Non-drag hub motors

[eHomer]

I'm getting really mixed up (as I often do) because there's two people posting on this thread.

Sorry, I'll keep clear.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

No, it's OK. It's just me: Memory like a sieve.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks Dave, sorry Pat, I'll try not to jam the wavelength here !

So this is a question from me, eHomer, so one last question before I order from BMS:

You have identified my motor as the Bafang SWXB, which is currently controlled by hall effect (3 plus 5 wires).

Going by one of the replies made to Pat, I think my order to BMS should be:

one S06S 250W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller for 36v at £16
one S-LCD1 E-Bike LCD Meter for 36/48v at £17

The SO6S controller does say "For 250Watts hall sensor motors"

Will that work with my Bafang SWXB 36v 250w motor and the original pedal sensor and the thumb throttle ?

I noticed that the combined BMS product line for the controller and panel ( 36V250W Sine Wave Controller with KM5S LCD Meter - BMSBATTERY ) does specifically say " For sensorless motors. It is not suitable for hall sensor motors"

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The S06S should be the right controller for the sensored SWX motor, but i haven't heard of anybody trying it yet, so there's always a very small risk, although if it were me, I'd go for it.

A sensored motor becomes a sensorless one when you leave the sensors unplugged, so I don't understand that statement from BMSBattery but I can understand it the other way round: a controller for sensored motor not working sensorless.

 

[eHomer]

Ok thanks, I'll give it a go then.

No recriminations though if the plan goes pear shaped, all free advice gratefully received with no guarantees implied or expected !

I'll report back on success or failure and new sound levels in a couple of weeks (hopefully !)

 

[eHomer]

BMS have just confirmed dispatch of my order with a tracking number.

Not long now hopefully...

 

[GT3]

I used BMS recently, paid for the DHL service. Email with tracking order received Friday, I checked the tracking website on Monday morning and it had been signed for in our goods inward.

Collected HK, 2 a.m. Sat, delivered Birmingham 8 a.m. Monday!

 

[eHomer]

I used BMS recently, paid for the DHL service. Email with tracking order received Friday, I checked the tracking website on Monday morning and it had been signed for in our goods inward.

Collected HK, 2 a.m. Sat, delivered Birmingham 8 a.m. Monday!

Yes indeed, a very fast service from China.

The parts arrived this morning, two days after they acknowledged dispatch !

I'm sorting out the wiring at the moment and have come across one small problem.

This SO6S connection diagram has a line socket for a "speed sensor", which my current set up did not have.




I see the BMS website does list them, for only just over a pound, but I guess I'll suffer on the postage. Anyone now buying the controller and display needs to remember to order it at the same time.

Speed Sensor - BMSBATTERY

Presumably it's to give the speed readout on the controller, though I thought they'd be able to get that from the sensing in the motor itself, directly from the revs.

I wondered if I could adapt the sensor from a simple bike speedo, though they only have two wires, whereas the BMS one has three ?

I'm hoping it'll work when I get it wired up anyway, even without the speed sensor.

I'll report everything back here as I find things out...

 

[patpatbut]

Yes indeed, a very fast service from China.

The parts arrived this morning, two days after they acknowledged dispatch !

I'm sorting out the wiring at the moment and have come across one small problem.

This SO6S connection diagram has a line socket for a "speed sensor", which my current set up did not have.

View attachment 6380


I see the BMS website does list them, for only just over a pound, but I guess I'll suffer on the postage. Anyone now buying the controller and display needs to remember to order it at the same time.

Speed Sensor - BMSBATTERY

Presumably it's to give the speed readout on the controller, though I thought they'd be able to get that from the sensing in the motor itself, directly from the revs.

I wondered if I could adapt the sensor from a simple bike speedo, though they only have two wires, whereas the BMS one has three ?

I'm hoping it'll work when I get it wired up anyway, even without the speed sensor.

I'll report everything back here as I find things out...

Hi eHomer,

I have 2 spare speed sensors (ordered for backup), I could send one to you for £5 p+p

Btw, I have also received the square wave controller for my brompton. Hope I have time to test it this weekend

As my eDahon went dead and I will take a chance to replace the KU65 to sine wave controller. Hope it all works out.


Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm pretty sure that it'll work with a two-wire speed sensor off an old cycle computer if you have one. Connect the wires to the black and the white wires of the speed sensor connector.

