Non-legal mountain e-bike with good torque and top speed that is under 1500 quid?

[Danidl]

What is your problem exactly? Does it bother you so much that I want a faster e-bike? Perhaps you incorrectly assume I am a road hooligan or some kind.

I just want the option of being able to ride faster; I fail to see the reason why that irritates you.

Hi I don't want to get into personality fights on whether anyone is a hooligan, a killjoy or what ever. Let's stick with facts.

The EU and UK have agreed that ebikes below a certain power and assisted speed are able to get a special exemption from road tax, insurance and licence requirements. Such bikes have a EPAC number and code. Buying and using one of these bikes is legal. There is nothing in law stopping a person cycling at 30 miles per hour on these, but they are not allowed to have electric assistance beyond a maximum of 17miles per hour.

If you purchase or modify a bike to exceed theses limits , it is illegal and one is open to prosecution, and to civil damages, if a third party is hurt.

Some members of this forum are concerned that such a practice will queer the pitch for law abiding citizens, and others don't give a damn.

Whether you think that 17 miles per hour is to low, is a matter of opinion. In other jurisdictions, they have licenced more powerful faster ebikes, but have put other constraints on their use. .. licences, registration. The UK has not as yet done so.
So is a hooligan someone who is reckless, or who deliberately flaunts the law?

 

[minime]

Hi I don't want to get into personality fights on whether anyone is a hooligan, a killjoy or what ever. Let's stick with facts.

The EU and UK have agreed that ebikes below a certain power and assisted speed are able to get a special exemption from road tax, insurance and licence requirements. Such bikes have a EPAC number and code. Buying and using one of these bikes is legal. There is nothing in law stopping a person cycling at 30 miles per hour on these, but they are not allowed to have electric assistance beyond a maximum of 17miles per hour.

If you purchase or modify a bike to exceed theses limits , it is illegal and one is open to prosecution, and to civil damages, if a third party is hurt.

Some members of this forum are concerned that such a practice will queer the pitch for law abiding citizens, and others don't give a damn.

Whether you think that 17 miles per hour is to low, is a matter of opinion. In other jurisdictions, they have licenced more powerful faster ebikes, but have put other constraints on their use. .. licences, registration. The UK has not as yet done so.
So is a hooligan someone who is reckless, or who deliberately flaunts the law?

If I get in an accident while riding an illegal bike, how does that impact law abiding riders like yourself?

So is a hooligan someone who is reckless, or who deliberately flaunts the law?

How am I reckless? Because I want to do 25mph without pedalling furiously as I am currently doing?

Additionally, we all know that most motors that are rated at 250w, are in fact 350w, maybe even more than that. Yet you still ride your "legal" e-bike, thereby deliberately flaunting the law, do you not?

 

[soundwave]

you can do 25mph on a bosch bike mine does watch the video no lights and everything lol

 

[D8ve]

You can ride a legal bike, within the letter of the law.
It would give you good acceleration.

You want to deliberately break the law.
You publicly say I don't care, I want to go fast. when You haven't earned the right.
You don't want to pay for insurance or licensing.
You want to ride where you shouldn't
You say we should help you when you don't listen to advice and shout how you don't care, why should we care?

 

[minime]

As I said, you break the law too, by riding an e-bike with a motor that is greater than 250w but that doesn't bother you in the slightest, perhaps because it is accepted by the wider e-bike community.

Also, I didn't ask for your help specifically. You have been anything but helpful with your combativeness.

 

[D8ve]

It's an open forum. My bike is legal. The motor is rated as 250 watts.
And it's currently in a box. Anyone can say anything here.
You have said you don't want to be legal.
You can't even be discrete.

I try to stay legal. I try to be discrete.
I don't say I think someone is an oxygen thieving twat to avoid offence even it I think so.

 

[Danidl]

If I get in an accident while riding an illegal bike, how does that impact law abiding riders like yourself?



How am I reckless? Because I want to do 25mph without pedalling furiously as I am currently doing?

Additionally, we all know that most motors that are rated at 250w, are in fact 350w, maybe even more than that. Yet you still ride your "legal" e-bike, thereby deliberately flaunting the law, do you not?

Point 1. Does not disturb me in the least whether the English police or English court system prosecute you, I live in another jurisdiction. But can you not see that there are plenty of law abiding citizens in your country who would be scandalised. Accepting a lowering of public standards of behaviour is corrosive.
Point 2. Travelling at 25 miles per hour is not necessarily reckless, but doing so on paths where the mean speed is 10, could well be. Using an electric powered bike, outside the law is reckless, not necessarily dangerous.

Point 3. There have been plenty of postings, some of which I have contributed to, regarding electric motor power. Suffice to say , as I did , that if your bike has a sticker validating it's EPAC code it is legal, and the onus is on the validating authority, not you, to prove conformance.

 

[minime]

This is precisely the reason why I initially said I wanted the e-bike for both on-road and off-road usage. I was being discrete to avoid annoying the easily-annoyed like yourself.

At the same time, I don't want to insult the intelligence of the other users and act as if they are too obtuse to realize my true intentions.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bafang-Mid-Drive-Electric-Bike-Kit-BBS-01-BBS-02-BBS-HD-/332102833566?var=&hash=item4d52df159e:m:mEhDmc__6KyrCBsTZRewK-A

get them to build the batt for it and then you need a bike and the programme cable for the motor.

it will be double what you are asking speed wise but remember the faster you go the bigger the batt will have to be for any sort of distance.

you cant have both

 

[soundwave]

if you crash you best post the video

 

[minime]

Point 1. Does not disturb me in the least whether the English police or English court system prosecute you, I live in another jurisdiction. But can you not see that there are plenty of law abiding citizens in your country who would be scandalised. Accepting a lowering of public standards of behaviour is corrosive.
Point 2. Travelling at 25 miles per hour is not necessarily reckless, but doing so on paths where the mean speed is 10, could well be. Using an electric powered bike, outside the law is reckless, not necessarily dangerous.

