Non-legal mountain e-bike with good torque and top speed that is under 1500 quid?

Hello all

I've posted a few threads the past week asking for all kinds of information on e-bikes (I am a new user) regarding motor wattage, battery specs, etc. and now I am slightly more sure of what I want in an e-bike. Could you recommend a non-legal, mountain e-bike with good torque and top speed that is under 1500 quid?

Thanks

Edited March 4, 20179 yr by minime

Why do you want a non legal bike?, why not get a legal on and fit a dongle

Possibly because there's usually more performance potential in an 'illegal' bike, although doesn't always translate into practice when legal motors are sometimes underrated.

Oxygen S-cross MTB

http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/s-cross-mtb

Tugwell loves his

Why do you want a non legal bike?, why not get a legal on and fit a dongle

What's a dongle? A non-legal e-bike has better acceleration and higher top speed.

Oxygen S-cross MTB

 

http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/s-cross-mtb

 

Tugwell loves his

This bike has a 250w motor so it's road legal, correct?

This bike has a 250w motor so it's road legal, correct?

d8veh says this is one of the fastest production bikes he has ridden and he should know. Tugwell said it went too fast for him.

What's a dongle? A non-legal e-bike has better acceleration and higher top speed.

Not if you do some reading.

You need to do a lot more searching and reading on the forums as all the questions you are asking have all been asked and fully answered before, many times.

If you search about the Oxygen bike you would see what it is capable of

This bike has a 250w motor so it's road legal, correct?

Not legal since it an S class bike, assisting to 28 mph. They usually have 350 watt motors, though can have up to 500 watts where they are legal.

.

d8veh says this is one of the fastest production bikes he has ridden and he should know. Tugwell said it went too fast for him.

there isn't magic in e-bikes, we all know that.

If you ride a derestricted bike against road legal bikes, then your bike is easily the fastest.

What you get at the wheels is the product of voltage, current and conversion yield. Higher voltage, higher current and higher yield give you more Watts at the wheels. That is usually translated to bigger capacity battery, higher current controller and bigger motors.

It's all very well saying that you want "better acceleration and top speed", but as there's such a wide gamut of possibilities, you really need to quantify what kind of performance you are looking for and for what kind of usage scenario.

What we know:

• Budget: £1500
  
• You're not interested in any kind of DIY solution.
  
• You want something suitable for both on and off-road usage.
  

The first two points mean that your performance potential is going to be somewhat limited. £1500 will only get you so much with an off-the-shelf bike and whatever you buy, it'll likely perform similarly to any other s-class electric bike within budget. The only way you will achieve a properly high level of performance is if you either raise your budget, or go the DIY route.

Moving on, in order for people to give you suitable recommendations, can you elaborate a little about what your planned off-road usage will be?

It's all very well saying that you want "better acceleration and top speed", but as there's such a wide gamut of possibilities, you really need to quantify what kind of performance you are looking for and for what kind of usage scenario.

 

What we know:

• Budget: £1500
  
• You're not interested in any kind of DIY solution.
  
• You want something suitable for both on and off-road usage.
  

The first two points mean that your performance potential is going to be somewhat limited. £1500 will only get you so much with an off-the-shelf bike and whatever you buy, it'll likely perform similarly to any other s-class electric bike within budget. The only way you will achieve a properly high level of performance is if you either raise your budget, or go the DIY route.

 

Moving on, in order for people to give you suitable recommendations, can you elaborate a little about what your planned off-road usage will be?

I intent to ride the e-bike on public roads. I only mentioned the "off-road" usage so that I am not asked to justify my decision to ride an illegal bike on public roads.

My current e-bike, the Cyclamatic CX1, is ok but I'd like something with better acceleration and higher top speed. Pedalease sells an 1500w e-bike with a 48v, 17ah battery for 825 pounds. Why shouldn't I get that one over the Oxygen bike which is twice as expensive if both of them have similar performance?

What they say is you get what you pay for, so I'd check all the bikes out that's in your budget first.

That's not entirely accurate. In most cases, you pay more because of the brand, not because the quality is better.

In any case, the price of an e-bike is a function of many variables. I don't even know what the variables are, let alone the relationship between them. so it is difficult to decide what to buy. This is why I make generalized statements like "good acceleration and greater top speed than my current e-bike".

Edited March 4, 20179 yr by minime

In most cases, you pay more because of the brand, not because the quality is better.

You pay more for the better components and also for the reputation of the brand and the distribution costs. A basic suspension fork costs about $25, a good one, $60, a basic V-brake costs less than $5, a good cable operated disc brake costs $10-$15 and a sensored hydraulic brake costs at least $40. Distribution cost is about 25%-30% but you do get to see the bike before buying, local advice, test rides and two year after sales services for that. If you take a £1,400 bike, the distribution costs about £400-420. The cost of the more expensive bike compares very well against the cheaper bike on component basis.

You pay more for the better components and also for the reputation of the brand and the distribution costs. A basic suspension fork costs about $25, a good one, $60, a basic V-brake costs less than $5, a good cable operated disc brake costs $10-$15 and a sensored hydraulic brake costs at least $40. Distribution cost is about 25%-30% but you do get to see the bike before buying, local advice, test rides and two year after sales services for that. If you take a £1,400 bike, the distribution costs about £400-420. The cost of the more expensive bike compares very well against the cheaper bike on component basis.

