non-folder to fit in the boot?

[Dai Gleddau]

Still researching which ebike to get....
I'm looking for an ebike of shortish overall length (about 175cm max), so with front-wheel removed, it will fit in the car. For lots of reasons, I don't want to have to use a bike-rack.
Roughest riding I do is forest trails (not serious mountain biking). I think 26" wheels is about the smallest I'd tolerate.
So far, most bikes I've looked at are a touch too long.
And of course, I don't want to spend too much!
Any ideas appreciated (except for "get a bigger car!")?

 

[Az.]

The bike I used cost £5 and I found it in a skip.

And yet you ride full suspension e-bike with Brook saddle, hydraulic disc brakes, Deore XT derailer. Not everybody is so lucky to find bike like that in a ditch.

There is also aspect of aesthetics.

 

[saneagle]

And yet you ride full suspension e-bike with Brook saddle, hydraulic disc brakes, Deore XT derailer. Not everybody is so lucky to find bike like that in a ditch.

There is also aspect of aesthetics.

Ì chose my bike and its components to make the "perfect" ebike. Most people aren't interested in perfection - they're happy to ride bikes with crank-drive drives and other non-ideal parts and systems. I bet you're happy to ride a bike that's not the same as mine too!

 

[Dai Gleddau]

Struggling to find a second-hand bargain as a donor for a rear hub kit.
So if I need to buy new... any thoughts on a Schwinn Surge...26" wheels (anything bigger won't fit in the boot), alloy-frame (steel would be too heavy to man-handle with the added hub motor), and disc brakes. Currently available at around £170 inc delivery.
... no serious off-roading, just tarmac and tame forest-trails.

 

[RollingChunder]

Struggling to find a second-hand bargain as a donor for a rear hub kit.
So if I need to buy new... any thoughts on a Schwinn Surge...26" wheels (anything bigger won't fit in the boot), alloy-frame (steel would be too heavy to man-handle with the added hub motor), and disc brakes. Currently available at around £170 inc delivery.
... no serious off-roading, just tarmac and tame forest-trails.

Firstly, as it is one size (and doesn't say what size that is), you need to check if the battery will fit in the triangle and if the bike fits you. It's a cheap bike which means you will likely need to do some upgrades to it. Swap brakes for hydraulic, add mudguards, potentially swap shifter for a thumb shift as grip shifters are big and get in the way of the throttle if you have one. It also doesn't mention what gearing it has but it looks low which will mean clown pedalling at 15mph but I could be wrong.

It might be worth picking up a second hand cheap bike as they go for £30 - £50 for a similar spec and then buy all of your upgrades new. If you find one with rusted forks they might let it go for <£10 and you could buy some nicer forks for it.

Or you could look at something at £200 second hand and will have all these upgrades already.

 

[thelarkbox]

Couriers charge circa £50 to deliver a cycle.. Might be worth looking into and contacting ebay sellers not local asking if they would be prepared to box up for the courier, the service i almost used would deliver a box and packing materials 1 day and pick up the boxed bike a day or so later this service cost £60-70 iirc.. I didnt end up using it so cant recommend etc.. see utube for 10 minute bike packing vids..

 

[throwawaychap]

I think the hilly tracks of wales are a bit of a push with a 250w 36v front wheel.

I'd suggest a rear wheel or a crank drive. The DWG22C has much more torque and gets me up any hill here in the Peaks. Front wheel can be quick release then.

The other thing I like about my hub gear is the triple chainset. Yes, you don't need a triple with a crank drive, but I like to switch it off sometimes and have a normal bike. When I have flattened my battery in the past I've been glad I had a triple.

Sorry for butting in the conversation; but have you any idea what the DWG22C motor's derestricted top speed is?

For some reason I think this motor is 48v 201rpm native and not a 36v 201rpm motor overvolted to 48v. Since it is said to be built 'for torque', I guess it tops out at 18mph depending on wheel size?

I'm still just doing research but I reckon it might be valuable information for other forum readers as well.