Point 3. There have been plenty of postings, some of which I have contributed to, regarding electric motor power. Suffice to say , as I did , that if your bike has a sticker validating it's EPAC code it is legal, and the onus is on the validating authority, not you, to prove conformance.

Why do you assume that I would ride at 25mph on paths where the mean speed is 10mph?

Why not assume that I might decide to ride my e-bike early in the morning, on roads that are mostly empty and where the speed limit for motor vehicles is 50-60mph, when I have good visibility and simply want to accelerate to 30mph and maintain that velocity for half a mile just for the thrill of it?

This is the reason why I was also asking for more info on how to restrict/derestrict the bike at will. Keep it legal for everyday usage but also be able to ride fast on occasion.

 

[minime]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bafang-Mid-Drive-Electric-Bike-Kit-BBS-01-BBS-02-BBS-HD-/332102833566?var=&hash=item4d52df159e:m:mEhDmc__6KyrCBsTZRewK-A

get them to build the batt for it and then you need a bike and the programme cable for the motor.

it will be double what you are asking speed wise but remember the faster you go the bigger the batt will have to be for any sort of distance.

you cant have both

Get whom? Does the seller perform conversions?

 

[soundwave]

no they make custom batts and also sell the motors, you will have to do the convert or brighten bikes on here can do it for you if that is what you want.

http://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/

 

[minime]

no they make custom batts and also sell the motors, you will have to do the convert or brighten bikes on here can do it for you if that is what you want.

http://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/

Wow, thanks for the info soundwave. I'll send them an e-mail. Maybe they can build a new bike for me or convert the Cyclamatic.

Any other reputable businesses out there that do conversions?

 

[Trevormonty]

This is precisely the reason why I initially said I wanted the e-bike for both on-road and off-road usage. I was being discrete to avoid annoying the easily-annoyed like yourself.

At the same time, I don't want to insult the intelligence of the other users and act as if they are too obtuse to realize my true intentions.

Legal EMTBs especially are having hard time being accepted on tracks because public and other riders think they will go at excessive speeds and tear up tracks. People riding overpowered illegal bikes at excessive speeds are half problem. The easiest way to police these people is to ban all ebikes from MTB and cycling tracks.

This is why us riders of legal bikes don't like people that build illegal bikes. If you want to ride a illegal ebike at excessive speeds do it on road. If you become somebody's bonnet ornament don't expect any sympathy from here.

 

[minime]

Legal EMTBs especially are having hard time being accepted on tracks because public and other riders think they will go at excessive speeds and tear up tracks. People riding overpowered illegal bikes at excessive speeds are half problem. The easiest way to police these people is to ban all ebikes from MTB and cycling tracks.

This is why us riders of legal bikes don't like people that build illegal bikes. If you want to ride a illegal ebike at excessive speeds do it on road. If you become somebody's bonnet ornament don't expect any sympathy from here.

Banning ebikes from MTB and cycling tracks is not the easiest way to go. Suppressing the freedom of the majority to ride a legal e-bike because of some law breakers is not sensible at all; that's why there are laws. The sensible option is to prosecute law breakers and make an example of them.

Similarly, there are plenty of motor vehicle drivers who break the speed limit, drive dangerously and yet the motor vehicle is the most common mean of transportation. Should the government ban all motor vehicles on account of a few (actually a lot) law breakers?

 

[danielrlee]

If I get in an accident while riding an illegal bike, how does that impact law abiding riders like yourself?

It doesn't. In the eyes of the law, the illegal bike is a moped, so it doesn't reflect on anyone riding an EAPC in any way whatsoever.

The sensible option is to prosecute law breakers and make an example of them.

If and when the need arises, this is exactly what will happen. Any alternative doomsday theory is simply over reactive nonsense.

In addition, how private land owners (i.e. MTB trail centers) decide to police and enforce their own rules is an entirely separate matter and should not be confused with other legal arguments.

 

[STEVEMANFA]

I think there are a few bikes about that have a switch on so you can have more power for when you are on private land, I don't know any makes but I have seen them for sale on ebay, not sure if this will be any good to you.

 

[danielrlee]

I think there are a few bikes about that have a switch on so you can have more power for when you are on private land, I don't know any makes but I have seen them for sale on ebay, not sure if this will be any good to you.

This doesn't change the legal status of the bike though.

The conclusion of this perennial discussion is always the same. If you make the decision to ride an illegal bike and do so with respect and consideration for other road users, the chance of any attention from the law will be extremely minimal. The risk, however small will still exist though and ends up as a personal decision based on risk vs reward. If by the off-chance you get caught doing the crime, you'll do the time.

All the relevant legal information exists on the forum elsewhere. Surely it would be a nicer place if we just stick to the technical aspects of the OP's question and leave the preaching and bashing at the door.

 

[minime]

This doesn't change the legal status of the bike though.

The conclusion of this perennial discussion is always the same. If you make the decision to ride an illegal bike and do so with respect and consideration for other road users, the chance of any attention from the law will be extremely minimal. The risk, however small will still exist though and ends up as a personal decision based on risk vs reward. If by the off-chance you get caught doing the crime, you'll do the time.

All the relevant legal information exists on the forum elsewhere. Surely it would be a nicer place if we just stick to the technical aspects of the OP's question and leave the preaching and bashing at the door.

Well said Daniel.

The behaviour of some forum members was very disappointing; combativeness, hostility, even name calling but most respondents have been courteous and helpful.