My Cyclamatic CX1 cost £450, a far cry from the £1500+ that bikes of similar specs cost. It has an one year warranty and support from thesportshq has been good so far. I don't understand what more does a company behind the more expensive e-bikes (of similar specs) has to offer.

Also, I don't know how to assess the quality of the components used in a product. There is some correlation between brand reputation and component quality but the price difference is unjustified in my opinion.

I don't understand what more does a company behind the more expensive e-bikes (of similar specs) has to offer

1) Their bikes have to be distinctive.

It takes a lot of effort to make a good looking bike.

That usually involves the brand;s own design effort. You will also have to be sure that you are going to sell a lot because the factories won't take your order for special components otherwise.

2) Their bikes have to be reliable.

The dealers won't touch them if they are not.

3) They have to pay for expensive promotion.

The dealers won't touch them if the brand don't show up at trade shows.

4) They have to have reps.

They cost a lot of money.

Also, I don't know how to assess the quality of the components used in a product.

Don't worry about it. You only have to see the bikes in the flesh.

Not legal since it an S class bike, assisting to 28 mph. They usually have 350 watt motors, though can have up to 500 watts where they are legal.

.

It's not an S-class bike. It just has S in its name. It is legal as sold, but there's a secret code to derestrict it, which would make it illegal.

1) Their bikes have to be distinctive.

It takes a lot of effort to make a good looking bike.

That usually involves the brand;s own design effort. You will also have to be sure that you are going to sell a lot because the factories won't take your order for special components otherwise.

 

2) Their bikes have to be reliable.

The dealers won't touch them if they are not.

 

3) They have to pay for expensive promotion.

The dealers won't touch them if the brand don't show up at trade shows.

 

4) They have to have reps.

They cost a lot of money.

 

 

 

Don't worry about it. You only have to see the bikes in the flesh.

So the Cyclamatic is less expensive because it has a big company behind doing the manufacturing? What about the Pedalease? How come their 1500w bike costs 800 pounds?

Also, why see the bikes in the flesh? What good will that do?

ow come their 1500w bike costs 800 pounds?

If I had to sell it, I can get it made in China for $500.

So the Cyclamatic is less expensive because it has a big company behind doing the manufacturing? What about the Pedalease? How come their 1500w bike costs 800 pounds?

 

Also, why see the bikes in the flesh? What good will that do?

You need to stop paying attention to published 'ratings' as an indicator of performance. A 1500W rated bike will not give six times the performance of a 250W rated bike, at least not 99% of the time.

When assessing performance, a good starting point is to find out how much power is delivered to the motor. The two bits of information to look at are the battery voltage and the controller current limit. If you multiply these together, you will get the total system power, e.g. 48V x 25A = 1200W.

Once you know the actual power delivered from the controller, you can then consider the effect this has on the motor featured in a given system.

Also, I don't know how to assess the quality of the components used in a product. There is some correlation between brand reputation and component quality but the price difference is unjustified in my opinion.

Quality of components is a difficult one. The only components that I've found on an electric bike that gives problems are brakes and bottom bracket bearings. Most bikes now have cartridge bottom brackets that don't give problems, but I think that some of the cheapest ones still use loose balls, which don't last long. The brakes are a bit easier to understand. Cable brakes wear quickly and need frequent adjustment to keep working properly. Hydraulic ones work consistently and reliably.

For other components, higher spec and more expensive usually means lighter, except suspension, where higher quality and more expensive mean that it works better - less choppy and smoother action. The cheap components generally are perfectly adequate to give thousands of trouble-free miles. In fact they may be more robust than some of the expensive ones.

Quality simply means that you'll be happy with it. It has nothing to do with cost, design or specification. If it works how you want it to, you have quality.

This was a really good quality bike as far as I was concerned. I rescued it from a skip and gave the guy £5 for it, then spent £40 on hydraulic brakes and £10 on a new BB, fitted a kit and did 1000 miles on winter roads with snow, ice, salt and everything without even oiling the chain. After that I sold it to a forum member via Ebay. I'd love to know what happened after that::

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Bikes%20I%20Built/20140403_151444_zpsc87fdc69.jpg

This was a really good quality bike as far as I was concerned.

If I fitted the same shocks on my bikes, Wisper's David and RobF will be on my case permanently.

For the pedalease 1500w bike, the battery is 48v, 17ah. I don't know the controller current limit.

Similarly, the the Cyclamatic, the batter is 36v, 10ah and a 250w motor. Don't the controller current limit for this one either.

Also, I've looked at plenty of specs at e-bikes websites and they never mention controller current limit.

I intent to ride the e-bike on public roads. I only mentioned the "off-road" usage so that I am not asked to justify my decision to ride an illegal bike on public roads.

 

My current e-bike, the Cyclamatic CX1, is ok but I'd like something with better acceleration and higher top speed. Pedalease sells an 1500w e-bike with a 48v, 17ah battery for 825 pounds. Why shouldn't I get that one over the Oxygen bike which is twice as expensive if both of them have similar performance?

It's called a motorbike, anything from 250cc up should do the job.