Thank you.

 

[Woosh]

Sorry for butting in the conversation; but have you any idea what the DWG22C motor's derestricted top speed is?

if derestricted, all the Woosh hub motors can do 21mph on 26" tyres, 22mph on 700C tyres. A lot of younger riders can pedal much faster than that on wheels with cassette, the maximum speed is whatever you can pedal at but beyond the speed that I indicated, assistance from the motor is reducing fast.

 

[chris667]

Sorry for butting in the conversation; but have you any idea what the DWG22C motor's derestricted top speed is?

My understanding is not much more than the restricted speed. All I know is I can get up any hill in the Peak District on it.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Struggling to find a second-hand bargain as a donor for a rear hub kit.
So if I need to buy new... any thoughts on a Schwinn Surge...26" wheels (anything bigger won't fit in the boot), alloy-frame (steel would be too heavy to man-handle with the added hub motor), and disc brakes. Currently available at around £170 inc delivery.
... no serious off-roading, just tarmac and tame forest-trails.

The same bike advertised on Amazon, says the "one size" frame is 17". If you are 5'10" I would expect that to be a tad on the the tight side. Sports Direct didn't let you return bikes to local stores either. You can have them delivered to a local store, but returns (at your cost) have to go back to their warehouse. Avoid!?

This might have been a better choice .... If you MUST have new....



Even comes with hydraulic brakes... Out of stock online, but might be available in a local store. Not got 26" wheels though. Slim tyres (Marathons) will make them seem like 26" wheels....

You've already had some good advice on this project, and the couple of bits I would offer are:

You will appreciate the weight of an alloy bike with an alloy rigid front fork, if you are hoofing the bike in an out of a car boot. The Suntour XCT fork on the front of my Kona, is a significant weight, (pushing 3kgs) and I can't wait to get rid of it. A light front end is necessary for anything other than road work IMO, because uneven ground can be a disaster if your front wheel wants to dig in. I'm another who would suggest a front hub motor on an offroad bike would not be prudent.

Finding a used 26" MTB in a Large, and in good serviceable condition shouldn't be that difficult. You will need a Large I would think, and the bigger the triangle, the better anyway. If you are determined to get a rear hub (a solution I personally favour) then having a 'practice' project with a used bike in good nick makes sense. If it doesn't work out, or you want to invest in a more exotic bit of kit when you are happy with your first try, you losses are minimised. Could be, you get a used bike for £0 from Freecycle.

Given your apparent need for wheel removal, I'm not sure you will find a hub motor the best solution for your project. I'm not a fan of mid-drives, because they are basically, super-ugly. (Aesthetically displeasing.) But, a mid drive would seem like a better solution for someone who needs to remove wheels to get their bike in the boot of their car? If you find size, or weight, demands that you are removing a rear hub motor every time you travel with the bike in your car, I would expect you to get pretty fed up with faffing around with connectors, and possibly re-zip tying cables away from hazards on your ride.

It would seem the bike size, followed by bike weight, are your two main challenges. Nothing stopping you putting 26" wheels on a new 27.5" wheeled bike. You plan to replace the back wheel with a hub motor anyway? A 26" front wheel with disk hub will be very cheap - assuming you have to buy one. Stick with alloy frames, possibly a rigid front fork, and your weight issue will be minimised.

Something like this?



Sold bikes in vaguely your area....

 

[Dai Gleddau]

The same bike advertised on Amazon, says the "one size" frame is 17". If you are 5'10" I would expect that to be a tad on the the tight side. Sports Direct didn't let you return bikes to local stores either. You can have them delivered to a local store, but returns (at your cost) have to go back to their warehouse. Avoid!?

This might have been a better choice .... If you MUST have new....

View attachment 55996

Even comes with hydraulic brakes... Out of stock online, but might be available in a local store. Not got 26" wheels though. Slim tyres (Marathons) will make them seem like 26" wheels....

