence pedalling - tended to do a lot of gear changing (downwards) to keep my pedals spinning, even with practice my changes felt crunchy and a bit unsympathetic to the drive chain -
hope you get it sorted

 

[MikeS]

With any bike (electric or not) that uses a derailleur, you're supposed to throttle back the leg power (although you keep gently turning the pedals) when changing gear!
The bosch system is claimed to have automatic shift detection, where by some magic (telepathy?), its supposed to know you're changing gear, and its supposed to momentarily reduce the motor power, but frankly, it doesn't work well - you, as the person in control, still need to reduce leg power when changing gear.

Yes - I can feel the Bosch system cut the power but it always seems too late to avoid a crunch.
Mike

 

[it is i footpump]

sk I have a 2016 bosch active line ktm macina 50nm 400w powerpack .

but find it is a different ebike compared to my kudos vita uno which is speed censor and you can peddle slow or faster and still get fairly good assistance on the mid power setting 10.4ah battery around 30 miles range.

the bosch I have to work harder as it is t sensor, so on a long slightly steepish hill of say a mile in turbo I find it a bit of a struggle as you have to keep the cadence up to get full assistance.

I do find the power meter on the right of intuvia displ;ay helpful as regards ones effort and power usage.

I also have a Carrera with tdz2 moter which is 60nm also ts but can tell it has more power for hill climbing.

the bosch has a fairly good range, if possible I take a longer less hilly route.

andv try to avoid the really steep stuff.

not tried a whisper ebike, or a cx bosch but tried a merida big trail 70nm on a hill and one can noticve the extra grunt.