 

[patpatbut]

I'm pretty sure that it'll work with a two-wire speed sensor off an old cycle computer if you have one. Connect the wires to the black and the white wires of the speed sensor connector.

Hi Dave,

Just wondering what is the extra wire for? The speed sensor I received has three wires like in the diagram.
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The three wire sensors have a 5v supply (red) because it's a hall sensor switch, as the magnet passes, it switches on to join the white and the black wires. The cycle computer ones use a reed switch that does the same, but doesn't need a 5v supply. The brake switches work the same.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks for the very quick replies again.

I'll try Dave's suggestion first, but if there is any problem, I'll take up Pat's kind offer to buy one of the spares.

I'm still busy tapping out the wiring loom on my bike to incorporate it into the new controller setup.

Success or failure will be announced shortly !

I must say, I do like the new control panel, much nicer than the original I had with just leds.

 

[eHomer]

I've tried temporarily connecting the controller, panel, and motor, but can't get any response from the motor at all.

I joined the three main wires and the five hall sensors, colour for colour.

The control panel plugs in to a dedicated socket, (5 wires).

I connected the throttle and the pedal sensor.

No connections yet to the brakes, or the speed sensor.

The panel powers up ok with no fault numbers, and it can be manipulated ok, power level, mileage etc..

Not a peep out of the motor though, either by throttle or pedal sensor or both.

The colours on my throttle and pedal sensor were slightly different to the new controller tails, I connected them thus:

throttle red to orange, black to black, blue to white

pedal sensor brown to red, yellow to white, black to black

All suggestions and ideas gratefully received !

 

[patpatbut]

Have you tried to hold the down button?

It triggers walking speed mode. This could help to test the connection with the motor.

You do not need to connect the rest to test it.

So just LCD panel, controller, motor and battery.

Pat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That wiring is correct. On some LCD panels, throttle only works on level zero. Whatever you do, don't use full-throttle until it works in case the phase sequence isn't correct, which can blow the FETs in the controller.
Does the fixed 6km function work by holding down the down button for a long time? It stops when you release the button.
Check again that the phase and hall wires colours match.

 

[eHomer]

Eureka !!

Thanks for the super fast responses.

I tried holding the down button, and the flashing man appeared ok, but the motor still didn't budge.

I then checked my connections, and the colours were correct.

My original setup with the non sine wave controller had a very neat wiring loom with waterproof line plugs and sockets. I've tapped it out with a meter to work out what colours go to each of the original sockets.

There's a very neat rubber plug and socket by the front wheel motor with three large pins and five smaller pins, carrying all of the motor connections in one neat plug and socket about 12mm diameter. I wanted to retain that, as it will make puncture repairs much easier and quicker.

It's quite a tight push fit to be waterproof. I found I hadn't pushed it in hard enough, because it then started up and worked perfectly, with power assist or throttle.

Thanks for the suggestions, the walking pace mode clinched it, proving that the throttle and pedal sensor connections were a red herring, forcing me to check the basics again.

It does sound quieter, with less buzzing, but I'll be able to confirm that when I take it for a spin tomorrow.

The only connection left now is to try my two wire speed sensor.


What a great forum this is, instant help, just when you need it, thanks.

 

[patpatbut]

Good to see it is working now for you.

I am setting up the square wave controller for my brompton and sine wave controller for my Dahon jack this weekend. Hope everything goes as planned

Let's see how they perform and report back.

Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I look forward to the results. In particular, can you check how warm the controllers get, which gives some indication of efficiency.

 

[eHomer]

I've just got back from one of my regular 20 mile rides, using the new sine wave controller and panel.

It's fairly flat terrain (Norfolk), but I do weigh 15 stone.

I used mostly assist mode 2 or 3 (out of 5), and was able to easily maintain an average of 14 to 15 mph. The temperature was 26c, and it was quite refreshing, the cooling breeze easily overriding the effort used.

After the ride, the controller was just slightly warm, as was the motor.

There's still a fair bit of noise, but it's quite a different sound, with no vibration, which the original square wave controller seemed to make.

A good result for around £60, the motor seems more powerful, easily reaching 18mph on the flat, with no apparent increase in battery consumption.

The control panel is really good, worth the upgrade in it's own right. Very large clear digits and with a backlight option. Much better than any of the bike computers I've tried.

Thanks for the tip off about the sine wave controllers, the whole bike seems more responsive, even with the same Bafang 250w 36v motor.