Northern Ireland EAPC status.

[HittheroadJ]

I came across this posting on the PSNI Ballymoney facebook-page:
https://www.facebook.com/PSNI.Ballymoney/?hc_ref=ARQNwryQfJPWlSJb1Ay1aTlPbY8kMCVXFrnP40kgiLnF6bv5YIqe-NTxgvTN4RyDDmQ&fref=nf

The comments underneath the article indicate that the fact that NIs Government/Parliament is non-active is the reason for NI to deviate from the EU and Wales, Scotland & England interpretation.

It is sad that police-officers can now confiscate eBikes and there could also be problems in case of accidents.

In the comments it is also clear that some attempted to register their bikes with the DVA, but the DVA declined on the grounds that they do not register EAPCs.

At least the question "Where is Limbo" has been answered. It is in Ballymoney. :-(

Here's the message.
PSNI Ballymoney
20 April at 16:00 ·
Have you an electric bike? If so please ensure you have registered it with DVA, have a licence to ride it, have it insured, taxed and have not been consuming alcohol while riding it!

Yesterday we seized an electric pedal cycle for having no insurance. These are considered mechanically propelled vehicles under road traffic legislation and where appropriate will be seized by Police if they have no insurance.

For further information check out the government website
http://ow.ly/JFji30jAXbJ

*The bike shown is not the bike that was seized. For illustration purposes only*

 

[chris_n]

Here is the relevant thread
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/update-on-n-i-e-bike-regs.29093/

 

[HittheroadJ]

Here is the relevant thread
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/update-on-n-i-e-bike-regs.29093/

Thanks for that. Is the Ballymoney confiscation the first of its type or have similar confiscations happened before?

 

[flecc]

Thanks for that. Is the Ballymoney confiscation the first of its type or have similar confiscations happened before?

I don't know of another pedelec one, but the rule throughout the whole of the UK is that any uninsured vehicle found in use is automatically subject to confiscation. Subsequent release is normally on presentation of proof of insurance.
.

 

[tommie]

Total disgrace!

Ballymoney? Thats North Antrim, instead of whining about it in here get on to the Westminster MP, in this case Paisley, he`s a bike enthusiast, he should know the ins and outs of this. Get him to make representations to the Secretary of State or use his weight over at Westminster.
Parliamentary
House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA
Tel: 020 7219 7116
Fax: 020 7219 2996
Email: ian.paisley.mp@parliament.uk

If they can extract £1 billion plus out of the government then ebike regs for N.I. should be a walk in the park for them.

 

[HittheroadJ]

Total disgrace!

instead of whining about it in here get on to the Westminster MP, in this case Paisley, he`s a bike enthusiast, he should know the ins and outs of this. Get him to make representations to the Secretary of State or use his weight over at Westminster.
Parliamentary
House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA
Tel: 020 7219 7116
Fax: 020 7219 2996
Email: ian.paisley.mp@parliament.uk

If they can extract £1 billion plus out of the government then ebike regs for N.I. should be a walk in the park for them.

Thanks for the information:
Just to be clear: It is not my bike, I am not related in any way to that confiscation incident.

I am concerned about the incident, I recently revived my old (2014) eBike which was bought in the UK (Woosh in Southampton) and I am concerned about the legalities. In the past the legal status was in Limbo, pending probably EU wide adoption of the EAPC definitions. But now Northenr Ireland appears to have first dropped out of automatically accepting EAPCs in line with the EU, Scotland, Wales and England, and then added on its own paperwork to add eBikes as mopeds (possibly pending intervention at Stormont). For now: If a Police Officer confiscates your bike you will not be able to get registration, therefore not be able to get proof of insurance and therefore not be able to get the bike back. Worse could happen if one were involved in an accident.

I think I'll discuss the rest in the other thread.
Thanks,
J.

 

[flecc]

In the past the legal status was in Limbo, pending probably EU wide adoption of the EAPC definitions. But now Northenr Ireland appears to have first dropped out of automatically accepting EAPCs in line with the EU, Scotland, Wales and England, and then added on its own paperwork to add eBikes as mopeds (possibly pending intervention at Stormont).

No that is not the case.

Firstly the UK not including N.I. did bring its law into line with the EU on 6th April 2015.

Secondly N.I. hasn't dropped out of accepting that. Their transport law is devolved to them, so they should have adopted it as we did. However their governing assembly had collapsed at the key time so there was no government there to implement the change.

Nor has N.I added any paperwork about treating pedelecs as motorcycles. That just happened to be the prior position, as it always was here in Britain for many years. In the absence of a pedelec permission they automatically have to be regarded as motorcycles.
.

 

[HittheroadJ]

Thanks for your perspective. I beg to differ on NI not adding paperwork, though. The changes of aug/sep 2017 formalise the differences. Before those it would have been a case of "pending approval of the inactive Stormont" after the process was formalised the onus is on the owners.
I am happy that most parts of the UK accepted the EAPC definitions. NI did not.
The second point: NI started formalising the status quo. That is not the same as saying "pending decisions by elected members of .....".

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

Does this look like an e-bike in this video?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=408193093065162

It looks like cables feeding down to the bike from the bag at the back, if so, aren't motorbike helmets compulsory for ebikes in Northern Ireland?