You've already had some good advice on this project, and the couple of bits I would offer are:

You will appreciate the weight of an alloy bike with an alloy rigid front fork, if you are hoofing the bike in an out of a car boot. The Suntour XCT fork on the front of my Kona, is a significant weight, (pushing 3kgs) and I can't wait to get rid of it. A light front end is necessary for anything other than road work IMO, because uneven ground can be a disaster if your front wheel wants to dig in. I'm another who would suggest a front hub motor on an offroad bike would not be prudent.

Finding a used 26" MTB in a Large, and in good serviceable condition shouldn't be that difficult. You will need a Large I would think, and the bigger the triangle, the better anyway. If you are determined to get a rear hub (a solution I personally favour) then having a 'practice' project with a used bike in good nick makes sense. If it doesn't work out, or you want to invest in a more exotic bit of kit when you are happy with your first try, you losses are minimised. Could be, you get a used bike for £0 from Freecycle.

Given your apparent need for wheel removal, I'm not sure you will find a hub motor the best solution for your project. I'm not a fan of mid-drives, because they are basically, super-ugly. (Aesthetically displeasing.) But, a mid drive would seem like a better solution for someone who needs to remove wheels to get their bike in the boot of their car? If you find size, or weight, demands that you are removing a rear hub motor every time you travel with the bike in your car, I would expect you to get pretty fed up with faffing around with connectors, and possibly re-zip tying cables away from hazards on your ride.

It would seem the bike size, followed by bike weight, are your two main challenges. Nothing stopping you putting 26" wheels on a new 27.5" wheeled bike. You plan to replace the back wheel with a hub motor anyway? A 26" front wheel with disk hub will be very cheap - assuming you have to buy one. Stick with alloy frames, possibly a rigid front fork, and your weight issue will be minimised.

Something like this?

View attachment 55997

Sold bikes in vaguely your area....

View attachment 55998

View attachment 55999

Thanks FastFreddy2... more food for thought.
It's only front-wheel I'll want to remove to get bike to fit in the car (important dimension is back of rear-tyre to front fork, which most likely means a 26" wheel bike). I think I've been convinced now that RWD is the answer. And want a biggish battery (to avoid range anxiety, volt-drop under-load, and longevity of range), 500Wh+ should do it. Don't actually need an MTB since use will be leisurely rides on road, cycle-paths, forest-tracks etc. so will widen my choice of bike style. And I think I can manage a max weight for manhandling of 20kg (battery removed).
It's now just deciding whether to do a conversion or get new/used complete ebike... all depends on what deals I can find out there... want to spend as little as possible of course, but with an absolute (self-imposed) ceiling of £1k. So I'll keep looking

 

[RollingChunder]

20kg

Ally MTB conversion will be well under that with the battery and front wheel removed. Get a large (19"+) frame aluminium MTB with disc brakes second hand. Go cheap for your first one so you don't panic about filing the dropouts, spreading the stays and drilling the frame for rivnuts. Will come in well under a grand and will have a much better spec than anything off the shelf <£1k.

 

[Woosh]

take a 10kg road bike, add a TSDZ2 (3.8kgs) and a 480WH bag battery (1.2kgs), a folding handlebar and you'll get an 15kg-16kg e-bike capable of 50-55 miles on assisted riding which is easy to carry up the stairs on your shoulder, can be kept in a corridor, and costs under a grand.
Alternatively, buy a Woosh Faro. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?faro

 

[Dai Gleddau]

Just in case you're interested where I ended up...was all set to do a conversion project, but living out in remote West Wales was struggling to find locally a suitable (and cheap enough) donor bike. Then another post on here pointed me to some excellent deals on new ebikes. So I've just aquired a new Wisper 705 (cadence version, 575Wh). Although a touch heavier than I had planned, I can manage OK to get it in and out of the boot. Just been on a 15 mile ride through the hilly forest and it is excellent. In fact I'm finding the step-thru/sit-up riding position a lot more comfortable than my old MTB-style push-bike.
And thanks again everyone for your advice and opinions

 

[chris667]

Excellent choice!