Soooo frustrated my e-bike is still in the shed for over a year now.

 

[tommie]

Does this look like an e-bike in this video?
It looks like cables feeding down to the bike from the bag at the back, if so, aren't motorbike helmets compulsory for ebikes in Northern Ireland?
Soooo frustrated my e-bike is still in the shed for over a year now.

That would be a No sinjin, just a standard PSNI Mtb,

What`s it doing in the shed?? Get it out man, plenty around Derry nowadays!

 

[TedG]

That would be a No sinjin, just a standard PSNI Mtb,

What`s it doing in the shed?? Get it out man, plenty around Derry nowadays!

During a visit to a solicitor recently on a totally unrelated matter I mentioned the ebike fiasco and he was aware of it and assured me that confiscation would be a minor issue compared to a personal injury claim in the event of an accident which had been backed by recorded PSNI / court action against an ebike user.

 

[Laser Man]

And Arlene Foster bangs on about how NI must remain exactly the same as the rest of the UK after brixit!

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

Hi guys, seeing today's news about stormont getting back together again, I wonder how long before the ebike legislation gets revised and we can get back on our bikes again? I realise this is going to be way down the pecking order for things to resolve but I'm hoping with a dedicated minister in place and the legislation ready to be signed it's not going to be too long.

 

[TedG]

Only a few days ago I heard from one of the sleeping, resting, bickering people in "power" and he said that he was furious that we in the UK are different from the rest of the UK and will do all he can to bring this to the attention of the rest of the slumbering giants as soon as possible.
Hmm.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

Gotta wait to see who takes up the ministers post and get onto them or their party to push it through. Is this the infrastructure minister who is responsible for revising this?
I know our organisation purchased a number of ebikes to trial with staff previously to get them to cycle to work but had to withdraw them after this nonsense started. I've been pedalling in to work on my normal bike in meantime and have lost 12kg so can't really complain but I still love the speed and convenience of the ebike.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

I've just written to the Green Party and asked if they could look at getting this signed and moved on in line with the rest of the UK.

 

[TedG]

Just seen your post SS. I have spent most of the morning emailing a goodly number of politicians pointing out that although it is early days for any sort of Stormont revival they should remember that we have been patient with our attempts to stay legal for over two years now and I would urge them to find the relevant piece of paper and sign it to give us parity in this part of the UK with the rest of the UK.
I tried to be as diplomatic as possible and admitted that our plight may be seen as trivial but to us who have limited mobility and getting older rapidly we would appreciate some sort of action to enable us to get out again.
May I respectfully request that those of you out there who are similarly affected write to the politicians concerned as they have already had an extended break so perhaps they could make up for lost time and give us our freedom back.
I know a lot of you friends will sympathise with us as fellow e-bikers so as contact details are available online maybe you could join us with support.
Many thanks.
Ted.

 

[Sinjin Smythe]

Good job Ted, I know the greens were vocal about this before issue before and this is why I wrote to them.and it's a quick win taking traffic off the road, freeing up parking spaces, improving air quality and getting people fitter.
I imagine local bike dealers will be applying pressure too as this is the big growth area in cycling in Europe now.

 

[TedG]

I think I said before that we were granted a face to face with Stephen Agnew at Stormont a while back when he was Green leader. To be fair we were treated well and shown around but at the time he admitted that his hands were tied which was true as the place was in shutdown mode. He offered sympathy as he was a genuine cyclist himself but nothing was to become of the meeting.
You writing today may well have ignited our case with them again and if Mr Agnew is still around and about he hopefully will have some influence regarding action.
I was in contact with his secretary for a time after the meeting and I will mail her again in the hope that might pass on to however is now the leader.

 

[flecc]

I know a lot of you friends will sympathise with us as fellow e-bikers so as contact details are available online maybe you could join us with support.
Many thanks.
Ted.

Hi Ted

I've just mailed the Green Party in N.I. in support, please let me know if there is anyone else who could be usefully contacted. Below is the main content of my mail:

"An open appeal to the Green Party in Northern Ireland from a mainland UK resident on behalf of his N.I friends

Unlike in the rest of the UK and the whole of the EU, N.I. residents have for years been denied the legal use of of power assisted cycling to assist with various mobility issues, such as age. Many have previously innocently bought e-bikes not realising they were so discriminated against within the UK, so now have their expensive machines standing idle. Their only option to ride them legally is to get them type approved and registered as motorcycles, but that only presents a whole new range of difficulties and often technical impossibilities.

This situation results from the various absences of the N.I assembly meaning the necessary laws not being adopted. They were the EU two and three wheel type approval legislation 168/2013 which included an exemption (h) for them not being considered motor vehicles, plus the UK's 1983 EAPC regulation as amended 6th April 2015. Although we are now leaving the EU, the UK's recent Great Repeal Bill has written such as the EU's 168/2013 into UK law, so that as well as the simple expedient of adopting the current UK EAPC regulations will correct the NI anomaly.

I appreciate that this might seem a very minor issue at present, but it's important in view of the need for urgent measures to deal with climate change and traffic pollution by rapid adoption of green transport. There is also the factor that many existing N.I. owners are elderly so don't have the time to wait years to be treated fairly in accordance with the rest of the UK."

Signed with full name and address.
.